Author Topic: Delhi Court Decision  (Read 34194 times)

Robert Thomas

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Delhi Court Decision
« on: April 21, 2010, 10:51:20 AM »
Seems that there is an update, looks not good  :(

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?article=Delhi+High+Court+dismisses+Dhoegyal+society's+charges&id=27162

Anyone else know more?

Still - always rely on a happy mind. I am reminded of when Geshe Kelsang saw the terrible articles that were published in the Guardian and Independent back in 1996, he was at Heruka Center in London. People felt very dissapointed by the way the articles were written and felt sad, they thought they had done a bad job, but in fact when they showed Geshe-la he showed a happy demeanour and pointed out how wonderful it was to have so many people see pictures of Dorje Shugden and read Dorje Shugden's name, he thought it created very good imprints for the future :-) I think there was also a lovely photo of Maitreya :-) So he never became discouraged  ;D

So I suppose in this case also we shouldn't be too upset either if the court case result is not good for us. As Geshe Kelsang always says to his students, "Try but don't worry. Always rely on a happy mind alone"

« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 01:55:39 PM by Robert Thomas »

emptymountains

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 06:44:23 PM »
There sure were a lot of points the petitioners asked the Court to address in their original filing (such as does the CTA have the right to conduct an exile government on Indian soil), most of which are not commented on in the Tibet.net press release. We haven't heard the whole story yet, just one side's "spin."
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 03:23:31 PM by emptymountains »

a friend

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2010, 10:03:58 PM »

But the Court did dismiss the case, based on a procedural technicality, without touching at the main subject matter.
The lawyers think they can restart the process and say they are hopeful.
In my humble opinion the Delhi's Court will always try to dismiss in order to not to give a judgement on the matter of human rights.

Don't forget that the Dalai Lama was a personal friend with Indira Gandhi, and that he was the honored and protected guest of Nehru himself. These things are not forgotten by the Indians who respect very much their great leaders. It is repulsive to them to have to judge such character, because in an indirect way they would be telling their deceased leaders just named: you were wrong, you didn't trust the right person.

This I said at the beginning of this Court case. Today I still think the same. It's not such a difficult profecy, that the Indian Courts will resort to many procedural technicalities and pospone sine die any judgement against the DL.

Because it's obvious that if the Courts were to pronounce a statement about the subject matter they cannot abstain from condemning the human right abuses.
That's why they resort to technicalities of procedure: to avoid a true judgment about the heart of the matter.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 10:05:39 PM by a friend »

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2010, 11:17:17 PM »
It is too late for the court cases. It does not look like they are going to win.

If the case was done many years ago when Ven Geshe Kelsang Gyatso first suggested, it would have bore results.

TK

a friend

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2010, 12:56:59 AM »

I agree with Trinley Kelsang.

It's true that even though the case is dismissed (for now) invoking technicalities there are two things that somehow play in favor of the Shugden people:
1- The fact that the judges let the door open for individual lawsuits. This no doubt is a deterrent per se.
Because even if no lawsuit were to be filed individual per individual case, the possibility for this to happen has been left open by the Court.
2- As Trinley Kelsang said, it's very possible that the Indian authorities made some type of private injonction to the Dalai Lama to stop at least the grossest manifestations of his persecution.

Of course, all of this would be of great value if the Dalai Lama were a reasonable person or if his advisors were more courageous people, capable of confronting him with the truths that he doesn't like. Since none of these possibilities seem to exist, it is possible also that neither the Court's decisions nor the private injonctions of the Indian authorities are going to be of any benefit whatsoever.

Already in the past it was said that the Indian government had tried to stop him (at different occasions after 1996), which would explain, maybe, some of the ups and downs in the intensity of his campaign. But in the end he always did whatever his secret inclinations demanded him to do, and the victims are there, both the persecuted practitioners around the world and the Dharma of Lord Buddha.

