Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's Name mantra removed!!

[a friend]

January 13, 1999

H.H. the Dalai Lama paid visit to Trijang Labrang, the residence of His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche (1900-1981), his tutor.

At a gathering of the Labrang's, H.H. the Dalai Lama says: “...during my visit to Switzerland, Lobsang said, the current Choktul Rinpoche be allowed to worship Dorje Shugden like his predecessor, without a decision through the dough ball divination. He also told me that the ban on Shugden worship is causing widespread suffering to everyone, and that it may be revoked. This is ridiculous talk. My reason for banning the Protector is in the interest of Tibetan's politics and religion, as well as for the Gelug tradition. In our face to face meeting, I also told Rinpoche to understand that we may meet each other for the last time."

During this private audience with H.H. the Dalai Lama, Ven. Choezed la, the eldest official at Trijang Labrang, mostly humbly pointed out that the religious ban has created an unprecedented atmosphere of hostility against both Shartse monastery and against Trijang Labrang which is not very different from the atmosphere of the Cultural Revolution in Tibet. He requested that, to lift the suffering within the Tibetan public from this atmosphere, he may kindly consider revoking the ban.

To this, H.H. the Dalai Lama angrily said,
 “there will be no change in my stand. I will never revoke the ban. You are right. It will be like the Cultural Revolution. If they (those who do not accept the ban) do not listen to my words, the situation will grow worse for them. You sit and watch. It will grow only worse for them.”

[cleojean]

Dear everyone - especially to Mohani, A Friend and Samayatree,
Firstly, I would like to express my deepest and sincere apologies. I must admit when I first read about how some people wanted to open a mirror site and just abandoned ship like that, so easily - it sparked a defense mechanism within me. As it stands, DS practitioners are already getting bullied in all ways. So, I felt much incensed by how our own members would seemingly do the same. Having said all that, I realise these are just my own perceptions. Whether they are right or wrong, I cannot say. I have no right to say. Whether they themselves understand what they are doing and what their real motivation is, I am also not in a position to judge. As our main practice is always loving kindness, I felt most ashamed that I displayed none of it. As I logged in and read all the posts - especially the conversations between A Friend and Samayatree and how they resovled their differences and ended up friendship, it truly moved me. In addition, when I read Mohani's own post - it brought tears to my eyes. I am sure it is not easy for Mohani to do this. I know it would not be easy for me, personally, if I were Mohani. But I have gained faith and respect in the members of this Forum due to what has happened recently. Sometimes we ourselves may not know how well our sincere intent may be received. Some of us may not even realise whether our intent is sincere or genuine in the first place as well. After much reflection on my own shameful actions, and the kind actions of others in this Forum - my belief and faith in this Forum are deeply reinforced. This website and Forum not only share a treasure of valuable information but it brings people to a higher understanding of one another, and of ourselves. And that is truly amazingly beautiful to me.
I had to re-value my own thoughts and feelings as well. Perhaps this is similiar to what is happening in Dharamsala & TGIE - HH DL may have his own plans in doing what he does with DS - but the ways in which  the TGIE has executed those policies have been too extreme. Some may have been over-ruled by their own highly defensive emotions, some may be over-ruled by their own desires for more power and money and some may be just plain confused and are swept by the whole TIDE OF THINGS. Hence, there is a real difference between those who execute and those who issues a statement or policy, or those who want to do something important but the sincerity of the intent is not understood, or even appreciated. So much misunderstanding can arise from it, as can be exemplified by what happened in here. This is just a mirror to our outside world.
It is vry clear to me that I know very little and understand very little. Above all, it is so important that we begin everything with compassion so that we can end with compassion.
I can safely say that no one here is bad or has any ill intent. So many people – oldies or newbies have taken the time to post things and share so much meaningful information and have enriched us all. This Forum is great because of everyone’s collective efforts and dedication to share more. And that is what I truly value most of all.
So, once again, I am deeply sorry to have caused anyone, any grief or discomfort in any which way or form. And I humbly request that we all remember how valuable this Forum this and how important all of us are to this Forum. We are the ones who make this Forum special, every input and every word we put in here – may it all be drenched with loving kindness, and the true motivation to help others understand DS better and the glory of DS.
May this Forum be a haven, be an institution of learning and healing, a place of comfort and solace to anyone who needs and seeks for it.
May this Forum be a sanctuary of friendship, hope and great faith.
May the supreme glory of DS spread into the ten directions from here and change lives.
I shall re-post my comments here in other threads where I have commented so that the people whom my apologies are directed to can read them. This is my only intention and it is not to spam.
Thank you for having me here. It is a joy and priviledge.
May I always strive to behave and speak in a way that reflects my Guru’s teachings and kindness. May I always embody what I aspire to practice through my words. May I strive to be a good example of a student of Dharma and follower of DS.

