Delhi Court Decision

[paolorossi]

 happiness comes from outside or inside?anyway I am not happy for this Delhi Court decision
paolo

[a friend]

This Court does not consider it appropriate to express any view on these issues. These do not partake of any public law character and therefore are not  justiciable in proceedings under Article 226 of the Constitution. Matters of religion and the differences among groups concerning propitiation of religion, cannot be adjudicated upon by a High Court in exercise of its writ jurisdiction.

I suspect that the fact that they don´t have much funds precludes them from having excellent lawyers.
It is possible that the case might not have been well presented on the part of the Society. How many times I´ve heard, for instance, that in India it is forbidden to forbid the worshipping of a deity. One wonders why this never was used in a Court of law. This is just an example. The violations of human rights that anyone can find in YouTube fall amply into the jurisdiction of the Indian Courts. Why was the case presented in such way that these violations do not appear as such? So let´s face it: they might´ve been poorly represented by their lawyers.

But I still think that the Courts of India are going to do whatever it takes to avoid judging the Dalai Lama and for that they have probably an infinite supply of procedural obstacles  --and procedural matters have often little to do with justice, they have to do with the possibility of obstructing justice.

I also still think that the Court case was an excellent thing to do, even if it was not done in a perfect way, even if it seems to have failed. Something bad happens (and I hope it´s not going to happen) they can always go again to the Courts and the fact of having already tried is going to be in their favor. So, if somebody has some sense in Dharamsala, this might be a deterrent. (Ok, I know, they´ve proved that they are not sensible people, but one can always hope that somebody might change one of these days).

[a friend]

Once again, you are exactly right, Trinley Kelsang.
The word religion should only have been pronounced in the concept "discrimination based on religion" ...
So it seems that the hypothesis of not so good lawyers might be the correct one.

[emptymountains]

The reasons given by the Delhi High Court seem fair enough, but why did it take two years for them to simply say, "You've brought this matter to the attention of the national court because it involves another government; however, we do not recognize this government, so we refer you back to the local police and state courts."

[a friend]

Friends, I did a small analysis of the National Court´s decision refusing to accept jurisdiction in the case presented to them by the Dorje Shugden Charitable Society. The black letters are from the Court´s decision.

1)   Two important statements against the Dalai Lama:
Indian government does not recognize the so-called Tibetan government in exile. It is further stated that worshippers of Dorje Shugden have a right to freedom of religion as enshrined under Article 25 of the Constitution.

2)   A reason of location for denying jurisdiction:
The government of India pointed out that this court has no territorial jurisdiction over a dispute. As they are located in Dharamshala, the state government is to investigate the allegations against the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government in exile.

3)   Two reasons against the actions of the Society and the other complainers: they didn´t do what they should´ve done in terms of following the normal hierarchy of authorities, the Police coming first:

-there is no mention of any complaint having been made to the police by Petitioners regarding such attacks, which have not been acted upon by the police authorities.

-Apart from this averment being vague, it appears that no formal complaint was lodged by the members of Petitioner No.1 Society in relation to such instance with the police in Karnataka. There is no question of any interference on the basis of such vague averments particularly when the criminal law remedy available to the Petitioners has not been availed of by them.

4)   A reason of pure jusridiction that the lawyers didn´t take into account: the Court does not look into matters of religion. (Obviously, they do in matters of civil rights, but the lawyers didn´t take this path apparently).
Matters of religion and the differences among groups concerning propitiation of religion, cannot be adjudicated upon by a High Court in exercise of its writ jurisdiction.

5)   A warning to the Dalai Lama and the so called Tibetan Government in Exile:
It is however clarified that the dismissal of this petition will not preclude any individual member or members of the Petitioner No.1 Society to seek appropriate remedies as may be available to them in law before the appropriate forum.

[Geronimo]

Warriors of Shambala will Defend the Lineage of Je T'Song Khapa,
 by Bearing Witness Against Samdung and the Dalia in a Court Of Law.
The Dalia is Going Down in a Tailspin of Smoke.

