Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's Name mantra removed!!

[harrynephew]

Re HH Trijang Rinpoche, I have just read this which Lama Zopa said about him:

"The incarnation of Kyabje Dorje Chang, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, is His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s guru and the lama of all the Tibetan people, so it’s terrible if he’s hidden away in some corner as if there’s something wrong with him. That’s absolutely shameful. Therefore, the people around him have to think very extensively. In his previous life he performed incredibly holy actions; therefore, his present incarnation has the potential to spread Dharma in both the East and the West like the rising sun spreads light."

Even though Lama Zopa's stance is against Shugden, he still saw HH Trijang Rinpoche as such. If only others can see it too.

y

Even high Lamas such as His Eminence Lama Zopa is speaking up against such an absurd action. I think the rest of the world should do something to preserve the teachings of the Buddha and especially this holy Lineage of Gaden!

H1N1

Lama zopa ? is standing up as well ? Do you have any evidence of this ?
I find it highly unlikely The FPMT is far to subserviant to the DL.

Zach, I think HarryNephew refers specifically to this instance when Lama Zopa speaks up for Trijang Rinpoche's good qualities and notes how terrible it would be if he "is hidden away" which is practically what is happening now. Indirectly, it could be seen as "standing up"...  though more in the sense of defending Trijang Rinpoche (and therefore DS practitioners?) than as a challenge.   

I do not know what FPMT's policy is as a whole or even as individual centres, but what has struck me about the explanations I've read of Lama Zopa, his stances is very respectful towards the dalai lama and encourages people to not practice DS out of respect to the dalai lama etc but on the other hand, I have not heard him speak badly or offensively in any way against DS. The stance is more in deference and respect to DL than to bash DS, which is quite a different view that what is more commonly propagated against DL supporters.

Thank u HD for pointing my intent out. Indeed at this juncture all Lamas owe their kindness to the great Holiness Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang for all direct and indirect transmissions of the Dharma under the glorious parasol of Je Tsongkhapa's incomparable Dharma of Gaden. Where has this spirit of protecting our lineage gone? Are we not to stay true and loyal to what we practice? Let alone what we preach?

C'mon people, speak up!!!

It is time we petition the high Lamas of our time to speak from compassion in all the aspects to bring out the truth of DS! It will be one way to usher in the time of our Lord Dharma and Protector.

Let's start listing down the Dharma centres and monastries which have association with Dorje Shugden in the past and ask them to compassionately bring this subject up to the public.

H1N1

[Zach]

On the subject of Lama zopa i had an odd dream where he died last night...

[WisdomBeing]

Lama zopa ? is standing up as well ? Do you have any evidence of this ?
I find it highly unlikely The FPMT is far to subserviant to the DL.

Dear Zach,

Lama Zopa is not 'standing up' for Shugden. He has been advocating that members of FPMT not practice Shugden but his reasoning is interesting. He supports the ban because of the Dalai Lama's achievements and influence.

In Lama Zopa's Advice book (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1166), it is quite clear what Lama Zopa thinks. I quote:

"Therefore, it becomes very important to support His Holiness and to fulfil His Holiness’ wishes. For that reason, Kopan Monastery stopped doing this practice. This was done for His Holiness. This does not mean that Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, and His Holiness Zong Rinpoche have made mistakes. It does not mean they are wrong. Nor does one have to look at the protector as evil."

With relations to abandoning one's Guru, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, Lama Zopa said this:

"A student wrote to Rinpoche saying that he had forsaken one of his gurus, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The student said that he was not keeping his vows and was aware of the negative karma that could result from these actions. Rinpoche answered as follows.

Once you have made a Dharma connection with the virtuous friend, your guru, you cannot give up this relationship unless the guru himself or herself says, “Don’t come,” or “Don’t regard me as your guru.”

By giving up Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, you have created heavy negative karma in this life. Since you haven’t given me up, I suggest that you confess to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso about what happened, and devote yourself again to this virtuous friend."

Lama Zopa calls Geshe Kelsang Gyatso "this virtuous friend".. while the TGIE has called him the devil incarnate (ok my own words but you know the idea)..

It is these subtle ways that Lama Zopa expresses support for Shugden while towing the Dalai Lama line.

I hope this helps, Zach.

 

[crazycloud]

It is these subtle ways that Lama Zopa expresses support for Shugden while towing the Dalai Lama line.

I hope this helps, Zach.

 

Elsewhere in the same speech, Lama Zopa clearly states several times that Dorje Shugden is a worldly ghost.

This can hardly be characterized as 'support' for Dorje Shugden if you think about it.

Lama Zopa is trying to give advice to help practitioners avoid breaking their guru devotion.

[WisdomBeing]

It is these subtle ways that Lama Zopa expresses support for Shugden while towing the Dalai Lama line.

I hope this helps, Zach.

 

Elsewhere in the same speech, Lama Zopa clearly states several times that Dorje Shugden is a worldly ghost.

This can hardly be characterized as 'support' for Dorje Shugden if you think about it.

Lama Zopa is trying to give advice to help practitioners avoid breaking their guru devotion.

I believe that Lama Zopa is trying to be politically correct but he is quite inconsistent in his referral to DS as a worldly ghost. I think it's great that Lama Zopa advises people to keep their guru devotion - because the Dalai lama's edict is effectively telling people to break their guru devotion by abandoning a practice given by their guru. In that sense, i feel Lama Zopa is being supportive.