THANK YOU ALL and have a wonderful day

[shugdenpromoter]

This news is really sad and yet at the same time so absurd. By removing Trijang Rinpoche's mantra is like saying the Lamrin is WRONG and all the lineage lamas are WRONG including ATISHA . Then why do we have GURU TREE pictures on our altar. LASTLY, what is the point of TIBETAN BUDDHISM, isn't it about LINEAGE and it's teachings!! Where is the logic?

[a friend]

Dear Cleojean,
It's difficult to show enough appreciation for the effort you have put into analyzing the situation and your own mind. Let's live up to the new awareness and friendship that is starting to timidly sprout after so many misunderstandings.
It doesn't matter that we have two quite clearly defined visions about the actions of the Dalai Lama. Before we can truly reflect and ponder such difficult matter it's of capital importance, if we wish this Forum to survive in any meaningful way, that we set aside any hatred among ourselves. Superficial outbursts are of no importance and easily fixed. The athmosphere that we had reached of suspicion and hostility has started to clear up or so it seems. Your position clearly states a willingness to abandon such feelings and I wish with all my heart that all of us end up friends no matter the differences.
After all, do we know the incredible number of Buddhists schools that have sprouted since the Blessed One adorned this Jambudvipa with his holy presence? A lot. Possibly many have even disappeared without a trace. Still, all of them tried to express and live up to the speech of our Lord Buddha. So I am trying to put our differences in that broad context.
No doubt I am going to express my position with total clarity, I cannot do it otherwise. But it never will express any contempt, hatred, dislike or whatnot against others. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. I'm not planning to ruin whatever small things I've reached in my practice by starting the cultivation of hateful thoughts. I'm sure nobody is planning to do that either.
So again, thank you. Thank you for your good mind, for your efforts and your example.
I'm sorry too, from my heart, for any involontary hurt that I might've produced.

And now, let's keep on praying and reflecting about these very difficult, painful matters. May the waves of blessings from the Holy objects of refuge flood this Forum and all worlds !!!

[WisdomBeing]

Hear hear loud and clear, cleo and afriend... this attitude is what Dharma is all about!

**Makes a serkym offering, signs the Dorje Shugden forum peace treaty, liberally sprinkles loving stardust all around and hugs everyone in the forum**

now let's move forward and discuss the issues at hand...

I personally find it interesting that the TGIE's press can do such a thing. It makes no sense to do so. If Trijang Rinpoche's name is removed from the lineage prayer, then the lineage breaks. There'll be a gap from Je pabongkhapa to HHDL. There's no link and hence the blessings of the lineage simply stops at that juncture and is really bad to think that there's power in the prayer.

I really am saddened and shaken by the fact that such a thing can happen with the Tibetan Buddhist community. What are we really preserving here? A heritage of sacred teachings passed down by the Buddha or is just mere manipulation sprung from the egoistic mind?

sad.
H1N1

so if they remove Trijang Rinpoche's name - what happens to the lineage? i thought that an unbroken lineage is crucial to the transmissions of the lineage practices?

what is the implication? and if anyone rejects the Dalai Lama - how does that affect our lineage?

