About samaya

[Karmavajra]

Hello everyone, congratulations for this website!

I have a question in my mind and maybe some of you can help me with this.

In the 90's, I've received a couple of non-HYT initiations from Lati Rinpoche that I am still practicing to this day. Since Lati Rinpoche has 'officially' broken his links with DS practitionners (referrendum), can I still practice these deities that I have received from him? Or is the link between master and disciple broken?

Thanks for your help,


KV

[a friend]

How do you know, dear Karmavajra, that he took the oath?
You should clarify this first. I don´t imagine that anybody made this old Lama take the oath.
I would say that if you don´t have any proof of him doing this, treat the matter like this: think that Lati Rinpoche, a venerable being, was forced by circumstances to keep his practices in the secret of his heart. Like many other Lamas known and unknown.
I would say that even if you had proof you can think "he was forced to perform a comedy" of taking an oath or whatever. Because believe me, among the young monks it´s very possible that a true schism took place because of the Dalai Lama´s influence and their ignorance. But Lati Rinpoche, the venerable being, HE KNOWS. Nobody is going to make him swallow the lies, the calumnies, the insanity.
If he stayed there it´s either because he could not go somewhere else or because he chose to stay and protect some precious things, don´t ask me which ones.
So go on practicing, keep a pure heart, learn, study, contemplate, meditate on Je Tsongkhapa´s teachings and since you seem to be a Protector´s practitioner just talk to the Protector, he will protect your mind.
Best to you!

[Karmavajra]

Thank You A friend,

Since Lati Rinpoche stayed in Shartse, I tought he had been forced (under undue pressure of course!) to take the oath. I was not sure if, while in fact keepin his own practice, the oath had implications for others, such as disciples, etc.

Thanks,

KV

[a friend]

I agree that damtsig has nothing to do with a forced oath, a political act.
I agree that we can assume with ease that the Venerable Lati Rinpoche has been acting under the stress of undue pressure and in any case against his own heart ... like probably most of our Lamas.

[honeydakini]

Dear Karmavajra,

The other forum posters have shared very valuable and accurate information already. I'd like to share something that I think might be helpful to you. There is an article on this dorje shugden website about how the "ban" on DS actually contradicts the Vinaya, which is very logically debated and presented. It explains, foremost, that making a major decision on something like this - i.e. a central practice - cannot be simply changed by one person but must go through a democratic process with the agreement of the sangha. It discusses also, the fact that the sangha were forced into agreeing to this ban (by threat, or otherwise). Here is the article for your reference: It is titled DALAI LAMA'S REFERENDUM CONTRADICTS THE VINAYA: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=2197


In this way, following in this vein and adding to what has already been said, I think we cannot consider that lamas like Lati Rinpoche - or indeed any of the monks at Shartse - can be said to really have broken their practice, lineage and samaya. (that is unless, of course an individual has specifically and definitively from his heart renounced the practice and henceforth regards it as bad/ wrong/illegal etc which would then be to forsake their gurus, samaya and lineage).

I believe that you can continue - with much confidence and faith - to practice those deities and practices that you have received from Lati Rinpoche. The power and blessings that you will receive from the practices will also come largely from the fact that you yourself have maintained a pure and good samaya with your teacher and the lineage - the blessings of the lineage, of all the teachers that begin with Lati Rinpoche and precede him, will come down to you by that.

[DSFriend]

if our root guru who gives us dorje shugden practice tells us to stop practicing :
1) BUT we continue to practice - How would it affect samaya since blessings come from keeping clean samaya

2) We stop practicing - How would it affect our vows to dorje shugden

[dsnowlion]

if our root guru who gives us dorje shugden practice tells us to stop practicing :
1) BUT we continue to practice - How would it affect samaya since blessings come from keeping clean samaya

2) We stop practicing - How would it affect our vows to dorje shugden

To add to your questions Dsfriend:

1) Can you actually continue to practice Dorje Shugden when your Lama who gave you the practice tells you to stop in the first place??

2) To add to question no.2, would it affect the vows to Dorje Shugden as well as the samaya with our Guru? And since Dorje Shugden is only effective if you have clean Guru Samaya then how would Dorje Shugden be effective for you if your Guru tells you to stop but you continue? Is that still breaking samaya?
 

[honeydakini]

if our root guru who gives us dorje shugden practice tells us to stop practicing :
1) BUT we continue to practice - How would it affect samaya since blessings come from keeping clean samaya

2) We stop practicing - How would it affect our vows to dorje shugden

To add to your questions Dsfriend:

1) Can you actually continue to practice Dorje Shugden when your Lama who gave you the practice tells you to stop in the first place??

