Dorje Shugden and Vaishravana

[Ratna Shugden]

In Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors, page 107, there's a verse:

Then, having gone toward Tashi Lhunpo in Tsang,
Because of a slight inauspicious occurrence,
You immediately went to Sakya in a wrathful manner,
And were enthroned as a senior Dharma protector, praise to you!

Dragpa Gyaltsen, because he had himself previously studied much profound Dharma with Panchen Lozang Chokyi Gyaltsen, after he arose in a wrathful form, he intended to go to Tashi Lhunpo to go before the Panchen, king of Dharma and be a protector of Tashi Lhunpo Monastery. When he arrived, he saw the Eight Vaishravana Horse?Lordsxxxix holding hands on the ling kor, the route encircling Tashi Lhunpo, in a protective manner, making it a bit inauspicious for him to go in that direction, so in a manner of wrath he immediately went to Sakya,

Does this have any effect on practising both Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Vaishravana, at the same time?

[LosangKhyentse]

No, it does not.

1. Vaishravana has many entourages that are not enlightened also.
2. It was not time to enter into the Gelug School as a protector yet.
3. He was to manifest in Sakya first. From there spread into the Gelug.

Vaishravana has zero conflicts with Dorje Shugden. Vaishravana is not the only protector of the great Tashi Lunpo institution. In fact one of the primary protectors of Panchen Lamas is Four Faced Mahakala. Four Faced Mahakala was the principle protector of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen.

Four Faced Mahakala has a very close and intimate relationship with Dorje Shugden. Dorje Shugden, Maha Setrap and Four Faced Mahakala are very close and have very close links to eachother. In fact Setrap resides on the 1st floor of Dorje Shugden's divine palace and on the floor above that is Amitabah.

TK

[Ratna Shugden]

Thank You very much, your answers was very enlightening. I have been worried as to whether or not someone will be able to answer this question!

[DharmaDefender]

I've always been taught that Dorje Shugden and Setrap are brothers, and to propitiate Dorje Shugden is to invoke Setrap's blessings too. Both as enlightened dharma protectors bring the same blessings.

To add to tk's response (although I don't have an actual basis for this, I'm just extrapolating from what I know), I think that verse points to Dorje Shugden's absolute lack of ego for leaving to another monastery, so as not to appear like he was 'competing' with Vaishravana. No doubt he could have done since Dorje Shugden's practice is every bit as valid as Vaishravana's, but if Vaishravana's is valid too, why the need for another/second Dharma Protector?

[thor]

I've always been taught that Dorje Shugden and Setrap are brothers, and to propitiate Dorje Shugden is to invoke Setrap's blessings too. Both as enlightened dharma protectors bring the same blessings.

There MAY some basis to what you say about a connection between Dorje Shugden and Setrab-chen. This thangka shows what appears to be Setrab above Dorje Shugden in his mandala.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/practice-ds01.jpg

Likewise, a prayer to Setrab is included in Shugden's short sadhana

Especially, principal guardian of Buddhadharma,
Setrab Chen and your entourage,
Offering you nectar that bestows bliss,
Spontaneously grant our every wish! (3x)

(full sadhana here http://www.dorjeshugden.com/practice-shortsadhana.htm)

[Ratna Shugden]

Does anyone here know the distinct difference in terms of blessings and protection given to the faithful between Dorje Shugden and Setrab-chen? Although all Dharma Protectors are ultimately emanations of Vajradhara, each protector manifest giving different benefits when invoked. So, specifically how does Setrab-Chen help Dharma practitioners? I am asking this because I don't know much about Setrab-Chen.

[Lineageholder]

In the Kangso practised by the New Kadampa Tradition, in the description of Dorje Shugden's mandala it says:

"Above the highest part of the palace is Amitabha, the Buddha of Infinite Light; and in the intermediate space there is the great Protector, the powerful Pure One, together with his retinue."

My understanding is that this protector, the powerful Pure One is Setrap Chen, who is Buddha Amitabha appearing in the form of a Dharma Protector.  Therefore I would say that Dorje Shugden and Setrap Chen have a very close connection indeed!

[WisdomBeing]

Re Dorje Shugden and Setrab, I read in the book, "Oracles and Demons" by René de Nebesky-Wojkowitz that Setrab actually assisted Dorje Shugden and I have also heard that they are in the same mandala, as Lineageholder says. Not that I want Setrap to be banned, but it seems illogical that Setrap is allowed to remain as Dharma Protector of Gaden Shartse but Dorje Shugden is banned.

Re the question re the difference between Setrap and Dorje Shugden, i think that both are enlightened Beings - Setrap as the wrathful emanation of Amitabha and Dorje Shugden as the wrathful Manjushri, Avalokiteshvara and Vajrapani. So both give equal blessings and protection. However, Dorje Shugden is more suitable for this current time... so that is why his time is here now. 

[DSFriend]

No doubt he could have done since Dorje Shugden's practice is every bit as valid as Vaishravana's, but if Vaishravana's is valid too, why the need for another/second Dharma Protector?