Tk mentioned in his commentary (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1425):
"Zong Rinpoche (previous), Dagom Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche,Geshe Tendar, current Trijang Rinpoche, current Zong Rinpoche, Geshe Rabten, current Pabongka, Gonsar Rinpoche, the oracle monks, Gangchen Rinpoche, Lama Yeshe, Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen, etc etc all took teachings from the 14th Dalai Lama, let’s not forget, at once time or another. So if we have taken teachings from the above lamas, then 14th Dalai lama is also our lineage lama which we must respect. Logical?

Since we say the Dalai lama must respect our lineage lamas such as Pabongka, then we must also reverse the situation and respect the Dalai lama as our lineage lama. So either way, the system is set up for you to ‘lose’. If that is the case, there must be a MUCH BIGGER PICTURE that current infractions with our lineage lamas can be repaired later FOR THE BIGGER PICTURE."

interesting.

[Yeshe]

Hear hear loud and clear, cleo and afriend... this attitude is what Dharma is all about!

**Makes a serkym offering, signs the Dorje Shugden forum peace treaty, liberally sprinkles loving stardust all around and hugs everyone in the forum**

now let's move forward and discuss the issues at hand...

I personally find it interesting that the TGIE's press can do such a thing. It makes no sense to do so. If Trijang Rinpoche's name is removed from the lineage prayer, then the lineage breaks. There'll be a gap from Je pabongkhapa to HHDL. There's no link and hence the blessings of the lineage simply stops at that juncture and is really bad to think that there's power in the prayer.

I really am saddened and shaken by the fact that such a thing can happen with the Tibetan Buddhist community. What are we really preserving here? A heritage of sacred teachings passed down by the Buddha or is just mere manipulation sprung from the egoistic mind?

sad.
H1N1

so if they remove Trijang Rinpoche's name - what happens to the lineage? i thought that an unbroken lineage is crucial to the transmissions of the lineage practices?

what is the implication? and if anyone rejects the Dalai Lama - how does that affect our lineage?

Tk mentioned in his commentary (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1425):
"Zong Rinpoche (previous), Dagom Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche,Geshe Tendar, current Trijang Rinpoche, current Zong Rinpoche, Geshe Rabten, current Pabongka, Gonsar Rinpoche, the oracle monks, Gangchen Rinpoche, Lama Yeshe, Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen, etc etc all took teachings from the 14th Dalai Lama, let’s not forget, at once time or another. So if we have taken teachings from the above lamas, then 14th Dalai lama is also our lineage lama which we must respect. Logical?

Since we say the Dalai lama must respect our lineage lamas such as Pabongka, then we must also reverse the situation and respect the Dalai lama as our lineage lama. So either way, the system is set up for you to ‘lose’. If that is the case, there must be a MUCH BIGGER PICTURE that current infractions with our lineage lamas can be repaired later FOR THE BIGGER PICTURE."

interesting.

I am not sure how it works but I assume that if my root guru who gave me HYT (Heruka and Vajrayogini) empowerments has Trijang as his root guru for the same thing, there is no need for the Dalai Lama to appear anywhere for that lineage to be unbroken, regardless of HHDL having maybe taught my guru other aspects of the path.

I understand that it is possible to have more than one root guru, so a lineage may be transmitted through any of them, I guess.  And I am guessing!

[honeydakini]

I personally find it interesting that the TGIE's press can do such a thing. It makes no sense to do so. If Trijang Rinpoche's name is removed from the lineage prayer, then the lineage breaks. There'll be a gap from Je pabongkhapa to HHDL. There's no link and hence the blessings of the lineage simply stops at that juncture and is really bad to think that there's power in the prayer.

I really am saddened and shaken by the fact that such a thing can happen with the Tibetan Buddhist community. What are we really preserving here? A heritage of sacred teachings passed down by the Buddha or is just mere manipulation sprung from the egoistic mind?

sad.
H1N1

This is interesting.

Does this implicate that teachings given by anyone from Trijang Rinpoche onwards is nullified?

