The Future of the Gelugpa Vajrayana Lineage

[DharmapalasDharma]

With divisions in Dharma communities based on the actions of His Holiness the Dalai Lama will any changes happen involving this DS issue? His Holiness has criticised and/or denounced many high lamas both past and present for following Shugden. Such lamas as Kyabje Trijang DorjeChang are having their prayers taken out of text. His reincarnation Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche is being told to end his practice to keep monastic vows and rites directly by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. His Holiness Ganden Tripa is probably in trouble for joining Shar Gaden. Gangchen Rinpoche was recently denounced by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Lama Zopa Rinpoche is ending his practice given to him by Lama Yeshe and encouraging this view across the FPMT. People protest at His Holinesses teachings but he refuses to listen. Will the Tibetan Gelugpa Tradition be split in half forever? What if Tibet becomes free or even independent? Will this Shugden law still be in place? Even if Shugdenpas regain religious freedom will they still be seen as bad in the eyes of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. I hope this ban ends and Shar Gaden can rejoin Ganden Shartse.

Peace,Love,Tashi Delek

[Zach]

Well seeing as effectivley the DL is renouncing his kind precious teachers, he is also renouncing as the lineage blessings as well...So for those who follow the DL as there Vajra master should not count upon receiving the blessings of the lineage as they have effectivley broken with it.
The Gelugpa tradition i think will end because of what the DL has started, and from its place those following their guru's true to their teachings will be the holders of the lineage.

[a friend]

The Gelugpa tradition i think will end because of what the DL has started, and from its place those following their guru's true to their teachings will be the holders of the lineage.

Dear Zach,
I agree with what you are saying. Please allow me to do a paraphrasis of your words.
Those who adhere to what the DL has started are in reality cut from the Gelugpa tradition, which continues and will gloriously prevail thanks to those following our lineage Gurus Kyabjes Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Dorjechang, and preserving the treasury of Dharma that they entrusted us with. The followers of our Gurus are the holders and defenders of the lineage. Hopefully we are going to be able to be a bridge for this salvific lineage to reach the next generations.

[Zach]

The Gelugpa tradition i think will end because of what the DL has started, and from its place those following their guru's true to their teachings will be the holders of the lineage.

Dear Zach,
I agree with what you are saying. Please allow me to do a paraphrasis of your words.
Those who adhere to what the DL has started are in reality cut from the Gelugpa tradition, which continues and will gloriously prevail thanks to those following our lineage Gurus Kyabjes Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Dorjechang, and preserving the treasury of Dharma that they entrusted us with. The followers of our Gurus are the holders and defenders of the lineage. Hopefully we are going to be able to be a bridge for this salvific lineage to reach the next generations.



Yup Yup ! 
Of course once DL enters clear light then we shall see how many jump from his side of the fence once the power that be has disapated...If the DL is pushing for the Karmapa to succeed him then doubtless many people will jump the fence.
After all theres not alot you can say or do to change anything when you have a religious dictate in effect.
But im glad to know see that the protector has provided us with Shar gaden and Serpom so it is definite with all the holy masters there that those looking for guidence will inevitabley return to the fold...I hope.

[WisdomBeing]

I think it is not so constructive to have conjecture as to where the future of Gelugpa tradition lies because only time will tell... the Gelugpa tradition may evolve and we should not be too attached to how we think it should be. Perhaps Shar Gaden will rejoin with Gaden Shartse, and perhaps it will not. But the most important thing for us is to be faithful to our Guru, our lineage of Lama Tsongkhapa and our Protector Dorje Shugden.

[a friend]

Conjectures about politics are insignificant.
The future of the Gelugpa tradition lies with the Lamas and practitioners that didn't cut themselves from the source, it lies with those who kept the samaya with our Gurus. It does not matter if they did it publicly or secretly, what matters is their minds.

I don't know much about remedies in this case, but I hope with all my heart that all of those that did break samaya will have the opportunity to come back to the sacred lineage of our Lord Tsongkapa.

[Ensapa]

With divisions in Dharma communities based on the actions of His Holiness the Dalai Lama will any changes happen involving this DS issue? His Holiness has criticised and/or denounced many high lamas both past and present for following Shugden. Such lamas as Kyabje Trijang DorjeChang are having their prayers taken out of text. His reincarnation Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche is being told to end his practice to keep monastic vows and rites directly by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. His Holiness Ganden Tripa is probably in trouble for joining Shar Gaden. Gangchen Rinpoche was recently denounced by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Lama Zopa Rinpoche is ending his practice given to him by Lama Yeshe and encouraging this view across the FPMT. People protest at His Holinesses teachings but he refuses to listen. Will the Tibetan Gelugpa Tradition be split in half forever? What if Tibet becomes free or even independent? Will this Shugden law still be in place? Even if Shugdenpas regain religious freedom will they still be seen as bad in the eyes of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. I hope this ban ends and Shar Gaden can rejoin Ganden Shartse.

