Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!

[LosangKhyentse]

I have spoken with many monks here at Shar Gaden this week about this topic and I must say that almost all of the monks do seem genuinely intrigued. Many are like me in feeling that if the incarnation was recognized by one of the authorized Dorje Shugden oracles, or by a Lama such as Trijang Rinpoche or Zong Rinpoche years back, that is reason enough to be open to this. After all, in the begining none of us had any 'proof' of the existence of Protectors and such, so we had to establish the Lama as a reliable source first.

Maybe this a simplistic approach, but it suits me and my practice just fine.

So should we conclude from this that you and the monks of Shar Ganden don't really  believe in the tulku either ?

I used the word intrigued to mean interested in learning more. Most of the monks I have talked with seem very open to the news.

Dear Tenzin Sungrab,

Definitely the monks would be intrigued. The very top senior monks would know who it is for sure, but wouldn't reveal for safety reasons. The persons who recognized this incarnation are top lamas and you can be sure the Dorje Shugden oracle has approved. It's just not time to reveal yet I got wind.

Dorje Shugden monasteries will accept with open arms for sure. With the seal of recognition from reknowned dorje shugden lineage lamas and oracle combined, it will be a great incarnation to spread the lineage of lama tsongkapa. As you said, and I agree, the existence of Dorje Shugden that we so believe in came from the recognition of the lamas also. Your 'simplistic' approach is valid and many of our lineages/practices/tantras sprung from this seemingly simplistic approach. Thanks for confirming what I know of the monks interest in this.

TK

[honeydakini]

I have spoken with many monks here at Shar Gaden this week about this topic and I must say that almost all of the monks do seem genuinely intrigued. Many are like me in feeling that if the incarnation was recognized by one of the authorized Dorje Shugden oracles, or by a Lama such as Trijang Rinpoche or Zong Rinpoche years back, that is reason enough to be open to this. After all, in the begining none of us had any 'proof' of the existence of Protectors and such, so we had to establish the Lama as a reliable source first.

Maybe this a simplistic approach, but it suits me and my practice just fine.

TS thank you for sharing this happy and heart-warming news. Great to hear that this news has brought some hope (intrigue!) into the Sangha's heart. As I've been saying throughout the week, some people may doubt this news but there are also others who may find something positive in it. I especially like what you have said about them having faith in the DS Lamas and oracles "to be open to this" and not to discredit it completely as yet. It shows their great faith in the Lamas and the beautiful ability to choose to see the positive potential of a situation.

Thank you very much for this sharing, truly. It warms my heart so much to hear how this news is creating ripples in a good way

[WisdomBeing]

It's interesting that monks are more open to the possibility of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's incarnation than lay people. Perhaps the monks who have a centuries old tradition of identifying tulkus via oracles and high lamas know something laypeople don't?

Tenzin Sungrab, thank you for sharing the insider's view from Shar Gaden... i rejoice in the monks' interest in this issue and that gives me comfort in my instinctive optimism re this.

Wishing you and all at Shar Gaden well!

[crazycloud]

It's interesting that monks are more open to the possibility of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's incarnation than lay people. Perhaps the monks who have a centuries old tradition of identifying tulkus via oracles and high lamas know something laypeople don't?

Hi Kate

In the spirit of discussion, could you please acknowledge that you understand that everyone here is open to this possibility? It has been said over and over that whether or not there is such a tulku is not the point, but you seem to keep missing it. I'm trying to determine if you are doing this on purpose.

thanks.

[godi]

Next week the Summer Festival is starting  I am counting the days .....

We will meet many Tulkus  , Buddhas  , Bodhisattvas  , Protectors  , nice people  , good food, nice English weather, nice camping ground in a pure land.

If you want to meet all these nice people, come to the Summer Festival and relax

[WisdomBeing]

Next week the Summer Festival is starting  I am counting the days .....

We will meet many Tulkus  , Buddhas  , Bodhisattvas  , Protectors  , nice people  , good food, nice English weather, nice camping ground.

If you want to meet all these nice people, come to the Summer Festival 

where's this summer festival, Godi?

[godi]

just a few clicks away.
http://kadampafestivals.org/summer/

In former times, people had to undertake very dangerous travels to meet dharma. Nowadays we do some clicks on our netbooks.
We are very fortunate, we are like in pure land. Eveywhere is dharma!!

[godi]

Does the Tulku have the ability to read and understand scriptures in Tibetan?

Maybe

[godi]

I have to beg your pardon    by misleading you with my statement.

It is said that Buddhas and Bodhisattvas appear for sure at places where dharma talks are given, like Buddha Manjushri,Buddha Avalokiteshvara, Buddha Vajrapani did when Buddha Shakyamuni gave teachinigs. For me, the same is happening during the summer festival  . If Buddhas and Bodhisattvas go there to show a good example then I am saying that also Tulkus are going there. Actually, I do not know anything about Tulku system, their education and which languages they speak. I am sorry  . The only thing i know is that the summer festival will be great  . Nice people  , great teachers  , meditations, retreat, teachings, commentaries, Pujas and soooo many people showing good example  . It is like holiday in a pure land. See you there?