Manjunatha Sumati Kirti Foundation
contact: Bastian Schmieder
[email protected]
ANOUNCEMENT
Due to the on-going persecution of adherents of the four centuries-old Buddhist protective deity Dorje
Shugden by Tenzin Gyatso, aka the 14th Dalai Lama, and his "Central Tibetan Administration" (CTA)
following a ban of that religious practise in March 1996 through the Tibetan "God-King", the Dorje
Shugden Devotees' Charitable and Religious Society filed a Petition to the Delhi High Court, New
Delhi, India in 2008.
After more than two years of struggle, the Petition was finally dismissed by Justice Muralidhar on
April 5, 2010 on technical grounds. In contradiction to this, in a statement on April 20, 2010 on its
website, the CTA stated that the door for similar complaints of their victims in the future had been
closed by the Justice. Nothing could be me more far away from the truth, as Justice Muralidar clearly
stated that by dismissing the case in its present form he would not express any opinion on the merits or
demerits of the case as well as he very clearly pointed out in paragraph 12 of the Order, "It is however
clarified that the dismissal of this petition will not preclude any individual member or member of the
Petitioner No. 1 Society [i.e., the above named Dorje Shugden Society] to seek appropriate remedies as
may be available to them in law before the appropriate forum…". This, in fact, is an obvious hint on
how further legal struggle by Dorje Shugden adherents could be entertained.
CTA further states that the Petition had been dismissed due to 'vague averments' regarding cases of
harassment and persecution against Shugden devotees. Citing the Justice's statements completely out of
context, the CTA thereby tries to draw a new picture of reality. The actual order in fact reads that it
were vague statements because "the criminal law remedies available to the Petitioners has not been
availed by them" (para , i.e. victims, maybe due to intimidation and fear of further persecution, did
not complain to the local police.
Furthermore, the CTA claims that the Justice had stated the acts of persecution and harassment were
not justifiable as argued by the Petitioners. This is, however, a sheer distortion of facts and a deliberate
lie, as the Justice’s statement referred to the ban of the Shugden practise itself that he considers to be
religious. He clearly pointed out that all cases of persecution and harassment were indeed justifiable
and it was to the State of Himachal Pradesh to investigate in them (or the state of Karnataka,
respectively).
The nature of the CTA's statement clearly shows their modus operandi. Facts and even official Court
documents are cited out of context, distorted and put into a new and fabricated context. Even through
only superficially studying the judgement it becomes clear that it was a draw. The dismissal, as
presented above, was mainly out of two reasons. First, the Justice did not see a territorial jurisdiction of
the Delhi High Court pointing towards the law and order institutions of the States of Himachal Pradesh
(the seat of the Tibetan leader) and Karnataka (the site of the large Tibetan settlements Mundgod and
Bylakuppe). Secondly, he mentioned the lack of records in the police files due to the absence of
complaints by victims of the Dalai Lama's actions. All other reasons for dismissing the Petition as
given by the Judge were of technical nature.
Sincerely,
Schmieder

[a friend]

Bastian Schmieder is right: once again the lies.
This is very interesting. If someone were going to put side by side what the DL people are saying about the Court decision and the text of the actual Indian Court decision, it would clearly show the manipulation.
I suggest than somebody does exactly this, because with those lies they are invalidating all of their statements past, present and future.

Thom: why don´t you erase the profecy and just put together the two documents?

[Geronimo]

Monday, May 3, 2010
Court case against the Dalai Lama concludes: no victory, no defeat either
Due to the on-going persecution of Buddhist adherents of the four centuries-old practice of the protective Buddha Dorje Shugden by Tenzin Gyatso, aka the 14th Dalai Lama, and his "Central Tibetan Administration" (CTA), following a ban of that religious practice, the Dorje Shugden Devotees' Charitable and Religious Society took the brave step of filing a Petition to the Delhi High Court, New Delhi, India in 2008.

On 5 April 2010, after more than two years of struggle, the Petition was finally dismissed by Justice S. Muralidhar on technical grounds.

The major reason cited for denying jurisdiction was location. The government of India pointed out that this court has no territorial jurisdiction over a dispute. As they are located in Dharamsala, the state government is to investigate the allegations against the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government in exile. Indian government does not recognize the so-called Tibetan government in exile.

Justice Muralidhar pointed out:

"It is however clarified that the dismissal of this petition will not preclude any individual member or members of the [Dorje Shugden Society] to seek appropriate remedies as may be available to them in law" before the police in Karnataka and its state government.

It was further stated that worshippers of Dorje Shugden have a right to freedom of religion as enshrined under Article 25 of the Constitution.

Predictably, the website of the Central Tibetan Administration on April 20 claimed this as a victory for them, falsely stating on their website that “Justice Muralidhar's decision had the effect of closing the doors on the possibility of similar complaints in the future.” In fact, Justice Muralidar clearly stated that by dismissing the case in its present form he would not express any opinion on the merits or demerits of the case, and he clearly pointed out in paragraph 12 of the Order (as mentioned above): "It is however clarified that the dismissal of this petition will not preclude any individual member or member of the Petitioner No. 1 Society [i.e., the above named Dorje Shugden Society] to seek appropriate remedies as may be available to them in law before the appropriate forum…".

The court noted that the Shugden Society's harassment and maltreatment accusations had not yet been lodged in a formal complaint to the local police authorities. This has led the CTA to take the Justice’s comments out of context, stating that the Petition had been dismissed due to 'vague averments' regarding cases of harassment and persecution against Shugden devotees. The actual order in fact reads that they were vague statements because "the criminal law remedies available to the Petitioners has not been availed of by them" (para , i.e. the victims. This of course is likely due to intimidation and fear of further persecution.