Peace,Love,Tashi Delek

If there is a split, it would be a temporary one as the wheat needs to be separated from the chaff. There has not been much news of Ganden, Sera and Drepung after the split but there has been lots of activities going on with Shar Ganden and Serpom, so what does that tell us? I personally dont like to see the parting of Gelug into the Shugden and non Shugden side, but as history tells us, conflicts usually help to strengthen bonds and encourage improvements. The world united as we know today due to World War 2. If that did not happen, people would not have learnt of the hardship of wars and industrialization would not have taken place. Through this temporary split, the Ganden tradition will only become stronger and more united when the ban is lifted as people learn the hard way that splits do not benefit anyone and unity is more important than anything else. I doubt it will be a permanent one.

If anything that we can learn from the ban, it is that keeping samaya with the Guru is far more important than being politically correct in any way. Because as time will pass, it will be crystal clear that those who want to be politically correct will not gain any attainments and will stagnate or degenerate. Those who hold on to Guru devotion will continue to grow and gain attainments. And when everyone has learnt of this lesson, the ban would perhaps be lifted. In the meantime, lets just be strong and hold on to Trijang Rinpoche's advice on how to deal with this situation: hang in tight, do not give up our Guru's words, nor should be despise the Dalai Lama. This website, this movement and everyone here embodies that advice, although once in a while, some of us do have philosophical disagreements, but we are all still Gelug and we share the same lineage Gurus as well as the same Dharma protector. Never forget. Never.

[Dorje Pakmo]

Dear Ensapa,

I strongly agree with what you've said.

Those who hold on to Guru devotion will continue to grow and gain attainments. And when everyone has learnt of this lesson, the ban would perhaps be lifted. In the meantime, lets just be strong and hold on to Trijang Rinpoche's advice on how to deal with this situation: hang in tight, do not give up our Guru's words, nor should be despise the Dalai Lama. This website, this movement and everyone here embodies that advice, although once in a while, some of us do have philosophical disagreements, but we are all still Gelug and we share the same lineage Gurus as well as the same Dharma protector. Never forget. Never.

The core practice of Vajrayana Buddhism's is Guru devotion. Holding on the the pure teachings passed down by so many generations of highly attained masters can never be wrong. The ban may seem to have divided the Gelugs but I think there is a lesson to be learnt from this ban. That is HOW STRONG is one's Guru devotion? Will everyone stop practising DORJE SHUGDEN because HHDL say so? And if YES, then what about all the great lineage masters who taught this holy holy practice? A practice that even HHDL spent most of his life practising? To blindly follow or to check deeply before betraying the kindness of all the great masters who passed down this practice due to compassion? Think....

As spoken by Ensapa, while holding on to our practice, we should follow Trijang Rinpoche's advice on how to deal with this situation: hang in tight, do not give up our Guru's words, nor should be despise the Dalai Lama. I have great faith when the ban is lifted. The Gelugpa Vajrayana Lineage will be much stronger than ever.
 

[vajrastorm]

I agree with WB that the Gelugpa tradition may evolve into something else bearing another name(label?). 

So long as the ban is lifted, so long as Dorje Shugden comes into his own as Protector of Je Tsongkapa's teachings to ensure the wildfire spread of these teachings , so long as the Gelug Lineage teachings and practices (which Pabongka Rinpoche so carefully put together and passed on through Trijang Rinpoche and other great Masters) are preserved and spread, so long as great Gelug and devoted Shugden Lamas of today are free to grow and spread Je Tsongkapa's teachings and Shugden practice , so long as Gelug and Shugden practitioners continue to practice full guru devotion, then all be well.  The future of the lineage teachings and practices will, in essence, endure.

[Ensapa]

I agree with WB that the Gelugpa tradition may evolve into something else bearing another name(label?). 

