DS brochure

[kurava]

Hi,
I think it’s a great idea to share the Protector practice via the very well designed pamphlets that can be downloaded readily from the site.
As far as I’m concerned, before you tell me about intangible spiritual benefits let’s make sure I can feed my family first; otherwise ( with no offence ) who will have the time to sit down to read a chapter of the holy sutra or meditate on any virtuous subject?
I agree with TK - it’s THE approach to get the ordinary folks interested in the practice!

Kurava

[Middleway]

Has anyone asked their respective Spiritual Guides about this?

[Zach]

It would be much prefered to design a westernised one...although i do agree with Middleway perhapes someone should consult their teacher just to make sure that these are appropriate Skilful actions ! 

[harrynephew]

Has anyone asked their respective Spiritual Guides about this?

I think every Shugden Lama will be more than happy if Dorje Shugden's teachings and images are proliferated and distributed everywhere to benefit the many!

and YES! I've consulted my Lama and my Lama said it is fine. In many countries, temples and Dharma centres provide pictures and images of Enlightened ones for the general public to be brought home with them as a blessing. I cannot reveal my Lama's identity for now as the ban is still on and will keep Him anonymous for now.

Thanks!
H1N1

[DharmaDefender]

Has anyone asked their respective Spiritual Guides about this?

What if one spiritual guide says to do one thing, and another spiritual guide provides different advice? Then you're back to square one - you still believe what you believe, and another person will go along with their own guru's advice.

Then what? You're right and the other person is wrong? Your guru is right and the other guru is wrong? Back to square one, duality and criticising lamas again. What's wrong with reciting Dorje Shugden's mantra for worldly benefit? From his end, he is a Buddha and his mantra itself has power. He himself has already said if you think of him as a Buddha, you will receive the blessings of a Buddha...and this is what the brochure promotes, Dorje Shugden as a Buddha. Besides, Chinese culture already promotes Buddhas as wealth-giving, long-life-granting deities. And the brochure also leads people to this website, where they will find more, and explore more.

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but I'm so tired of just hearing people talk and criticise, talk and criticise, talk and criticise, and doing sod all. Who of you set up this website? Who of you promoted Dorje Shugden to others, without taking to the streets? Without turning people away from the Dharma?

TK's efforts don't harm or hurt anyone...if people think Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha and they throw away the image, they don't receive the merits of his practice. But maybe of the 1000 people you hand it out to, maybe 100 start reciting his mantra, receiving the blessings and planting the seeds to meet Maitreya. What have you done? Are you being compassionate by not trying or doing anything at all? So much hot air, and no action...I distinctly remember forum members telling newcomers that protesting is an acceptable way of supporting the Protector, because it is an ACTIVE way of supporting him...well, from someone else's point-of-view, this is another active way of support. TK's given you a free, nice, easy way of spreading the Protector's image. If you want to do something, fine, do what YOU want but don't bash other people's efforts as cheap, etc. I've never seen TK ridicule or insult other people's efforts to spread Dorje Shugden, even if he might privately disagree with it. Like wisdombeing has suggested, come up with a different design, come up with different languages.

And enough with the snide comments about this being people's karma to bear...or maybe you're just jealous you didn't come up with this idea first. Who knows?

I, for one, am thankful to TK for putting this brochure out. I've distributed in some hospital carparks and if people whose relatives or friends are on their last legs pick up the brochure and find solace in Dorje Shugden and his image, then I think that's one of the best gifts anyone can give them.

[iloveds]

If you need to be asking your spiritual guide whether its the right thing to do then the brochure idea is not for you.

Think about it, if your spiritual guide is pro DS then whether our DS image is taken or thrown away is not as important as the goal.

And what is the goal?
To take up the DS practice.

DS is a buddha no matter what, and from a buddhas side there isn't any disrespect / respect isn't that a duality?

If your spiritual guide is anti-DS then there would be no need to even visit this forum or website for that matter as its none of your concern.

[LosangKhyentse]

hi Alexis

I may have misunderstood but i think the point raised about cultural differences was not so much in reference to the karma accumulated by throwing holy images away etc, more to do with the impact the handout might have on people's minds, whether it would help or hinder the public perception of Shugden practitioners.

Obviously it's negative karma to disrespect a holy image, regardless of where you live.

 

Dear Spacelike,

Thank you for your thoughts, polite language and open mind.
TK

[LosangKhyentse]

Has anyone asked their respective Spiritual Guides about this?

What if one spiritual guide says to do one thing, and another spiritual guide provides different advice? Then you're back to square one - you still believe what you believe, and another person will go along with their own guru's advice.

Then what? You're right and the other person is wrong? Your guru is right and the other guru is wrong? Back to square one, duality and criticising lamas again. What's wrong with reciting Dorje Shugden's mantra for worldly benefit? From his end, he is a Buddha and his mantra itself has power. He himself has already said if you think of him as a Buddha, you will receive the blessings of a Buddha...and this is what the brochure promotes, Dorje Shugden as a Buddha. Besides, Chinese culture already promotes Buddhas as wealth-giving, long-life-granting deities. And the brochure also leads people to this website, where they will find more, and explore more.

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but I'm so tired of just hearing people talk and criticise, talk and criticise, talk and criticise, and doing sod all. Who of you set up this website? Who of you promoted Dorje Shugden to others, without taking to the streets? Without turning people away from the Dharma?