2) To add to question no.2, would it affect the vows to Dorje Shugden as well as the samaya with our Guru? And since Dorje Shugden is only effective if you have clean Guru Samaya then how would Dorje Shugden be effective for you if your Guru tells you to stop but you continue? Is that still breaking samaya?
 

These are very interesting questions - good to contemplate.

I would believe that because the Lama is central to our practice - and we regard all Buddha forms as emanations of our lama (not the other way around) - then listening to his advice and doing what he has recommended us to do would be the best way. This applies not just specifically to the practice of Dorje Shugden but to all practices - for example, some lamas may remove a practice from a student if it is not helping them AT THAT TIME, for example, or advise them to focus more on one practice than another at a certain time. In this case, it is not that you are breaking samaya because you are listening to your Guru's instructions and teachings, with the faith that this is what is best and most conducive for your spiritual path.

What is important though is what you do after that - you may choose to follow your lama's advice, but this should not extend to starting a witch hunt on other students who DON'T follow the advice. We can gently guide and advise, but how we act, work and practice with our dharma family at all times is also a part of keeping and/or breaking samaya.

[a friend]

Dear friends,

I assume all of you are practicing Dorje Shugden under a kind Guru that gave you the practice and is very happy that you are practicing.
I don´t understand why keep imagining situations coming from the unfortunate ban.

In any case, since you might be asking for a friend in trouble, here the advice of an old friend:

If your Guru who gave you the Protector tells you not to practice any more --and I personally don´t know of any Guru at all who gave the Protector and tells others to stop the practice, I know of one who stopped practicing publicly himself, but he didn´t tell his students to stop the practice-- if you are in such imaginary case and you want to continue the practice, then go to your Guru and talk to him. Tell him "I want to continue this practice because this is the practice given by our lineage Gurus and I need to honor the commitment that I have with a Deity, please allow me to continue practicing or find a solution for me, please". I don´t imagine any Guru refusing to find a solution for such a case. You don´t need to follow blindly, you legitimately can request your Guru to contemplate your situation and give you all the permissions needed.
Let the solution come from him, not from blind following whatever he says --particularly in this case that is so mixed up with politics and psychology and many other things.

But again, I would be interested in knowing if a Guru like that exists, you don´t need to give names. Not so many Lamas were giving the practice, after all.

[emptymountains]

The oath (not to associate with Shugden followers) is indeed generally followed, but it's more of a social phenomenon.  Calling it an oath is demeaning to the word oath itself.  It is unprecendented and shouldn't be confused with spiritual oaths (dam tshig).

In putting together a list of the 253 Pratimoksha vows, I came across these two actions to be abandoned:

103. sharing spiritual instructions and material things with a monk who has been expelled from the monastery
104. sharing spiritual instructions and material things with a novice who has been expelled from the monastery

Perhaps, then, a question to consider first is whether being expelled for being a DS practitioner is legitimate?

[honeydakini]

Perhaps, then, a question to consider first is whether being expelled for being a DS practitioner is legitimate?

Thanks for these thoughts - I always appreciate your comments that make us all think more!!! (and I really appreciate having a forum to learn by thinking this way so do keep prompting! )

I was most intrigued by your question above: "whether being expelled for being a DS practitioner is legitimate?" because i think we first need to consider how this "rule" about DS practitioners doing something "wrong" or "illegal" within the monastic community is/was formed in the first place - is the very process of implementing this "rule" valid in the first place?

I think this is being addressed also in the thread about whether Dalai lama is creating a schism, and in the article about how Dalai Lama's referendum re: DS contradicts vinaya so I shan't repeat those points here.

i am not so sure of the specific technicalities of sangha rules (i hate to use that word... but I can't think of another at the moment - perhaps, code of conduct?) between different traditions and schools of Buddhism. However, I think the underlying process within all sangha communities is that for anything to be changed or for any major decision pertaining to practices, monk conduct, living arrangements etc have to be decided upon by a majority or by a group of sangha members - this I understand to be a way of ensuring that not just any person can stand up and make a declaration for or against something willy-nilly.

In the case of this ban, though it was "voted on" by a group, it is very clearly known (both by karma and by our own 5 senses) that the vote was enforced and monks were voting under pressure/threat. In this case, responsibility goes back to just one person, and therefore, I believe that on the highest level, it doesn't follow the monastic code. So the very "rule" that infers that DS practitioners are doing something wrong or against the sangha code is itself incorrect and unlawful. I.e. the process in which this new "rule" was decided upon was breaking the rules!

[Geronimo]

Mantras to increase merit_Multiplying Mantra

It was stated in the Sutras that when you recite this mantra seven times (7x) in the morning, all the virtuous actions performed by you during the day, including recitation of mantras, will be multiplied by a hundred thousand times. Therefore, this is an excellent mantra to recite every morning for you to multiply the merits of the virtuous activities carried out throughout the day.