Despite the CTA propaganda, it is clear from studying the judgment that there was no victory, but nor was there a defeat. The dismissal was mainly for two reasons. (1) The Justice did not see a territorial jurisdiction of the Delhi High Court pointing towards the law and order institutions of the States of Himachal Pradesh (the seat of the Tibetan leader) and Karnataka (the site of the large Tibetan settlements Mundgod and Bylakuppe). (2) He mentioned the lack of records in the local police files due to the absence of complaints by victims of the Dalai Lama's actions.

This ruling in fact lights the way for future court cases in the coming years to be tried in the appropriate state forums, especially as and when individual victims garner the courage to make official complaints to the local police and the records of those complaints pile up. As the persecution continues and monks are still expelled en masse from their monasteries, there is sadly no shortage of evidence to bring against the Dalai Lama and his CTA.

As the Dorje Shugden Society said on April 22:

"There is no question of win - lose here. The dismissal of the case is disappointing. On the other hand, this experience has given us a second chance to approach it in a better and more efficient way. Moreover, it also implies that collaboration and fraternity are priorities. Also, our lawyer said that the Society can file a Suit and individuals who are affected can file individual Petitions. The society tried its best according to its ability. Of course the society is poorly funded. But this is not end of our struggle for religious freedom, human dignity and equality, since our cause is just. And it goes without saying that those who walk on the path of truth often face challenges. Despite hindrances we ought to make effort that no one live through the deprivation of their basic rights, and pledge to promote love, compassion and tolerance in lieu of merely preaching them."

[Geronimo]

I hope we have learned not to ask nor give any quarter in a Court Of Law.
There is only One Way to Win in the Courts of New Delhi and that is to hit them with everything we have. As you say, Each one of us must take the Stand and Bear Witness Against the Dalia and his sidekick, Sam_Dung.
 I see Legions of Saffron Robes Filling the Court Room to Bring Down the Tyrant.
 United We Stand and Divided We Fall!
I know we will Win and Defend Our Bill OF Rights! Our Freedoms! Our Liberty! Our Integrity! We Each Must Stand With One Another. An attack on one is an attack on all of us!
""There is no question of win - lose here. The dismissal of the case is disappointing. On the other hand, this experience has given us a second chance to approach it in a better and more efficient way. Moreover, it also implies that collaboration and fraternity are priorities. Also, our lawyer said that the Society can file a Suit and individuals who are affected can file individual Petitions. The society tried its best according to its ability. Of course the society is poorly funded. But this is not end of our struggle for religious freedom, human dignity and equality, since our cause is just. And it goes without saying that those who walk on the path of truth often face challenges. Despite hindrances we ought to make effort that no one live through the deprivation of their basic rights, and pledge to promote love, compassion and tolerance in lieu of merely preaching them."

[Midakpa]

"It is too late for the court cases. It does not look like they are going to win.

If the case was done many years ago when Ven Geshe Kelsang Gyatso first suggested, it would have bore results."

TK

I'm sorry, I do not feel in any way qualified to help. I was going through the earlier posts and came across this comment from tk.  It is just a thought, but have you considered consulting your gurus who are omniscient, or Dorje Shugden himself through an oracle? Have you asked them for advice? I feel that this legal action is too important not to have some divine help. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone but personally, I would have resorted to at least asking my guru or Dorje Shugden. They would give the same answer anyway.

[a friend]

This I have said and repeated, it's just an opinion but so far it's proved right.

There are juridical reasons that are the basis for the Court rejection of the case (and this demands a serious reviewing of the lawyers and their lack of knowledge). They erroneously presented the case as a religious matter instead of presenting it as a human rights matter.

Nevertheless I maintain that even with perfect lawyers there are endless matters of procedure that the judges are going to resort to in order not to be forced to condemn a character –the Dalai Lama– that was Nehru´s protegé and Indira Gandhi´s friend.
India has great respect for its own historic leaders and the Courts are going to do their best to protect their honor. In this context, to condemn the Dalai Lama is tantamount to declare that Nehru and Gandhi were wrong .

Of course the Protector is protecting the actions that we undertake to protect the monks, the general people and the lineage. But this is not a guarantee that everything we are doing is correct. With oracle consultation or without oracle consultation the margin for human error is big.

We should wonder why the Protector allows “errors” from our side. The Wisdom Buddha can utterly inspire our minds and guide them in a perfect, unmistaken course of action. Pondering this, one might conclude that that is exactly what he is doing, and even our errors in the mundain level are correct in the end. Why? Because the Protector is a Buddha, he is not the Dalai Lama´s enemy, he is nobody´s enemy. He loves and protects every being as the only child.

