Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!

[beggar]

For sure it is important to have confirmation from other high Lamas. Also, the incarnation status of tulkus are often and almost always confirmed by the protectors in trance, through oracles. So I believe this would probably also be sought as further confirmation, and would have to match the divinations / visions / dreams and confirmation of the high Lamas.

As to the specific incarnations and emanations of Dorje Shugden - do remember that enlightened beings are also able to manifest simultaneous incarnations and emanations. It is not uncommon for tulkus to manifest in three or several forms, for example - the body incarnation, speech incarnation and mind incarnation.

It is openly known that the Dalai Lama's own brother AND Samdhong Rinpoche are recognised as Shugden emanations. Surprise? (or not, perhaps!)

[Ensapa]

For sure it is important to have confirmation from other high Lamas. Also, the incarnation status of tulkus are often and almost always confirmed by the protectors in trance, through oracles. So I believe this would probably also be sought as further confirmation, and would have to match the divinations / visions / dreams and confirmation of the high Lamas.

As to the specific incarnations and emanations of Dorje Shugden - do remember that enlightened beings are also able to manifest simultaneous incarnations and emanations. It is not uncommon for tulkus to manifest in three or several forms, for example - the body incarnation, speech incarnation and mind incarnation.

It is openly known that the Dalai Lama's own brother AND Samdhong Rinpoche are recognised as Shugden emanations. Surprise? (or not, perhaps!)

not to mention Guru Dewa Rinpoche.

Logically, if HHDL were really against Shugden that much wouldnt he had done something to those two first? Like take away their status and exile them somewhere? If he did not and even installed one as the prime minister, what does that tell us? So it is very very odd that this is happening.  It is not consistent at all with his "ban". maybe he is trying to show the tibetans that blind faith and disloyalty is the reasons why they can never get their independence....

[thor]

For sure it is important to have confirmation from other high Lamas. Also, the incarnation status of tulkus are often and almost always confirmed by the protectors in trance, through oracles. So I believe this would probably also be sought as further confirmation, and would have to match the divinations / visions / dreams and confirmation of the high Lamas.

Beggar, your post got me thinking. Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen, if recognised and enthroned would be one of the most powerful forces in the Tibetan Buddhist world, and THE most powerful in the Shugden movement. The CTA would be trembling in their beds just considering this possibility. Therefore, should Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen ever decide to reveal himself, who would recognised him? Who would enthrone him?

Considering the high Shugden lamas alive today, the most likely to dare recognise Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen would perhaps be Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche or Gangchen Rinpoche or Pabongka Rinpoche. Yongyal Rinpoche or Gonsar Rinpoche are possibilities too. Unfortunately, most of the eminent Shugden lamas are too young at present - think Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Zemey Rinpoche or Rabten Rinpoche. Or they are in hiding (such as Lama Zopa, Gehlek Rinpoche or Khejok Rinpoche) and would not reveal themselves by doing such a thing. Or would they, knowing that such a recognition would change the tide of Tibetan Buddhism and allow them to be true to their Gurus once again?

Another thought - imagine if the Dalai Lama were to recognised Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen! The Dalai Lama obvious has the clairvoyance to know, even now, whether it were true that Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen was alive. The Dalai Lama would definitely be able to recognised him. I mean, he has recognised so many other reincarnations already. But what a slap in the face that would be, not to mentioned being detrimental to the Anti Shugden movement if the Dalai Lama himself were to announce that Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen has reincarnated. How can a demon or evil spirit reincarnate as a human? Much less as a high incarnation?

I'm sure since this announcement was made, the supporters of Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen, those who know that he is alive, would already be considering these facts. Perhaps they are even planning to request the oracle of Shugden or Setrab or other deities to recognise the new incarnation. Previous life recognising a future life? Surreal yet entirely possible.

[beggar]

Beggar, your post got me thinking. Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen, if recognised and enthroned would be one of the most powerful forces in the Tibetan Buddhist world, and THE most powerful in the Shugden movement. The CTA would be trembling in their beds just considering this possibility. Therefore, should Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen ever decide to reveal himself, who would recognised him? Who would enthrone him?

....

I'm sure since this announcement was made, the supporters of Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen, those who know that he is alive, would already be considering these facts. Perhaps they are even planning to request the oracle of Shugden or Setrab or other deities to recognise the new incarnation. Previous life recognising a future life? Surreal yet entirely possible.

Yes, this crossed my mind too. It could well be Setrab during trance to recognise this incarnation. This is a being who is still consulted regularly within the monasteries, and certainly not in hiding!

Or... Nechung? That would certainly blow everyone's mind away!

[Ensapa]

Actually, I believe he is already recognized and kept far, far away from the paws of CTA. I cannot give more hints beyond that, so that I do not get anyone into trouble and limit their Dharma activities (and incur heavy bad karma on myself). The rest of them will be made obvious if you check certain prayers given to certain lamas by other high lamas and activities of certain lamas.

You might never know, but it could be that Kyabje Drakpa Gyaltsen might already be posting in this forum, educating and explaining to our members here.

Or perhaps I am just too in awe with this great Mahasiddha that I keep feeling his presence...