TK's efforts don't harm or hurt anyone...if people think Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha and they throw away the image, they don't receive the merits of his practice. But maybe of the 1000 people you hand it out to, maybe 100 start reciting his mantra, receiving the blessings and planting the seeds to meet Maitreya. What have you done? Are you being compassionate by not trying or doing anything at all? So much hot air, and no action...I distinctly remember forum members telling newcomers that protesting is an acceptable way of supporting the Protector, because it is an ACTIVE way of supporting him...well, from someone else's point-of-view, this is another active way of support. TK's given you a free, nice, easy way of spreading the Protector's image. If you want to do something, fine, do what YOU want but don't bash other people's efforts as cheap, etc. I've never seen TK ridicule or insult other people's efforts to spread Dorje Shugden, even if he might privately disagree with it. Like wisdombeing has suggested, come up with a different design, come up with different languages.

And enough with the snide comments about this being people's karma to bear...or maybe you're just jealous you didn't come up with this idea first. Who knows?

I, for one, am thankful to TK for putting this brochure out. I've distributed in some hospital carparks and if people whose relatives or friends are on their last legs pick up the brochure and find solace in Dorje Shugden and his image, then I think that's one of the best gifts anyone can give them.

Dear DharmaDefender,

Great logic. Clear writing. Written very respectfully like a dharma practitioner. And it's strong without offending. I enjoy reading this type of posts whether IT AGREES WITH MY VIEWS OR NOT.

Thank you so much for being a part of this forum.

TK

[LosangKhyentse]

If you need to be asking your spiritual guide whether its the right thing to do then the brochure idea is not for you.

Think about it, if your spiritual guide is pro DS then whether our DS image is taken or thrown away is not as important as the goal.

And what is the goal?
To take up the DS practice.

DS is a buddha no matter what, and from a buddhas side there isn't any disrespect / respect isn't that a duality?

If your spiritual guide is anti-DS then there would be no need to even visit this forum or website for that matter as its none of your concern.

Many people and practitioner were against the protests by WSS and previously Kadampa against the Dalai Lama. I heard many reactions that why are sangha who should be in contemplations, meditations and quietude doing such loud protests and shout 'STOP LYING'. That it brings such an unpleasant view of Tibetan Buddhism. It brings wrong view of Buddhist Sangha. And it was a religious issue. Unlike Burma where the monks protests were to 'liberate' their country and the Sangha is very powerful as a group looked up to by the majority of lay population. They were the moral conscience. But Tibetan Sangha or sangha of the Tibetan Tradition has not the reputation of being the moral conscience of their societies yet.

Well I am sure the protests have benefits and disbenefits. But if someone was not to speak up, it would never be known. Having said that, there were negative backlashes also. Many teachers including my teachers did not agree with the protests at all. My point, the brochures are such a smaller 'damage', and I feel the benefits are more. If I pass out 108,000 pieces and 1% of that practices Dorje Shugden which is 1,080, that would be 1,080 persons more that recieve Holy Dorje Shugden's assistance/blessings. In turn these 1,080 will pass it to many others and so on. It is worth it.

TK

[sutarmol]

WOW , the person who do this is very skillful n compassion , he distribute the brochure all over the town to benefit people , if people dont like n throw it away , i dont think they have bad karma coz they dont have bad intention and they dont know who is ds and dont have affinity with him .

the person who distribute know some will be thrown away also dont have bad karma coz their motivation just want benifit other .

[thaimonk]

Take example of the Bamiyan Buddha statue in Afghanistan. The people who built it had benefitted a lot of people, the people who saw and worshipped the Bamiyan Buddha had collected a lot of merits, but for the same statue, the people who destroyed it also collected a lot of bad karma.

The same logic also applies to this DS brochure, it may benefit some who found the DS brochure/card useful and eventually do the practice because of the borchure/card, thus collecting merits and gaining attainments, likewise there are also people who would throw it away thus collecting some bad karma.

So only if you think the Bamiyan statue should not be built in the first place, then you can criticize the making and spreading of the DS brochure. Otherwise you are practising double-standard.

[happyxiao73]

I like the red colour ds brochure, why? Because easy to read!!! I get it from my mailbox!!! First, i thought is another boring catalog, luckily i open and read through it. That is nice :-)  I don't know who is ds, but i like the red colour design of this brochure, i attracted by the colour then i read inside. The information inside is clear and simple. For me, it is a new thing but quite interest. Thank you someone put in my mailbox!!!  

[LosangKhyentse]

Red is a auspicious color for the Chinese. They feel it brings luck, wealth, prospertiy, growth and harmony.

The red of the brochure would appeal in the east very much so.

TK

[pgdharma]

I have read some comments that some people are not agreeable that the brochures are simply distributed. However i think that it is a brilliant idea!!The brochure is so informative and it is a way of reaching out to the people who having taken it, would read it, out of curiosity and they may want to start this practice. And it would bring tremendous benefit to those who practise. I am definitely going to print out this wonderful brochures and photo and pass out to my friends!!!!

[DSFriend]

It leaves me feeling uncomfortable.  I mean, 'free card inside' - like a plastic toy in a cereal packet.  Landing on the floor along with the junk mail & immediately filed under 'religious crazies' by 99.9% of people who receive it as an unsolicited item.

I completely agree with Middleway! This is really a sorry initiative.

Dorje Shugden, the highest most secret and inconceavable object of knowledge in Samsara and Nirvana is now reduced to a crakerjack handout! 

It's cheap...

Dear Alexis
I agree with you about the nature of Dorje Shugden. Because of his nature, how can he be reduced to a crakerjack handout as you perceived. The way I view it, even if he is in a "free card" and pops out from a crakerjack box, people will still get blessings. And this is what I rejoice in that people are getting the brochures and yes, enlightened image for "free".

best wishes always
DSFriend