Yes, I agree with Trinley Kelsang, we have to continue with the task of showing the world that "the Dalai Lama's case against Shugden is not in good judgement".

 

Geronimo

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2010, 01:39:15 AM »
Collect and document all stories from anyone who has one to document with the Kundeling Rinpoche.
Focus an ongoing Fund Raiser to Fund the Continuance of this Ligtigation!


« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 01:55:18 AM by Lhakpa Gyaltshen »

Geronimo

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2010, 02:01:08 AM »
The Day a Group of Mountain Red Necks from Tibet can defeat a Descendant of the Cavaliers, a Son of Virginia, Robert de Bouillion to Charlamagne. Will be the day I am Dead!
Defeat is Never an Option!
My Position to Defend Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche remains unchanged.
Whatever It Takes
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 02:06:20 AM by Lhakpa Gyaltshen »

Geronimo

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2010, 05:22:44 AM »
Kyabje Trijang Choktrul Dorje Chang Rinpoche was taken from the Lama Choepa by the 14th Dalia Lama.
How is is this possible as Trijang Rinpche is Je Tsongkhapa, known as the "Jewel Ornament of the Sages of the Land of Snow", As The Founder of the Gelug Tradition?

Mohani

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2010, 09:00:13 AM »
On March 17, 2008, Shugden Society filed civil writ petition in Delhi High Court against the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government exile. The petition was accepted, and notice was sent to them on April 8, 2008. The news appeared in Times of India. Meanwhile the respondents sought time twice for their reply. However, the hearing was begun on January 15, 2009. And two years had elapsed. On April 5, 2010, Delhi High Court passed judgment. Extract:

 

1)         The government of India pointed out that this court has no territorial jurisdiction over a dispute. As they are located in Dharamshala, the state government is to investigate the allegations against the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government in exile. Indian government does not recognize the so-called Tibetan government in exile. It is further stated that worshippers of Dorje Shugden have a right to freedom of religion as enshrined under Article 25 of the Constitution.


2)         Center Tibetan Administration categorically stated that its role is merely facilitative in the process of the center government issuing registration certificates and identity cards.

 

3)         Given the prayers made in the writ petition, it appears to this Court that the question of directions being issued to Respondents 3 and 4 not to harass or maltreat the members of Petitioner No.1 Society does not really arise particularly in the absence of any specific instances of any such attacks on the members of Petitioner No.1 Society by the Respondent No.3. Further, there is no mention of any complaint having been made to the police by Petitioners regarding such attacks, which have not been acted upon by the police authorities

 

4)       The writ petition refers to certain remarks made by Respondent No.4 during a visit to Mundgod in Karnataka which is supposed to have led to attack by the followers of Respondent No.4 upon the worshippers of Dorje Shugden. Apart from this averment being vague, it appears that no formal complaint was lodged by the members of Petitioner No.1 Society in relation to such instance with the police in Karnataka. Tere is no question of any interference on the basis of such vague averments particularly when the criminal law remedy available to the Petitioners has not been availed of by them.

 

 

5)       The petition adverts to issues concerning the religious practices adopted by the Petitioner which are apparently opposed by Respondents 3 and 4. On their part, Respondents 3 and 4 have, in their counter affidavit, referred to an understanding reached whereby it was left to the monks to decide whether they would want to be associated with the practices of Dorje Shugden. It is submitted that there is no personal ban on the Petitioners.

 

6)        This Court does not consider it appropriate to express any view on these issues. These do not partake of any public law character and therefore are not  justiciable in proceedings under Article 226 of the Constitution. Matters of religion and the differences among groups concerning propitiation of religion, cannot be adjudicated upon by a High Court in exercise of its writ jurisdiction.

 
 7)       For all of the above reasons, this Court finds that it cannot entertain the present

writ petition. It is however clarified that the dismissal of this petition will not preclude any individual member or members of the Petitioner No.1 Society to seek appropriate remedies as may be available to them in law before the appropriate forum.

