Divination methods of Dorje Shugden

[Ratna Shugden]

The great protectoress, Palden Lhamo's dice divination is quite well-known. I heard that there are also divination methods by Dorje Shugden, but I could find any documents relating to this. Does anyone have any information on this? I seems good to be able to have the means to seek Dorje Shugden's advice, especially on difficult issues.

[thor]

The great protectoress, Palden Lhamo's dice divination is quite well-known. I heard that there are also divination methods by Dorje Shugden, but I could find any documents relating to this. Does anyone have any information on this? I seems good to be able to have the means to seek Dorje Shugden's advice, especially on difficult issues.

Do you wish for the documents in order to learn how to perform Dorje Shugden's dice divination? One has to do extensive retreats and have the blessings of the lama before being able to seek Dorje Shugden's clairvoyant advice thru divination.

I can imagine, in stores around the world, Dorje Shugden divination kits - just like how people can just pick up a set of tarot cards and 'foretell' the future. Scary.

[WisdomBeing]

Yes, i heard that it's not so simple to do divination. One must be a qualified person, specially trained, take certain vows etc. This is because when the diviner (is there another word?) requests for assistance from the higher Beings, he or she must know WHO they are propitiating. There are spirits who masquerade as enlightened Beings and if we are not qualified, we will not be able to tell the difference and this may cause more harm than good.

As they always say - do not try this at home!

[LosangKhyentse]

Dorje Shugden Divinations:


1.) There are two current text on divination in use and circulation. His Eminence Kyabje Dagom Dorje Chang composed one text and Dorje Shugden Himself took trance and composed the original one. They are both highly accurate on the hundreds of occasions divination was consulted to Dagom Rinpoche by my associates/friends/dharma students.

2.) When Dorje Shugden took trance of the previous Choyang Dulzin Kuten, he was in trance for over two hours. Dorje Shugden gave the direct lineage, oral transmission, and explanation of this text. In other words, he composed on the spot this sacred text. Amazing as Shugden gave transmission on his own text he composed on the spot. Start of a lineage.  It was compiled by the then secretary in audience with Dorje Shugden in his peaceful form as Dulzin. If I am not mistaken, the secretary is the current abbot of Shar Gaden, the Most Venerable Geshe Lobsang Pende-lak. I am referring to the Dorje Shugden composed text below.

3.) It's broken down into 6 basic sections with subsections and Intro's advice:

A. Intro advice

B. The six basic sections are for the 6 faces of the dice. Depending which side the dice falls, each side is broken down into approximately 10 subsections. Each Subsection gives details of results, to engage in a certain action being asked or to avoid or otherwise, pujas, remedial solutions, etc.

10 subsections that the questions are divided into:

Dharma Activity
visitors/friends
House & Place
Success
Legal Actions
Sickness
Life Span
Spirits
Medical Treatments
Travelling Wealth & Resource


4.) In order to engage in this profound practice of Divination relying on the infallible Dorje Shugden, it is highly recommended:

a. Recieve the empowerment of Tsongkapa (Je Tse Zin Ma), engage in formal retreat with minimum of 100,000 migtseymas. No fire puja.

b. Recieve the initiation of Yamantaka, solitary or 13-Deity is fine, engage in the retreat. Minimum 400,000 main mantra, and 40,000 other three mantras each. Seal with a sacred Fire Puja.

c. Recieve Sogtae (life entrustment) of Dorje Shugden, engage in a extended retreat at least 1,000,000 (one million minimum) main mantra and secondary mantry 100,000 is ok. Seal with a sacred Dorje Shugden Fire puja.

5.) Then upon finishing retreat, request one's lama permission to start the divinations and can get one's divination dice consecrated by one's lama.

Of course one's does not engage in such sacred retreats with the motivation JUST TO DO DIVINATIONS. That would be a 'waste'. One should do with the highest of motivations as in Lam Rim Prayers or King of Prayers. The side benefit would be the ability to divine the future for situations beyond logical thinking or a logical course of action.

6.) When one has finished the retreat, recieved the permission of one's lama, then everyday prior to divination, one is to recite Hung Rang Nyi Yidam, etc. 3x, offer serkym and with a good motivation one may recieve questions and proceed to divine to help others.

This is a short run down of the details, requirements and procedures behind the highly accurate divination method of the Enlightened Dorje Shugden.


TK

[Ratna Shugden]

Thank You TK you have 101% answered by questions! I hope that in every lifetime I can purely complete all the requirements as listed in the text by Dorje Shugden himself. As a Dorje Shugden practitioner, it is my wish that this tradition of Dorje Shugden's Divination will be preserved forever, even if it is only reserved for very high lamas.