[yontenjamyang]

I believe the time is not right yet. We need all to create the cause for him to reveal himself. I am sure there is a bigger plan as well. But for us, we need to do our best to promote Him. Do our practice, if we have a Guru, our Guru Devotion must be strong..keep our samaya strong and pure. Do practice, Dharma work and transform ourselves. Then when the condition is right, he will reveal himself. Otherwise, even after he reveal himself, if we have not been practicing well, we will not be able to meet him.

[Losang_Tenpa]

Just wondering if anyone on this thread has considered what type of reaction the NKT and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso may have about the idea of enthroning someone as Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen. I do not think GKG endorses or promotes any tulku, and as far as I know he does not seem to think that the tulku system is integral to the fluorishing of the Dharma in the West.

Any thoughts? I am very curious.....

[Losang_Tenpa]

edit: flourishing


(this is the reason why I keep asking to be allowed to edit my posts like everyone else.) hahahhaha...

[pgdharma]

I do agree with yongtenjamyang. Our samaya and faith must be strong, pure and stable. Spiritual growth is from within us.  We have to apply what we learn in our daily lives and transform our mind. We must put in all the efforts to support the lifting of the ban and to promote Dorje Shugden in all aspects. Only then when the time and condition is right, Dorje Shugden will reveal himself. The bottom-line is we have to create the cause to meet him.

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Losang Tenpa

i think NKT would ignore any recognition of an incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen because of their rejection of the Tulku system. This is one of the reasons why i was not comfortable joining NKT even though some of the people i met were very lovely people. I personally believe in tulkus - all these high lamas cannot be fake and i do feel that they are living proof that attainments exist and that all of us are capable of achieving the same qualities. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso had decided that tulkus are not relevant to the western dharma seekers, which I'm sure he instituted for the best reasons, but it doesn't sit well with me. It would be interesting to see their reaction when this incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen is revealed.

[shugdenprotect]

Having the incarnation of Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen amongst us is very wonderful and exciting information.

In reading the recent comments, I agree with yontenjamyang that the time is not yet right for this high incarnation to expose Himself because of OUR state. We may not be completely aware of the magnitude and significance of this situation. Consequently, we may not be prepared to act accordingly and protect the incarnation of TDG, which may jeopardize the certainty of having Dharma and Dorje Shugden practice flourish once more. If the followers of the 5th Dalai Lama can murder TDG centuries ago, what makes this not possible again today?

So, perhaps for now, what we need to do is practice sincerely and get ourselves equipped and ready for the disclosure of TDG’s incarnation. Create the cause that we will be able to uphold the practice when the time is right.

[vajralight]

Just wondering if anyone on this thread has considered what type of reaction the NKT and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso may have about the idea of enthroning someone as Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen. I do not think GKG endorses or promotes any tulku, and as far as I know he does not seem to think that the tulku system is integral to the fluorishing of the Dharma in the West.

Any thoughts? I am very curious.....

Hi Tenpa,

I think the NKT will not accept the tulku as a tulku, since it is felt this system is unreliable, (doesn't mean that there are no legitimate tulkus ) but it could just accept the person as a vajra brother and fellow shugdenpa. NKT will never follow Trijang Choktrul, or any other "recognised " tulku, since the NKT chooses its own spiritual director and has a view on spreading/teaching/practising Kadam buddhism that is different from Tibetan traditions.

(No emphasis on tibetan language or culture, less emphasis on rituals, all texts and prayers done in the language of the country where the Centre resides, General spiritual director, Deputy spiritual director and National spiritual directors are chosen (voted) from practitioners on the merit of their qualities not by birth as tulku, clear separation from Dalai Lama...)

Vajra

[hope rainbow]

Over 13,000 views on this topic only, we just need to compare to how many views other topics get to understand the impact this news will have when it spreads further than  this forum, far and wide.

My head is spinning a little now...

[Ensapa]

Just wondering if anyone on this thread has considered what type of reaction the NKT and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso may have about the idea of enthroning someone as Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen. I do not think GKG endorses or promotes any tulku, and as far as I know he does not seem to think that the tulku system is integral to the fluorishing of the Dharma in the West.

Any thoughts? I am very curious.....

Well, for starters, there isnt a tradition of recognizing tulkus in the New Kadampa tradition due to various reasons, which includes that Geshe Keslang Gyatso felt that it was not necessary to establish a tulku system in his tradition where many of his followers are from the west. This is the reason why Geshe Keslang Gyatso did not go to his Guru, Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche even though he is the unmistaken incarnation of his Guru so that his students would not be confused with the Tulku system as he wants them to stick to the basics of the Buddhist teachings.

One thing for sure is that if Kyabje Dragpa Gyaltsen does manifest, it would re-invent Gelugpa as we know it as he has done so many times before in his previous incarnations. Perhaps his incarnation is already doing very great work somewhere in the world, but under a different name. I cant wait to see Kyabje Dragpa Gyaltsen's name be announced once more in the world of Tibetan Buddhism.

[Rinchen]

It is really great that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen is just among us now, waiting for a correct time to help the rest of this world get out of samsara. I believe all these are only announced to show us that the ban is really coming down soon.
Hence, with this it just proved that what others say that Dorje Shugden being an evil spirit is wrong and that there might be a bigger issue going on to help spread Dharma further and to a bigger community. Just that some people are misinterpreting and twisting all the positive signs to make them look bad.

And if, Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen is really bad, then the reincarnations of him would not be even recognized by all these high lamas and oracles.