Though somehow I don't think a lineage can be nullified merely by omitting the teacher's names - the blessings of the lineage and that teacher will remain, surely, whether or not he is mentioned!

What is worrying is that then, historically and factually, the authenticity of the lineage becomes slightly compromised, doesn't it? When Gurus give teachings, they always state where they had received that teaching, from which Guru and so on, tracing all the way back to Shakyamuni himself. So if one person starts permitting the removal of names from the lineage, doesn't this set a terribly dangerous precedent? A few hundred years later, we cannot be sure of the lineage that we have really received. It begs the question: if it has been so easy to remove a lineage lama in this day and age, then has it also been done before? And has the lineage we think we are following in fact, been jiggled about? How can we ever be sure then of the authenticity of our lineage and where we're receiving teachings from?

[Helena]

Wasn't Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's name removed from all the prayers and books as well sometime back? TO the point that to search for his incarnation is banned, and that the mere mention of his name is also frowned upon? Hence, is this not proof that they have "doctored" history and changed it according to what they want to project?

Is it not surprising that there is a ban all over again? Erasing of an esteemed Master's name is happening yet again?

They can erase all they want but it does not stop the belief, faith and trust that the students have in their Gurus. Hence, the lineage continues when the students upholds the teachings and transmissions passed onto them by their Gurus and have kept them well and clean. And their students will pass onto their own students. The deletion is in name only. Not in the real sense.

In the case of Enlightened Beings, just because someone decides to ban his incarnation and not search for it, does not necessarily mean that this Enlightened Being has stopped incarnating or emanating all this while. How can a mere mortal halt an Enlightened Being's compassionate work or incarnations/emanations?

It just doesn't sound logical to me.

So, if a tree fell in the forest and just because we didn't see it, does that mean that the tree did not fall?

Even China's invasion of Tibet could not stop Tibet from flourishing. And what is truly the essence of Tibet - beyond its land of snows, its ground and its population? Is it not its sacred jewel teachings?

So, without Pabongka mastering all of them and passing them onto a heart dsiciple that is the perfect vessel that is Trijang Rinpoche, hten the rest of us here and now would not have a single thing. This forum would not even exist in the first place. It would be the end of Gelugpa.

From Trijang Rinpoche, tanother generation of students rose to become Masters in their own right. Each holding the same sacred teachings that Pabongka had passed down to Trijang. These new students have now become the perfect vessels to propagate the lineage throguh their own students. These students are now Masters and they are Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, Zong Rinpoche, etc.

Zong Rinpoche has since passed on, and his new incarnation is now in Gaden. But before Zong Rinpoche passed on, I am sure he must have passed on a great deal to a few heart disciples. As I am sure Geshe Kelsang Gyatso would be doing as well.

Hence, it is in the students that a lineage lives on. NO one can take away the DHARMA that is inside of us.

They can earse all they want, burn books and tear down buildings or statues - as long as a student is still breathing, the lineage continues.

When we began to hold everything within, we become our own temples, centers and a walking breathing living transmission of everything sacred that can be traced all the way to the times of Buddha.

This is my own personal simplistic and personal view.

[honeydakini]

What I find terribly intriguing and really rather illogical is that in spite of removing all these names, banning even the mere mention of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen (it all sounds very Valdemort and Harry Potter, doesn't it!), many of the main monasteries such as Gaden Shartse still widely study PANCHEN SONAM DRAKPA's texts - as their central syllabus for the Geshe qualification, no less! The entire foundation of their learning and teachers arise from scriptures written by the very being they have "BANNED".

Even in the case of more "recently" banned lamas such as pabongkha Rinpoche... His text "Liberation in the palm of your hand" is also still studied in the monasteries. So the entire person is "bad" and "wrong" and most of his teachings and lineage is not valid by virtue of his wrongful practice, but some of his teachings are still regarded as very beneficial, clean and correct? Ironic that "liberation" is Lamrim teachings - the basis of all other practices! So he is correct in this - the very foundation of all all lineage teachings and therefore his own practice - but wrong in all the others?