Buddhas manifest in different forms out of compassion. A Protector who manifested during Shakyamuni's time 2500 years ago is powerful and still is as powerful. However due to time, karma, delusions, on our side, the Protector may not be as "powerful or effective" (with respect)  In this case, Dorje Shugden manifested 360 years ago specifically for this time. Thus, there is a need for a "new" Dharma Protector.

sincerely
DSFriend

[DharmaDefender]

Buddhas manifest in different forms out of compassion. A Protector who manifested during Shakyamuni's time 2500 years ago is powerful and still is as powerful. However due to time, karma, delusions, on our side, the Protector may not be as "powerful or effective" (with respect)  In this case, Dorje Shugden manifested 360 years ago specifically for this time. Thus, there is a need for a "new" Dharma Protector.

sincerely
DSFriend

Couldn't have said it better myself but if there were a need for a second Dharma Protector there, I figure DS would've stayed?

However, Dorje Shugden is more suitable for this current time... so that is why his time is here now. 

More suitable as predicted by His Holiness Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, who also predicted the blessings of Vajrayogini to be more potent in this age as well. And if you have a look at all of the large dharma centres around the world, the main focus of many of them is Vajrayogini, so Pabongka Rinpoche's predictions clearly have basis!

[Ensapa]

Does anyone here know the distinct difference in terms of blessings and protection given to the faithful between Dorje Shugden and Setrab-chen? Although all Dharma Protectors are ultimately emanations of Vajradhara, each protector manifest giving different benefits when invoked. So, specifically how does Setrab-Chen help Dharma practitioners? I am asking this because I don't know much about Setrab-Chen.

Hi Ratna,

there is no distinct differences between the blessings of all of the Dharma protectors. They are but water in different shaped containers, like the case of Yidams and the Guru. Hence, it does not make much sense to practice many yidams and dharma protectors and take on many Gurus, unless we have accomplished them and we take their teachings for the sake of passing down the lineage for people who need them, because to take on so many lineages without mastering even one of them shows nothing but lack of wisdom and mastery and focus, the qualities important to be successful for a Dharma practitioner. There is no difference between the blessings of all the Dharma protectors there are, but there is a difference on our side as we have different karmic dispositions, formed by our ignorance. To accommodate and suit this differences, the Buddha has kindly taken up many different kinds of appearances and forms that suit our various karmic dispositions, but they are in reality, one and the same in nature.

To see all traditions as distinct entity and thus the need to learn them all since they are distinct is inherently a sectarian view but to master one tradition and then learn about the other traditions is not sectarian to me as it shows that we understand perfectly the nature of the various traditions and we act in accordance with that. This is sadly, not what the CTA promotes to people these days and people think that being nonsectarian is to be the jack of all trades but master of none. With that said, there is no difference between Dorje Shugden, Setrap or Mahakala in reality, nor is there any difference between Dorje Shugden, Manjushri, Tsongkhapa or Shakyamuni. It is only due to our karmic disposition that we see it as distinct and different.

[dsiluvu]

Does anyone here know the distinct difference in terms of blessings and protection given to the faithful between Dorje Shugden and Setrab-chen? Although all Dharma Protectors are ultimately emanations of Vajradhara, each protector manifest giving different benefits when invoked. So, specifically how does Setrab-Chen help Dharma practitioners? I am asking this because I don't know much about Setrab-Chen.

Dear Ratna.... the blessings would be the same... it is just sometimes depends on the individuals affinity with the protector. But Setrab and Dorje Shugden are like brothers and when you invoke in one, you also indirectly invoke in Lord Dorje Shugden I believe as they reside in the same mandala.

Here is a little history about Lord Setrab and his relationship with Dorje Shugden....

Lord Setrab is actually an ancient protector who can be traced back to the days of Shakyamuni Buddha, from Bodhgaya where Shakyamuni was enlightened. Lord Setrab is an emanation of Buddha Amitabha who had sworn to Buddha Shakyamuni to protect the teachings of Buddhism in general. Hence, Lord Setrab is definitely an Enlightened Protector.

The practice of Lord Setrab was brought to Tibet by Loden Sherab who also painstakingly brought many of Buddha’s teachings from India to Tibet. Since then, this Dharma Protector has been practiced by many people and benefited countless sentient beings.

Lord Setrab has also been the Dharma Protector of Ganden Shartse Monastery for over 600 years. There are also Khamtsens in Drepung Loseling that take Setrab as their main protector up till today such as Nyagre Khamtsen. Many of the great Dharma teachers today take Lord Setrab as their Dharma Protector as it has been proven over the years that the practice of Lord Setrab is authentic and effective.

How is Lord Setrab connected to Dorje Shugden?

Although Dorje Shugden and Lord Setrab are Dharma Protectors in their own right, both are closely connected through the past life of Dorje Shugden who is Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen.

As Lord Setrab was one of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen’s main Protectors, they must have had a very close bond that even until today, both are still very much connected. Even in the celestial Mandala of Dorje Shugden resides Lord Setrab on the second level. This shows that they have a very special relationship with one another. They abide in the same divine mandala palace.

Many years back when Dorje Shugden was said to be a spirit, many rituals and fire pujas was performed to destroy the Great King. But because Dorje Shugden is an Enlightened Protector, he could not be destroyed in any way. During those times, only Lord Setrab manifested assistance towards his close friend, Dorje Shugden.

There is a story that says when Mingling Terchen performed a wrathful fire puja on Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, Lord Setrab emanated a celestial mansion in the sky as Mingling was about to start the puja. This act distracted Mingling Terchen’s mind for a moment while giving enough time for Gyalchen Dorje Shugden to escape.

With Lord Setrab, an Enlightened Protector, manifesting assistance towards Dorje Shugden over and over again, it must be true that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit but instead an enlightened Being who has taken an oath to protect Lama Tsongkapa’s teachings.