OM SAMBHARA SAMBHARA VIMANA SARA MAHA JAVA HUNG
OM MARA MARA VIMANA SARA MAHA JAVA HUNG (7x)
Prostrations

While reciting the following mantra, prostrate three times. Reciting this mantra multiplies the benefit of each prostration by one hundred thousand times and enables one to actualize the “path of seeing” in this lifetime. The physical action of prostrating purifies mainly the negative karmas of the body. The verbal action of reciting the mantra exalts the Buddhas by declaring their supreme power and knowledge. It purifies negative karmas of speech. The mental action of remembering the supreme power and knowledge of the Buddhas arouses faith. It purifies the negative karmas of the mind.

OM NAMO MANJUSHRIYE NAMAH SUSHRIYE NAMAH UTTAMA SHRIYE SVAHA (3x)

Continue to prostrate while reciting either Homage to the Buddha or The Bodhisattva’s Confession of Moral Downfalls while visualizing the Thirty-five Confessional Buddhas. Prostrate to each holy object in your room, or to each of the Thirty-five Confessional Buddhas, and think that they are the embodiment of your root virtuous friend as well as the embodiment of the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.

 

Blessing the Rosary

It was mentioned in the Tantra “Palace of Vast Jewels” that reciting this mantra seven times, and blowing it onto your rosary and rubbing it, will increase the power of your recitation such that each recitation creates the same merit and power as having reciting all the Secret Mantras taught by the holy Buddhas 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times.

OM RUTSIRA MANI PRAWA TAYA HUNG (7x)

 

Blessing the feet

Every day you create and collect negative karmas of killing knowingly (eating meat, killing pests, etc.) and unknowingly (stepping over insects etc.). With altruistic motivation, the following are highly recommended to prevent you from collecting negative karmas from killing and to bless the deceased creatures with better rebirths.

When you recite this mantra three times (3x) and then spit on the soles of your feet, it ensures that you do not create the negative karma when you inadvertently step on and kill any living creature, e.g. ants, during the course of the day. It also helps the sentient being to have a good rebirth.

OM KHE TSARA GHANA HUM HRI SOHA (3x)

 

Blessing the Meat

When you recite this mantra seven times (7x) over any meat you eat, it purifies the fault of eating meat (i.e. the non-virtuous action of killing) and blesses the sentient being whose flesh you are eating to have a good rebirth.

OM ABIRA KHE TSARA HUNG (7x)

 

Special Mantras to Increase the Merit 100,000 times

CHOM DEN DAY DE ZHIN SHEG PA DRA CHOM PA YANG DAG PAR DZOG PEY SANG GYE NAM PAR NANG DZEY Ö KYI GYEL PO LA CHAG TSEL LO (3x)

JANG CHUB SEM PA SEM PA CHEN PO KUN TU ZANG PO LA CHAG TSEL LO (3x)

 

TAYATHA OM PENCHA GRIYA AVA BODHANI SOHA OM DHURU DHURU JAYA MUKHE SOHA (7x)

 

Special Mantra so that Prayers Made Come to Pass

CHOM DEN DEY DE ZHIN SHEG PA DRA CHOM PA YANG DAG PAR DZOG PEY SANG GYE NGO WA DANG MON LAM THAM CHEY [RAB TU DU PEY] GYEL PO LA CHAG TSEL LO (1x or 3x)[/b]



         
   
 

[Big Uncle]

Hello everyone, congratulations for this website!

I have a question in my mind and maybe some of you can help me with this.

In the 90's, I've received a couple of non-HYT initiations from Lati Rinpoche that I am still practicing to this day. Since Lati Rinpoche has 'officially' broken his links with DS practitionners (referrendum), can I still practice these deities that I have received from him? Or is the link between master and disciple broken?

Thanks for your help,

KV

Dear Karmavajra,

As far as I am concerned, I don't think Kyabje Lati Rinpoche has officially given up on the Dorje Shugden practice. By receiving initiation from him, you are bounded by your vows to him as your Guru. Hence, you are bound by your refuge and Bodhisattva vows to him. As far as I know, he is a Guru of pure lineage and hence you are very fortunate to have received those initiations from him. Treasure the practices that you have been received by practicing it well. So make sure you know your refuge, Bodhisattva and whatever other vows that you are holding so you can keep them well. Also, please make sure you maintain your daily commitments along with  your vows. Understand the benefits and the meditation of your deity-yidam well. Perform the sadhanas consistently and with maintaining a stable mind, you will see spiritual attainments arise within your mind.

Regards,
Big Uncle