I feel that great teachers of our present time who can do this divination, so make it know to the Shugdenpa circle, to bring this tradition back to prominence. The current situation looks like this practice is dying out, which isn't good.

Till then, whenever I have any problems which I can't solved by myself, I shall recite the Heart Jewel and Dorje Shugden's mantras sincerely and pray for His guidance.

[LosangKhyentse]

Thank You TK you have 101% answered by questions! I hope that in every lifetime I can purely complete all the requirements as listed in the text by Dorje Shugden himself. As a Dorje Shugden practitioner, it is my wish that this tradition of Dorje Shugden's Divination will be preserved forever, even if it is only reserved for very high lamas.

I feel that great teachers of our present time who can do this divination, so make it know to the Shugdenpa circle, to bring this tradition back to prominence. The current situation looks like this practice is dying out, which isn't good.

Till then, whenever I have any problems which I can't solved by myself, I shall recite the Heart Jewel and Dorje Shugden's mantras sincerely and pray for His guidance.

Dear RatnaShugden,

This practice is not for only high lamas. This is for anyone sincere and does the divinations free of the 8 worldly dharmas as best as you can. The accuracy will depend on your samaya, guru devotion, motivation and 'upkeep' of your Dorje Shugden commitments.

You can consult a qualified lama and recieve this practice if you wish to go all the way. You can recieve the lineage, do the retreats, and fire pujas in Shar Gaden. One retreat every six months?? The Abbot can confer on you the sacred initiations.
Let me please stress again, it is a side benefit of all the retreats. Tsongkapa, Yamantaka, Dorje Shugden retreats are to clear obstacles to realizing the real non-dualistic nature of the mind thereby propelling yourself to Liberation. Wisdom is so needed, what more better than Manjushri in Lama form-Tsongkapa, Manjushri in Yidam form-Yamantaka and Manjushri in Protector form-Dorje Shugden.

The Gelugs have a saying that we practice Lama Manjushri, Yidam Manjushri and Protector Manjushri. That is to all awaken the Manjushri within us lying dormant for aeons.

Good luck.


TK

[DharmaDefender]

Who on god's green earth has time for this?     It's hard to find time even to do a kangso.

Someone who is truly committed and willing to devote their lives to benefiting others with Dorje Shugden's practice? I imagine it would be someone who doesn't let laziness and the fear of 'giving up' their current lifestyle affect their resolve to do his practice.

[LosangKhyentse]

I'm not really sure what the point of talking about these uncommon practices and related qualifications publicly is exactly, it may not be appropriate.  It may attract people interested in setting up their own little mo business, etc.

Dear Trinley Kalsang,

I have done the whole process of retreats (Tsongkapa/Yamantaka/Shugden with fire pujas) over ten years back as I described above. And I did not do it for mo purposes. I made the time for it and it was one of the best times in my life. I took 3.5 full months out of my schedule and engage in each retreat systematically under the guidance of a Geshe who resides in Europe now. I finished it all in 3.5 months straight. I did three to four sessions a day and it was tough but I would do it again.

The point of talking about this is to show that there is a system of practices to follow when you wish to do mo to make sure it is accurate. Just like the lengthe and extent of practices would discourage you, it would discourage other people. Secondly, I wrote out the details because RatnaShugden on the post ask regarding mo, so I took the time to write it out and share with them upon their requests. I would hope it would be appreciated. And it was by RatnaShugden, and I am glad. I wrote out the procedure, but each procedure requires the study of the commentary and detailed methods to engage in each retreat, those are lengthy and not easy. Setting up a 'mo' shop is not easy at all.

There are many tantric texts/commentaries/meditations out in major bookstores also. It encourages many people to read through them without prior initiations as I have seen many times. So if beings with delusions wish to corrupt any practice, all the tools are there. Similar for sincere people, the tools are also there for there practice.

There are a few mo texts out already on sale in major bookstores around the world, example how to do mo with Manjushri, the text and it comes with the dice also. However, if people are not serious with the practices, mo will remain inaccurate.

Those who set up a 'mo shop', if after a while, people stop coming because their motivation not good,  the mo does not fall accurately and they cannot collect money or charge, their shops will close. We cannot protect the world from charlatans, we can just do the best we can.

TK

[LosangKhyentse]

Who on god's green earth has time for this?     It's hard to find time even to do a kangso.

