ORACLES & PROTECTORS READINGS

[Vajraprotector]

There are many people who are curious about oracles in Tibetan Buddhism. I'm particularly interested so I'd like to start the thread about oracles and welcome everybody to share their information here.


The emphasis on oracles in Tibetan Buddhism is often confused with shamanism, but oracles and shamans are quite different.

An oracle is a spirit who speaks through a medium. It is channeling. Shamans, found in Siberia, Turkey, Africa, etc., are people who enter a trance in which they go to different realms and speak to various spirits, usually the spirits of ancestors. The spirits give them answers to various questions. When the shamans come out of trance, they deliver the message from the ancestors.

In contrast, a medium usually has no memory whatsoever of what the oracle said through him or her. Oracles became associated with protectors. The Nechung oracle is also the protector called Nechung.

A trace of shamanism, however, is reflected in a division of things as being on, above and below the earth, which is prevalent in Bon material and then came into Buddhism.

Buddha taught a tremendous amount on many topics. Wherever Buddhism went in Asia, people emphasized elements that resonated with their culture. There is mention of pure lands in Indian Buddhism but it was not emphasized.

The Chinese, who had the Daoist (Taoist) idea of going to the Western land of the immortals, put tremendous emphasis on the pure lands and expanded it tremendously. Thus, we get pure land Buddhism. It is one of the most significant Chinese Buddhist schools.

Likewise, within Indian Buddhism, we do find discussion of protectors, of various spirits, offering pujas and so on, but the Tibetans expanded these elements tremendously because it was in their culture.


Taken from: Bon and Tibetan Buddhism, Dr. Alexander Berzin
Amsterdam, Holland, December 23, 2001
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en..._buddhism.html

[honeydakini]

My understanding is that oracles who take trances of Protectors have to go through far more vigorous training than any other oracles / mediums who take trance of lesser beings - such as spirits or land deities.

I'm wondering if anyone might have more information as to what kind of training is necessary for someone to become an oracle and what the training serves to do? Not that I want to become an oracle! but it would be interesting to learn what one has to go through in order to channel such highly enlightened beings. It would also help us understand and see clearly the distinct difference between channelling spirits - which we may have no control over - versus taking trance of enlightened beings with control.

[Geronimo]

Kunten Lama was trained by H.H.Zong Rinpoche.
According to Dr. Bernis, Domo Geshe Rinpoche once had a Yak driver he used to speak with the Dharmapala.
Once again, use your common sense, like Buddha suggested on any advice to realize for yourself and not rely only on his words.

[thor]

One of the requirements is that an oracle has to have the blessings of the Lama in order to channel the higher deities. I understand that the training is painful and the oracles will scream for months during the training period. I have heard it described as pouring boiling hot oil down your central channel - that's what it's supposed to feel like when the deities start entering. It all starts with the lower deities entering first upon the Lama's invocation. Over time, the lower deities clear the channels in preparation for the higher deities to enter ... and finally, when the oracle is sufficiently 'pure', Namkar Barzin, Kache Marpo and finally Lord Dorje Shugden himself come. The lama may have to perform certain rituals and blessings to enable the oracles to speak clearly. That comes later though.

Without the lama's blessings to open the oracle's channels, he/she may still channel but who know what is coming thru??!!

[a friend]

My twopence about oracles.

Thom, thank you for your answer about the oracles.
About Domo Geshe Rinpoche´s oracles, I don´t know that the one you mention was a yak driver, but he certainly was a lay person with the usual complications of family life. I never heard that he suffered the torments described by Dulzin. Other oracles I know of, never heard either of them being tormented in that way. They do experience some physical discomfort but not tortures, that I know of. But every individual is different no doubt, so the ones described by Dulzin may have gone through those painful preparations.

What I know is that they do not need any type of Dharma realizations to become an oracle, which does not preclude that certain oracles might have them. Certain behavior rules are adviced, but this is very general, not like vows that are a rule for every oracle, probably it´s a Lama that decides upon their conduct to follow. If they are monks no doubt they have the monks' vows but this has nothing to do with their oracle status.