So long as the ban is lifted, so long as Dorje Shugden comes into his own as Protector of Je Tsongkapa's teachings to ensure the wildfire spread of these teachings , so long as the Gelug Lineage teachings and practices (which Pabongka Rinpoche so carefully put together and passed on through Trijang Rinpoche and other great Masters) are preserved and spread, so long as great Gelug and devoted Shugden Lamas of today are free to grow and spread Je Tsongkapa's teachings and Shugden practice , so long as Gelug and Shugden practitioners continue to practice full guru devotion, then all be well.  The future of the lineage teachings and practices will, in essence, endure.

I dont think Gelugpa will evolve into a different name, although several Lamas, notably Geshe Keslang Gyatso and Serkong Tritul have taken it in their own hands to establish a tradition that is separate from Gelug, retaining only the Dharma but doing away with the traditional rites and rituals that are found in Gelug including divination and tulkus. They both call them the Kadhampa tradition. Somehow, i get this strange feeling that it is just a temporary measure and they will become part of Gelug again once the ban is lifted. the main point of the renaming is really to show everyone that the ban itself is a very sectarian act and it splits the Gelug school apart and thus, it is wrong as it does not promote harmony. Perhaps, Serkong Tritul's tradition will rejoin Gelug once the ban is lifted and all its political mess is sorted out, if not it will continue to remain separate. New Kadampa is already very well established, and even bigger, grander and larger than mainstream Gelug itself so they do not have a reason or need to rejoin.

Lama Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden's teachings do match and are the same because Dorje Shugden is one of Lama Tsongkhapa's direct disciples and they share the same philosophy and foundation. It does not make sense to accuse Dorje Shugden as sectarian because he does not encourage taking teachings from other traditions, but neither did Tsongkhapa encourage that practice too. It would be interesting for people to find a passage where Lama Tsongkhapa extols his students to seek many different types of practices from all the various traditions. Lama Tsongkhapa did not say that, but neither did he say not to but he said "follow this way". So it is obvious that if we want to follow Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings, we should subscribe to his method. In this way and from this view, Dorje Shugden is a completely valid protector of Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings.

[DharmaSpace]

I really hope you are right Ensapa. All the offshoots from the Gelugpa tradition should rejoin together again once the ban is lifted. I would think the Green Kadhampas and NKT were merely doing a split so they can not be affected or come under the influence of the ban. I could imagine the times when the ban started to be enforced by the Dalai Lama strictly what was running through the minds of the monks and lamas who have relied on Dorje Shugden for countless lifetimes. How much worry and anxiety they had to go through during those dark periods. The Green Kadhampas still rely on the oracles it is only NKT who have abandoned this. Still NKT or Geshe Kelsang have his vision for the future so perhaps this way benefits the Western psyche much more.

[Ensapa]

I really hope you are right Ensapa. All the offshoots from the Gelugpa tradition should rejoin together again once the ban is lifted. I would think the Green Kadhampas and NKT were merely doing a split so they can not be affected or come under the influence of the ban. I could imagine the times when the ban started to be enforced by the Dalai Lama strictly what was running through the minds of the monks and lamas who have relied on Dorje Shugden for countless lifetimes. How much worry and anxiety they had to go through during those dark periods. The Green Kadhampas still rely on the oracles it is only NKT who have abandoned this. Still NKT or Geshe Kelsang have his vision for the future so perhaps this way benefits the Western psyche much more.

The main and only reason for them to offshoot is because of the ban. If the ban is removed, there is no reason at all for them to be separate anymore. Then, is there any reason for them to still be separate? If there is not, why would they still be separate? This is my thinking and my logical conclusion to the whole separation thing. Different DS Lamas have different approaches to this issue: Lama Gangchen chooses to benefit others in a different direction from the CTA: whatever places that the CTA has missed out or has no influence in, Lama Gangchen seemed to have grown and flourished there, including China, Italy, Bhutan and the UN peace council. I have not heard of Lama Gangchen talking anything about Dorje Shugden at all as it is not exactly necessary for him to do so to spread the Dharma. It is CTA's loss that Gangchen Rinpoche is unable to benefit them at all. He is Medicine Buddha on earth and his ability to heal is better than any doctor CTA can get.

on NKT, perhaps their current model suits their purpose and their needs best as without a doubt, Geshe Keslang would have already tailored it to suit the dispositions of the western students. The system he established in NKT is very similar to the one in Ganden monastery, where the head abbot retires and the next one takes over. GKG has retired already and NKT has a new spiritual head now. GKG is more or less empowering more and more westerners to partake the Dharma and to become real lineage holders, so i doubt he needs to ever return back to CTA ever as they are already rock solid on their own.