On god's green earth, I found the time and I did the complete retreats with fire pujas over ten years back. I have a very busy schedule and I love doing the full length kangsols. I will make time and do the retreats over again because it is so important. I recieved many benefits from the retreats I can see within my mind. Dorje Shugden is important to me and retreats are a way to open the Dorje Shugden (Buddha) potential within me before it is too late and death takes over.

I know of many others who have also done the same. I enjoyed the retreats (although tough) because I know of their benefits and I make the time.

TK

[LosangKhyentse]

Who on god's green earth has time for this?     It's hard to find time even to do a kangso.

Someone who is truly committed and willing to devote their lives to benefiting others with Dorje Shugden's practice? I imagine it would be someone who doesn't let laziness and the fear of 'giving up' their current lifestyle affect their resolve to do his practice.

You are right!!

TK

[iloveds]

Who on god's green earth has time for this?     It's hard to find time even to do a kangso.

Some people are just soo stupid, why even say this? what are you saying about your lama? What are you saying about the Dharma, duhhhh~!

You can't make time for the buddhist practices which make your life better, happier? Your just a beginner and will always be if your still after soo many years finding it difficult to make time for Dharma.

What a waste man.

[Ratna Shugden]

Since I rely on Dorje Shugden as my main Dharma Protector, it is natural to me that should I ever need to do divination to help me make a difficult decision, I will want to consult Shugden as my first choice, instead of turning to other sources. When I want to make a decision, I will do my best to consider every possible factor and look at the issue from other angles.

Divination to me, is a nice finishing touch, especially if the answer is from Dorje Shugden Himself.

I believe the many requirements of this practice is also a test of sincerity; if you desire this practice strong enough, you will want to meet every requirement in the shortest possible time.

[DharmaDefender]

Since I rely on Dorje Shugden as my main Dharma Protector, it is natural to me that should I ever need to do divination to help me make a difficult decision, I will want to consult Shugden as my first choice, instead of turning to other sources. When I want to make a decision, I will do my best to consider every possible factor and look at the issue from other angles.

Divination to me, is a nice finishing touch, especially if the answer is from Dorje Shugden Himself.

I believe the many requirements of this practice is also a test of sincerity; if you desire this practice strong enough, you will want to meet every requirement in the shortest possible time.

RatnaShugden, surely you'd want to consult your guru first, after having exhausted all perspectives on the issue - after all, if your faith is rock solid, your guru's advice should be as good as a divination don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning your faith! Perhaps you're practising real devotion, and not wanting to bring secular matters to your guru - I don't know!

I can tell you have faith in the Protector though. I've been taught that a student's faith will help to give them a clearer divination result. My guru has said that if a student has great faith in the Protector, and has great faith in the lama doing the divination, and has a history of following divination results to the T, then the result will be clear. Otherwise, it will be shaky, a little vague etc - I guess it reflects the student's samaya with their guru and Protector.

[LosangKhyentse]

You can't make time for the buddhist practices which make your life better, happier? Your just a beginner and will always be if your still after soo many years finding it difficult to make time for Dharma.

Well, it's just that I cannot find which stage in the lam rim divination is.  I was always encouraged to practice lam rim.  I was always encouraged to practice like Milarepa, keeping things as simple as possible, especially giving the lack of time in a modern lifestyle.  Although I'm quite sure many great lamas do divinations that help beings, I'm not sure if Lama Tsongkhapa did divinations, so I'm a bit doubtful if it's a worthwhile pursuit for me.

You don't have to do divinations. You don't have to find it in the lam rim. If Trijang Rinpoche did divination and he also practiced Dorje Shugden, then why say divination doesn't fit into the Lam Rim so YOU don't 'accept' it and you accept Dorje Shugden. There's not one single mention of Dorje Shugden in the Lam Rim.

Many great lamas and geshes does divination. Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche wrote divination texts. You don't have to look further. Just because you like to be simple as possible, doesn't mean divinations doesn't fit into other methods to benefit others. Divinations does not make you Not Simple.  Lama Tsongkapa did not practice Dorje Shugden also, so why pursue Dorje Shugden. You don't have to pursue everything, but that does not mean it is not worth someone else's time.

TK

[iloveds]

I always thought that it was the Lama that would decide if a student was ready for any special practices such as divination, or to be a medium (oracle) for the Protector.

Is it the other way around, the student would make requests, and if so, what student wouldn't want all the special powers? ego both ways, scared to ask, and bold to ask.

How does it work present day around the world?

anyone know?