I think they have certain karma, maybe some personal desire or promise to become an oracle from previous lives, plus some physical characteristics that allow the non human beings to take their bodies to express themselves. Oracles are not conscious when they are in trance, they do not have the slightest clue as of what´s going on. I also know that some of them are not able to talk when they start being oracles, so the deities or other beings are forced to answer only simple questions that they can answer like yes or no. With the familiarity develops the possibility to give also their speech to the beings.

It´s extremely important that an experienced Lama be present when an oracle is in trance, otherwise there can be lots of mistakes from the people listening to it or interpreting what the oracle is saying.

Last but not least, my Lama told us that oracles were not to be followed as if they were not going to make mistakes, because they do make mistakes.

Another thing, he told us that it was exceedingly rare that our King came to an oracle, people think that he came, but in general he sends somebody from his entourage.

[iloveds]

Can anyone share how an oracle is chosen? Do people volunteer for this type of thing? Is it spontaneous? can it be taken away once you are an oracle? Do you lose your life so to speak if you become an oracle?

I can imagine its not a very publicly known position, and it opens you up to much public service that you literally not only give your body, but also your life to the position.

Ultimately its to benefit others so that is the main point of an oracle, so if anyone knows some background in this it would be nice to know.

[a friend]

Dear Iloveds,

There are no rules. Every oracle has its own story. There used to be one of those stories in the front page of this website, about the old Chogyan Dulzin Kuten Lama, let me look for it. Ok, it´s here, it´s very interesting reading:
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1127
or maybe like this, sorry I'm not sure which type of link it is:
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1127

[Geronimo]

a friend is quite accurate and clear with her answers and this statement caused me to think,
"Another thing, he told us that it was exceedingly rare that our King came to an oracle, people think that he came, but in general he sends somebody from his entourage." I was reminded of the kindnesses of our Protector to allow the First Monastery dedicated to Je'T'Song Khapa's monastery and Protected Forever by the Dharmapala Shri Dorje Shugden,The Supreme Protector of the Dharma, that Kunten Lama guided and trained by H.H.Kyabje Zong Rinpoche since childhood channelled Our Protector directly for the benefit of the sentient beings striving to establish the dharma in the New World. The Land of the Red Men, as Lord Buddha predicted. Lord Shugden did manifest clearly within the Oracle Kunten Lama under the guidance of Gonsar Tulku. Coincidentally it is Gonsar Tulku Rinpoche referred to as the 'others' by Lama Zopa as diverting the training of Trijang Rinpoche. I cannot imagine a more qualified Teacher for Trijang Rinpoche than Gonsar Tulku. I realized that Lama Zopa is sour grapes royalty lama and just another mouthpiece for the TGIE's agenda to promote the Dalia Lama as the Supreme Head Of Buddhism and all the schools. One World Lama! 
So, I have little to say about the FMPT agendas other than they have fallen off 'The Ladder'.
    I know that distancing oneself from the future exposure of these Mahayanna Rebels, who tempt fate by their attempts to undermine the dharma in the wish to destroy the Lineages might become a position they wish they had taken before this Dalia Lama is exposed before the world will be damaging to us all.
That is the way the cookie crumbles.
Our Lineage is 100% Kosher and they know it, we are fully supported within the kanjur and tanjur teachings and commentaries.One Public Debate would put all of this trash to rest. Just one would destroy any postion and words the Dalia Lama has slung at Lord Shugden and his devoted.His Self Righteous position reveals his underlying fear of being exposed for the murder of Tulku Dragpa Gyalsthen.
 I know that prayers and protection allow one to safely communicate with the Protector Light to guide each and everyone of us.
I never heard of anyone suffering due to channeling the Protector.
Maybe, it was some other oracle for a lesser
 Diety.Never did Kunten Lama express pain and suffering when being the Oracle for the Dharampala.
Never!
In fact  Channelling is quite painless and I cannot imagine that the Protector would inflict pain on anyone.

[Geronimo]

One of Gonsar Tulku's emmanations as Yeshe Yang (ye shes dbyangs) was a lay disciple of Padmasambhava, counted among the twenty-five disciples (rje ’bangs nyer lnga). He is credited with transcribing many of Padmasambhava’s treasures, and concealing many of them himself, thus earning his name Ba (sba, conceal) Yeshe Yang. He is said to have received the knowledge of the secret script directly from the dakinis, having traveled to their realm in a state of meditation.