[Losang_Tenpa]

What I find terribly intriguing and really rather illogical is that in spite of removing all these names, banning even the mere mention of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen (it all sounds very Valdemort and Harry Potter, doesn't it!), many of the main monasteries such as Gaden Shartse still widely study PANCHEN SONAM DRAKPA's texts - as their central syllabus for the Geshe qualification, no less! The entire foundation of their learning and teachers arise from scriptures written by the very being they have "BANNED".

Even in the case of more "recently" banned lamas such as pabongkha Rinpoche... His text "Liberation in the palm of your hand" is also still studied in the monasteries. So the entire person is "bad" and "wrong" and most of his teachings and lineage is not valid by virtue of his wrongful practice, but some of his teachings are still regarded as very beneficial, clean and correct? Ironic that "liberation" is Lamrim teachings - the basis of all other practices! So he is correct in this - the very foundation of all all lineage teachings and therefore his own practice - but wrong in all the others?

I went inside of Gaden Shartse's main prayer hall a few weeks ago and was delighted to see that they still have a huge statue of Panchen Sonam Drakpa. They also still have a throne devoted to Trijang Rinpoche and one devoted to Trisur Rinpoche, Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal. Very cool!

[harrynephew]

Re HH Trijang Rinpoche, I have just read this which Lama Zopa said about him:

"The incarnation of Kyabje Dorje Chang, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, is His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s guru and the lama of all the Tibetan people, so it’s terrible if he’s hidden away in some corner as if there’s something wrong with him. That’s absolutely shameful. Therefore, the people around him have to think very extensively. In his previous life he performed incredibly holy actions; therefore, his present incarnation has the potential to spread Dharma in both the East and the West like the rising sun spreads light."

Even though Lama Zopa's stance is against Shugden, he still saw HH Trijang Rinpoche as such. If only others can see it too.

We need to highlight this issue to the world of Buddhists. How can such a thing happen within the Tibetan community?? It is really absurd, but then again, what's new with the TGIE?

They create controversies which the Tibetans themselves find it hard to believe or abide by. What's new in the event this pulls through? Who's gonna get the sh*t(sorry for the language) in the end? Wouldn't it be His Holiness that would have to step up to cover their sorry as*es? (sorry again)

Has it not been enough damage caused within the community, religion and system as a whole?

Even high Lamas such as His Eminence Lama Zopa is speaking up against such an absurd action. I think the rest of the world should do something to preserve the teachings of the Buddha and especially this holy Lineage of Gaden!

H1N1

[Zach]

Re HH Trijang Rinpoche, I have just read this which Lama Zopa said about him:

"The incarnation of Kyabje Dorje Chang, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, is His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s guru and the lama of all the Tibetan people, so it’s terrible if he’s hidden away in some corner as if there’s something wrong with him. That’s absolutely shameful. Therefore, the people around him have to think very extensively. In his previous life he performed incredibly holy actions; therefore, his present incarnation has the potential to spread Dharma in both the East and the West like the rising sun spreads light."

Even though Lama Zopa's stance is against Shugden, he still saw HH Trijang Rinpoche as such. If only others can see it too.

We need to highlight this issue to the world of Buddhists. How can such a thing happen within the Tibetan community?? It is really absurd, but then again, what's new with the TGIE?

They create controversies which the Tibetans themselves find it hard to believe or abide by. What's new in the event this pulls through? Who's gonna get the sh*t(sorry for the language) in the end? Wouldn't it be His Holiness that would have to step up to cover their sorry as*es? (sorry again)

Has it not been enough damage caused within the community, religion and system as a whole?

Even high Lamas such as His Eminence Lama Zopa is speaking up against such an absurd action. I think the rest of the world should do something to preserve the teachings of the Buddha and especially this holy Lineage of Gaden!

H1N1

Lama zopa ? is standing up as well ? Do you have any evidence of this ?
I find it highly unlikely The FPMT is far to subserviant to the DL.