Because he protects every being as the only child it might be the case that he will not allow an utter destruction of the Dalai Lama´s reputation. There is a level of beings –how many they are we don´t know– that is having some benefit form the icon of the Dalai Lama. Mostly among non Buddhists who don´t know anything about samaya and such, he is a symbol of goodness, he might be the only ray of hope that they have in the human race. Not to mention that he might be the only hope in the minds of many Tibetans, whether we like it or not. Many people have abstained from denouncing the Dalai Lama because of this. It took me the last persecution, let´s call it the Winter Retreat persecution, to force me for instance out of my silence, to force even Beggar out of his silence.

Now I think to understand that our actions should be limited to only partially render the Dalai Lama impotent. In the field of human rights he needs to fear our actions, he needs to fear for his reputation, this is allowing for the monks to have their separate monasteries instead of being swept out of India. In the field of history his version of things, his defamation of our holy Lamas, his attempt at destroying the lineage has to be defeated. So we have to continue destroying his lies, the manipulation of history that he inspired in his academic followers ... go go go, Trinley Kelsang!!!

But we should not have the obsession of utterly destroying him. I have faith that the Protector is going to allow the exact amount of destruction needed (for the protection of Sangha and people, and for the protection of the lineage for the future) and he is going to allow the exact amount of immunity (in order to protect the minds of those who have the Dalai Lama, and only him, as an icon of goodness or the symbol of hope).

This is a very rough rendering of things that are so difficult and far reaching in consequences. I trust the Protector and hope that whatever we are doing is part of HIS actions.

[Lineageholder]

Dear Trinley Kalsang,

You have to ask why you should work to defend the Dharma of Je Tsongkhapa from destruction by deluded beings?  If Rinpoches such as the ones you mentioned really have abandoned their practice, it is due to a lack of faith and wisdom - you are in a better position than them and using your superior view to preserve the Dharma for future generations is the right thing to do.  Please be the wisdom eyes for those who are blinded by their confusion.  I don't believe it's possible to measure the merit that is accumulated simply by speaking the truth and trying, in whatever way, to stop people falling into the crevasse of wrong views, especially in these times when the Dharma is degenerating and correct views are rare.

Just because something is difficult to do it's not a valid reason not to do it.  Buddhist history is full of people who never gave up and tried until their accomplished their goals even though they became discouraged - Asanga's efforts to meet Maitreya, Milarepa's efforts to attain enlightenment, not to mention the Great Sage and Victor Shakyamuni Buddha's original attainment of enlightenment.  Even Lord Buddha, according to ordinary appearance, initially despaired and decided not to teach because he didn't think that anyone would understand what he had attained; he was 'wrong'.  Where would we all be now if Buddha had not turned the Wheel of Dharma?  It's inconceivable.

I will publicly defend Je Tsongkhapa's tradition and try to maintain it in my heart until my dying breath, even if everyone in this world tells me that I'm wrong and I'm a spirit worshipper because I know they're wrong and my concern is to help them to overcome their suffering.  You are in a better position than me to do this because you're learned and have access to many sources that show that the Dalai Lama is lying.  Therefore, please do not abandon your efforts to protect this tradition.

[Middleway]

Can't say I blame you, though your work has been a million miles from a waste of time. I've personally found it very useful. Of course it was never going to cause any sudden changes, where attachment to view reigns reason is ignored. But your site is such a useful foundation for those who are prepares to listen. Such as the many new students of Dharma who just need to see a bit of proof to ease their incredulity at the deception, such as myself, who knows in his heart but is bolstered by some solid background research. Entrenched views won't change, but your work has contributed, is contributing, to making our tradition strong. Of course negative prayers are definitely wrong & something to retreat from. If you're not adding to your site please please leave it up and if in the future circumstances and a positive mind lead you to add to it then all the better.

Thank you.  

[emptymountains]

Let me just say that I regard Dorje Shugden History as the most important work on Dorje Shugden, second only to Trijang Rinpoche's Music Delighting--and I say that only in deference to the latter.

 

[a friend]

I perfectly understand what Trinley Kelsang is trying to convey. The "pornography" example is quite appropriate. If this seems too much to take right now, my dear friend, please stop, at least for a while.
You need to give your mind a rest. Remember the example of the fiddle: too loose you don´t play, too tight it breaks.
So yes, it might be time for you to relax. I think you were planning some retreat ... do that, or whatever else. And forget about this matter. It will come back to you with fresh insight and fresh strength when the time is right.
No matter what, you already did a gigantic job. You are certainly entitled to a "vacation" of sorts.
One thing though: please do not fear the bad prayers, you are protected.

Remember that you are loved and appreciated ... not only in this Forum. I'm sure in Tushita they have banners fluttering that read: KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG.

    KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG    KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     KUDOS TRINLEY KELSANG     
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