He lived for a number of years at forested mountainsides with Sogpo Lhapel (sog po lha dpal), when one day he flew into the sky and disappeared.
I believe Gonsar Tulku, who provided shelter and education for Kyabje Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche is immeasurably qualified as his Tutor, contrary to what Lama Zopa may think.

[WisdomBeing]

I read that to be an oracle, one has to go through immense training as in retreats, to purify the body because our human bodies are like the sewer to the enlightened beings. The oracles also have to keep their vows extremely well, not eat meat, be celibate etc. I haven't read about the torture of the deity entering the human being.. though it wouldn't surprise me.

From the youtubes i have seen of the oracles taking trance of Dorje shugden or Kache Marpo, it doesn't look as horrific as hot oil poured down their central channel. Though they look very distorted and after the oracular session, the oracle is said to suffer great physical discomfort and take a few days to recover.

I read that the consciousness of an oracle goes into the ring they wear on their thumbs when the deity enters them. Is that true?

[thor]

Sorry guys, just to clarify: Its only at the initial stage when the oracle's physical body is unclean that significant pain is experienced when the lower deities first enter. Later on, when the oracle is sufficiently trained to the point when the Lord Protector himself can enter, there is no longer any pain - just some discomfort and tense-ness in the muscles.

I don't know about the consciousness going into the ring - although the oracle is not conscious when the deities enter. More important is to remember that although the protector or his entourage is able to speak directly to us via the oracle, the protectors always prostrate to the lama and it is our lamas above all who should be foremost in our thoughts.

[Big Uncle]

Tibetan oracles are a tradition that have withstood the test of time and still remain widespread up till today.  This tradition of oracles taking possession of a higher force is rooted in the Tantric belief that the body has 72,000 psychic channels. Upon these channels are where the mind resides and whereupon psychic energies circulate. It is also from these channels that the deity will enter and if the channels are not purified/clear enough, the person will experience pain. Hence, all oracles will have to undergo spiritual training/retreats meant to purify these psychic channels. Meanwhile, lesser entourages will enter the oracle-in-training to also purify the psychic channels. As far I know, Yamantaka practice and retreats are excellent to clear the psychic channels so that the trance is complete.

[Lee Dhi]

Vajraprotector, thanks for the explanation about oracles and clarification that distinguishes them from Shamans. I encountered questions related to this subject and could not respond soundly.

I was very fortunate to attend a talk on oracles once (with focus on Dorje Shugden) and have the following to contribute:

1)   The Ganden DS Oracle is residing in America (Dulzin Gameng Kuten) while the oracle from Sera is in Taiwan.

2)   The recognition of an oracle is a tedious process to ensure authenticity:
     a.        Obtain recognition from a high-ranking Lama who has to witness and certify authenticity of the trance.
     b.        Obtain recognition from Dorje Shugden himself through a preceding DS Oracle.
     c.        Obtain recognition from the monasteries by passing a few test including:
          i.   Recounting, specifically, an advice he (Dorje Shugden) gave previously through a preceding oracle.
          ii.   Prove clairvoyance by identifying the correct answers (to specific questions presented by the “testing             
                body”) that are stiffed inside dough balls.
3)   DS oracles come a 2 main forms:
     a.        Wrathful (in the form of Dorje Shugden the Great Protector)
     b.        Peaceful (in the form of Duldzin the Dharma Teacher)
4)   DS channeling:
     a.        Dorje Shugden arrives to “meet” his audience and accepting offerings.
     b.        Dorje Shugden leaves and Kache Marpo comes in his place to communicate to the audience on the Great King’s
             behalf (answering questions, giving advice etc.)
5)   The DS oracle foretold the dangers Dalai Lama would encounter and advised Lobsang Yeshe to save H.H by
        providing a specific escape route through the Southern terrain.

[Geronimo]

Thank you Lee Dhi! The Kunten Lama lived with my family for about a year and a half. I would suggest that those with questions address them directly to the Kunten Lama in Indiana via Jamyang Lama at the Dagom Geden Tensung Ling Monastery. This cuts through conjectures and miscommunications and goes right to the source, the Oracle himself.
Kunten Lama is a Teacher and this too is his job, to remove confusion. He is a very,very sweet and kind man.
Tell them, Thom sent you and Give them my love! [lol]