[dsiluvu]

Well seeing as effectivley the DL is renouncing his kind precious teachers, he is also renouncing as the lineage blessings as well...So for those who follow the DL as there Vajra master should not count upon receiving the blessings of the lineage as they have effectivley broken with it.
The Gelugpa tradition i think will end because of what the DL has started, and from its place those following their guru's true to their teachings will be the holders of the lineage.

Yes that is true what you said that the blessings of the lineage masters would have been cut once you denounce one's own Guru. However, I do not think that this will end the Gelugpa lineage and I agree that this separation is but perhaps a temporary one and once the ban is lifted... I am quite certain that most will regroup or join back and continue the Gelugpa lineage... well at least those who are still loyal and continues to practice will definitely carry one the Gelug lineage.

But like what WB said we should not be too attached to how we think it should be. Perhaps Shar Gaden will rejoin with Gaden Shartse, and perhaps it will not. But the most important thing for us is to be faithful to our Guru, our lineage of Lama Tsongkhapa and our Protector Dorje Shugden.... after all the goal is Dharma and Enlightenment!

[dsiluvu]

The main and only reason for them to offshoot is because of the ban. If the ban is removed, there is no reason at all for them to be separate anymore. Then, is there any reason for them to still be separate? If there is not, why would they still be separate? This is my thinking and my logical conclusion to the whole separation thing. Different DS Lamas have different approaches to this issue: Lama Gangchen chooses to benefit others in a different direction from the CTA: whatever places that the CTA has missed out or has no influence in, Lama Gangchen seemed to have grown and flourished there, including China, Italy, Bhutan and the UN peace council. I have not heard of Lama Gangchen talking anything about Dorje Shugden at all as it is not exactly necessary for him to do so to spread the Dharma. It is CTA's loss that Gangchen Rinpoche is unable to benefit them at all. He is Medicine Buddha on earth and his ability to heal is better than any doctor CTA can get.

on NKT, perhaps their current model suits their purpose and their needs best as without a doubt, Geshe Keslang would have already tailored it to suit the dispositions of the western students. The system he established in NKT is very similar to the one in Ganden monastery, where the head abbot retires and the next one takes over. GKG has retired already and NKT has a new spiritual head now. GKG is more or less empowering more and more westerners to partake the Dharma and to become real lineage holders, so i doubt he needs to ever return back to CTA ever as they are already rock solid on their own.

True that the world is our oyster... there are so many out there who does not even realise about this ban and they are the ones we should bring Dharma to and introduce them to a beneficial protector because it would be better for them to be pray to Dorje Shugden then some worldly god or nothing at all. This is what Gangchen Rinpoche is doing and there are so many who needs help... they don't care about the ban... it does not affect them... they just want help, their wishes fulfilled and peace. When they pray to Dorje Shugden, they will get their wish and with that comes more faith, more conviction and loyalty towards Dorje Shugden. And that way Dorje Shugden will bless their minds to transform. Yes it may not be the highest scope motivation but i suppose everyone needs to start some where.

We as Dorje Shugden practitioners, should nurture these new people and give them hope in their darkest of hours.... that is Dharma.

[dsiluvu]

on NKT, perhaps their current model suits their purpose and their needs best as without a doubt, Geshe Keslang would have already tailored it to suit the dispositions of the western students. The system he established in NKT is very similar to the one in Ganden monastery, where the head abbot retires and the next one takes over. GKG has retired already and NKT has a new spiritual head now. GKG is more or less empowering more and more westerners to partake the Dharma and to become real lineage holders, so i doubt he needs to ever return back to CTA ever as they are already rock solid on their own.

What GKG did by creating a new system for NKT is revolutionary and inspiring! Despite the ban when it first started and the amount of threats and pressure and difficulty he had to face, yet Geshela still managed to spread the Dharma... i believe that is how Dorje Shugden has helped Him and NKT

He has created a new tradition where he created his own Dharma teachers within the western pupils and to me this is continuing the lineage... Tsongkhapa's lineage is not just for Tibetans... and I believe more are doing so... where the lineage is passed on to the locals which I find beautiful and this is called growth/expansion. So there is no need to worry about language barriers and visa problems and on top of that protector issues haha.

Whether or not they are separated (so it may look and seem) but in actuality we're all from the same family tree as GKG teachers are the same lineage masters, hence Gelug and Je Tsongkhapa's essence of the teachings continues. The colours of the thread may be different but it is interwoven in to just 1 big design... Enlightenment eh.