 

There is no question of win - lose matter here. The dismissal of the case is disappointing. On other hand this experience probably gave us second chance to approach in better and efficient way. Moreover, it also implies that collaboration and fraternity are priorities. Also, our lawyer said that the Society can file a Suit and individuals who are affected can file individual Petitions.

 

 

The society tried its best according to its ability. Of course the society is poorly funded. But this is not end of our struggle for religious freedom, human dignity and equality, since our cause is just.  And it goes without saying that those who walk on the path of truth often face challenges. Despite hindrance we ought to effort that no one live through the deprivation of their basic rights, and pledge to promote love, compassion and tolerance in lieu of merely preaching them.

 

April 22, 2010


Middleway

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2010, 09:43:38 AM »
Point no. 5 stings - the monks had that freedom already - who was forcing anyone to practice?  & the context of the reply is wrong - it was not a question of being associated with the practice - but of being forced not to associate or give any support to practitioners etc etc.  There's so much evidence for this.

Still, I am not in the least surprised & neither am I discouraged.  Faith goes beyond worldly definitions of success & failure, our practice is leading us to enlightenment is it not?  But nevertheless we must do what we can to help solve this external problem, including, I think, continuing with legal action.

Those who support the DL believed him anyway (or were steadfast in their own deception), there is still so much evidence for the world at large to view, enough people understand corruption is rife & a court judgement is not a firm indicator of truth. Our practise is strong & our practice is flourishing in the West at least.  What has happened / is happening is that we have made our voice heard and put strength behind that voice in many ways.  This means the DL's wish of removing even the memory or our Protector will not succeed.  He will not be able to remove us from the Buddhist community.

The drama continues!

vajralight

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2010, 10:10:16 AM »
not surprised by this - check
good motivation - check
getting plackards/banners ready - check
looking up schedule DL - check
looking up flights -check
testing shouting voice- check
willingness to demonstrate again - check


It was said if they stop we stop. They don't seem to stop.... therefore........


vajra

Middleway

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2010, 10:25:07 AM »
Not that you guys need convincing of anything but...

Just watching an article from AlJazeera about the U.S coverage of the Wiki Leaks video of those journalists being gunned down by the Apache in Iraq.  The point they're making is that the main stream U.S media didn't want to touch the story.  CNN initially had the vid on-line & it was by far (I mean massively) their most viewed article.  Then it disappeared.  CNN make money every time someone clicks on one of their articles, but something persuaded them that this was not something they wanted to show. After that piece went down what was 'front page' news was Tiger Woods & the iPad.

My point is, for so many in power what counts is expediency.  People are increasingly turned on to this, we see it in voting apathy etc.  More people are turning to alternative news sources, making their own minds up from multiple sources of info.

Also many people are happy to follow the crowd, have their attachments etc etc, so I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture, just a one that shows hope, which I think there is lots of.

emptymountains

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2010, 10:40:59 AM »
If one felt disappointment look inside, is it ego such as winning/losing or true concern solving a problem? ...  So, what we need to still do is show clearly how the Dalai Lama's case against Shugden is not in good judgement, it is not to counter sectarianism, etc.

My first reaction was disappointment, but a split it second later it was "This just shows that we should not take refuge in any government, be it the US, China, Tibet, or India."

However, this does not mean the court case was a bad idea--it was a necessary step so that we may "remain natural while changing your aspiration."

indolent1

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2010, 11:42:50 AM »
Agree, the court case was a necessary step.

However, any decisions made by any government concerning Tibet will be tempered by the following:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1502117.stm

paolorossi

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Re: Delhi Court Decision
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2010, 04:58:25 PM »
OK THIS IS NOT THE LAST WORD.
THE CASE WAS SUBMITTED TO THE INDIAN COURT.
WE ALL DEEPLY APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS MADE BY THE DS.SOCIETY.
THANKS
MAY TRUTH PREVAIL!
paolorossi