[crazycloud]

It is these subtle ways that Lama Zopa expresses support for Shugden while towing the Dalai Lama line.

I hope this helps, Zach.

 

Elsewhere in the same speech, Lama Zopa clearly states several times that Dorje Shugden is a worldly ghost.

This can hardly be characterized as 'support' for Dorje Shugden if you think about it.

Lama Zopa is trying to give advice to help practitioners avoid breaking their guru devotion.

I believe that Lama Zopa is trying to be politically correct but he is quite inconsistent in his referral to DS as a worldly ghost. I think it's great that Lama Zopa advises people to keep their guru devotion - because the Dalai lama's edict is effectively telling people to break their guru devotion by abandoning a practice given by their guru. In that sense, i feel Lama Zopa is being supportive.

yes, I agree, it is inspiring that even in the heat of the controversy Lama Zopa has the courage to support true Buddhist views even when it puts him in an awkward position to do so.

Though it's true that, as you say, in a sense he is being supportive, I'm afraid I can't agree he is being in any way supportive of Shugden.  I think that's going too far and gives Lama Zopa a sympathetic look that he actually does not earn in his speech about Dorje Shugden or his treatment of practitioners, instituting the ban in his centers. Shameful behaviour, really.

On the other hand, to your point, he also did put in a line suggesting that it would be very heavy negative karma if one did critisize and DS were a Buddha, so maybe you have a point. Can't remember the actual line, it's been a while.

expresses support for Shugden while towing the Dalai Lama line.

The expression you want here is actually toeing the line and refers to placing your toes right on a line such as a starting line or other demarcation. It's funny how we can so easily misunderstand idioms even after hearing them literally hundreds of times. In a strange turn of events, I just learned earlier this evening that the word is "somersault," not "sombersalt" with a "b." I've been saying it with that "b" sound my whole life, never caught it.

cheers.

[Zach]

Lama zopa ? is standing up as well ? Do you have any evidence of this ?
I find it highly unlikely The FPMT is far to subserviant to the DL.

Dear Zach,

Lama Zopa is not 'standing up' for Shugden. He has been advocating that members of FPMT not practice Shugden but his reasoning is interesting. He supports the ban because of the Dalai Lama's achievements and influence.

In Lama Zopa's Advice book (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1166), it is quite clear what Lama Zopa thinks. I quote:

"Therefore, it becomes very important to support His Holiness and to fulfil His Holiness’ wishes. For that reason, Kopan Monastery stopped doing this practice. This was done for His Holiness. This does not mean that Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, and His Holiness Zong Rinpoche have made mistakes. It does not mean they are wrong. Nor does one have to look at the protector as evil."

With relations to abandoning one's Guru, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, Lama Zopa said this:

"A student wrote to Rinpoche saying that he had forsaken one of his gurus, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The student said that he was not keeping his vows and was aware of the negative karma that could result from these actions. Rinpoche answered as follows.

Once you have made a Dharma connection with the virtuous friend, your guru, you cannot give up this relationship unless the guru himself or herself says, “Don’t come,” or “Don’t regard me as your guru.”

By giving up Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, you have created heavy negative karma in this life. Since you haven’t given me up, I suggest that you confess to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso about what happened, and devote yourself again to this virtuous friend."

Lama Zopa calls Geshe Kelsang Gyatso "this virtuous friend".. while the TGIE has called him the devil incarnate (ok my own words but you know the idea)..

It is these subtle ways that Lama Zopa expresses support for Shugden while towing the Dalai Lama line.

I hope this helps, Zach.

 

Certainly is interesting kate...But non the less many of his students and Lama yeshes where and still are Shugden practitoners what does that say about the person who institutes as ban based on Non Dharmic politics...It is a little like of the story where a Non Buddhist says to a practitoner to give up his refuge, He refused is a killed and immediatly reborn in the higher realms...Apart from its the opposite. 

[Helena]

I agree with what Kate wrote.

I think High Lamas have to be skillful in their ways and means of NOT going against DL and TGIE. Their subtle ways speak the loudest. Subtlety does not necessarily mean weak or unsupportive. Sometimes the most obvious acts or ways may not produce much effect, and may not necessarily say anything at all.

I am sure we are used to people who speak the "loudest" and say a lot, but yet convey nothing. Nothing of value, that is.

The High Lamas have much to lose when they speak out so openly. There are many other monks under their care and responsibility. Not everyone are able to endure harsh living conditions. Some people can, and kudos to them. But we cannot discriminate against those who cannot either. We are not living their lives and we are not subject to their everyday conditions. So, it is very difficult to judge from where we stand or sit.

I am very sure when DL passes away (I say this with great repsect), we will the truth behind all these farce.

The shadow play will be over then.

[crazycloud]

The High Lamas have much to lose when they speak out so openly. There are many other monks under their care and responsibility. Not everyone are able to endure harsh living conditions. Some people can, and kudos to them. But we cannot discriminate against those who cannot either. We are not living their lives and we are not subject to their everyday conditions. So, it is very difficult to judge from where we stand or sit.

I am very sure when DL passes away (I say this with great repsect), we will the truth behind all these farce.

The shadow play will be over then.

good point.