[shugdenprotect]

It is truly awful that such an attained Master who dedicated His life to benefit us lifetime after lifetime could be treated this way. It is even more frightening to imagine that these events, directly or indirectly, hinders the current incarnation of Trijang Rinpoche from continuing His work to spread pure Dharma so that Dharma will stay longer for the benefit of sentient beings.

There are thoughts that the importance of Guru devotion comes from sincere practice and the removal of Trijang Rinpoche’s name mantra, images etc. is not of utmost importance. I partly agree with this thought. However, what I find worrisome is the severe COLLECTIVE negative karma we are collecting in samsara with such actions.

Clean Guru samaya is the foundation for successful Vajrayana practice. Without clean Guru samaya, how could one consider keeping the 3 sets of vows? With broken vows, how can one believe that negative karma is purified and positive karma for attainments could be gained? With no attainments, how can we think of controlling rebirth and enlightenment? This chain reaction is terrifying.

Additionally, the accumulation of so much collective negative karma can be seen as a cause that quickens the end of Dharma age. With this, we are in a rapid downward journey to the Dark Age.

Therefore, it may “just” be a name but the significance may be more than fathomable. Furthermore, if it is just a name, why don’t we just leave it there and not hasten the already swift degeneration of our time?

[Helena]

Being trapped in samsara is definitely a clear sign that we all have collective bad karma. And every single moment we spend in samsara is designed to collect more bad karma. The only way is what the Great Masters have done and this is something I have begun to seriously contemplate on, it is no wonder the Great Masters keep stressing on renunciation.

They have all chosen the life of monastic vows and studies, and not be actively living in samsara. It is no wonder that all High reincarnated Lamas must be found at a young age and begin their studies in the monastery. It is not to deny anyone of anything that is valuable but really to save them all from everything that is contaminated, and will contaminate them further.

Hence, the only way out is total renunciation from samsara - of the body, speech and mind. And to start and end with the mind is really the hardest of all.

Now, more than ever, I have come to respect monks even more. They truly understand where the exit door lies.

A whole lot of us are still trapped inside and thinking that the little Dharma that we get will free us in every sense of the word.

The world needs more GREAT MASTERS. We truly do, and we need to really value them, honour them and remember them with every breath we take.   

[honeydakini]

Re HH Trijang Rinpoche, I have just read this which Lama Zopa said about him:

"The incarnation of Kyabje Dorje Chang, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, is His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s guru and the lama of all the Tibetan people, so it’s terrible if he’s hidden away in some corner as if there’s something wrong with him. That’s absolutely shameful. Therefore, the people around him have to think very extensively. In his previous life he performed incredibly holy actions; therefore, his present incarnation has the potential to spread Dharma in both the East and the West like the rising sun spreads light."

Even though Lama Zopa's stance is against Shugden, he still saw HH Trijang Rinpoche as such. If only others can see it too.

y

Even high Lamas such as His Eminence Lama Zopa is speaking up against such an absurd action. I think the rest of the world should do something to preserve the teachings of the Buddha and especially this holy Lineage of Gaden!

H1N1

Lama zopa ? is standing up as well ? Do you have any evidence of this ?
I find it highly unlikely The FPMT is far to subserviant to the DL.

Zach, I think HarryNephew refers specifically to this instance when Lama Zopa speaks up for Trijang Rinpoche's good qualities and notes how terrible it would be if he "is hidden away" which is practically what is happening now. Indirectly, it could be seen as "standing up"...  though more in the sense of defending Trijang Rinpoche (and therefore DS practitioners?) than as a challenge.   

I do not know what FPMT's policy is as a whole or even as individual centres, but what has struck me about the explanations I've read of Lama Zopa, his stances is very respectful towards the dalai lama and encourages people to not practice DS out of respect to the dalai lama etc but on the other hand, I have not heard him speak badly or offensively in any way against DS. The stance is more in deference and respect to DL than to bash DS, which is quite a different view that what is more commonly propagated against DL supporters.