[Lone Hermit]

Now, the unmistaken incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen has returned among us.

He has been incarnating continuously over the past few hundred years, quietly preserving and propagating the lineage of Lama Tsongkhapa and his most significant work, the Lamrim Chenmo.

Recognised by oracles and high lamas a few decades ago, the current incarnation continues to live quietly among us, awaiting the most beneficial time to emerge, to openly continue this legacy of incredible deeds.

His time is coming soon.

His return will cause an explosion at the heart of the Tibetan Buddhist world, righting a great ‘wrong’ that was done hundreds of years ago.

His return marks the culmination of an orchestrated sequence of events which began over 600 years ago during the time of Dulzin.

His return heralds a new age of Buddhist renaissance, where Dorje Shugden will rise to the fore, unveiling his true nature as the greatest Dharma Protector for our time.

The final episode in this elaborate epic reveals how the highest Lamas have each played their part to propel Lama Tsongkhapa’s lineage to its highest peak.

Ridiculous!

People reasonably ask for some evidence that this whole thing isn't a hoax perpetrated on the members of this forum and the best you can do is endlessly repeat yourself?

Offer some proof and stop jerking us around.

[Vajraprotector]

Karma, or more specifically, positive or negative karmic forces (bsod-nams or sdig-pa) and karmic tendencies (sa-bon), whether individual or collective, ripen  into various types of results. One of these results is a dominating result (bdag-po’i ‘bras-bu). A dominating result is our experiencing of the type of environment or society in which we are born or enter, and the way it treats us, or objects such as our possessions, and what happens to them.

In the case of the dominating result of the collective karma – the technical term is actually “shared karma” (thun-mong-gi las) – of a group of limited beings, this refers mainly to their shared experiencing of environmental or societal situations or occurrences when this group experiences them. However, we can also say that the dominating result of collective karma also refers to the environmental or societal situations or occurrences that provide the circumstances for this group to experience them.

By the way, Godi, the empowerment (deities) for summer festival are different every year? Wow, this must be one of the biggest gathering of the NKT Sangha huh?

[Zhalmed Pawo]

His return heralds a new age of Buddhist renaissance, where Dorje Shugden will rise to the fore, unveiling his true nature as the greatest Dharma Protector for our time.

The final episode in this elaborate epic reveals how the highest Lamas have each played their part to propel Lama Tsongkhapa’s lineage to its highest peak.

OK, this is concerning.  If the story is going to be all of these problems people have been suffering due to this problem was all part of some divine plan for the glorification of this person, that is not going to be acceptable.

Why is a "divine plan" not acceptable? Is it because of its judeo-christian background that BUDDHISTS find it not of their 'taste'?

Sorry to say this, but Shakyamuni's enlightenment is a divine plan, Maitreya coming to the rescue after Shakyamuni is a divine plan, Dorje Shugden becoing a protector is a divine plan. Many Bodhisattva have made their vows to come back again and again, that's the "divine plan".

Well, there are "divine plans" and then there are "divine plans".

The kind of "divine plan" that is harmonious with Dharma, and can therefore be accepted by Buddhists, is just like the arising of Buddhas in the world, that you mentioned. This is because in these cases, they arise through practicing the Bodhisattvas ethical path for many aeons. The cause is goodness and ethical behaviour, and the result is ethical goodness. There is harmony between the cause and effect, the method and the attainment.

Then there is the other kind of "divine plan", that is more in harmony with the theistic traditions. In these traditions it is typically seen, that a God could order a mass murder or a genocide, as found in Old Testament for instance. Somehow these atrocities are nevertheless seen as good, because they are "part of the divine plan". In these kind of "plans", unethical behaviour causing suffering to others mysteriously produces good results. Mysterious, are the ways of God. These kind of "divine plans" a Buddhist cannot accept.

[harrynephew]

I have spoken with many monks here at Shar Gaden this week about this topic and I must say that almost all of the monks do seem genuinely intrigued. Many are like me in feeling that if the incarnation was recognized by one of the authorized Dorje Shugden oracles, or by a Lama such as Trijang Rinpoche or Zong Rinpoche years back, that is reason enough to be open to this. After all, in the begining none of us had any 'proof' of the existence of Protectors and such, so we had to establish the Lama as a reliable source first.

Maybe this a simplistic approach, but it suits me and my practice just fine.

So should we conclude from this that you and the monks of Shar Ganden don't really  believe in the tulku either ?

I used the word intrigued to mean interested in learning more. Most of the monks I have talked with seem very open to the news.

Dear Tenzin Sungrab,

Definitely the monks would be intrigued. The very top senior monks would know who it is for sure, but wouldn't reveal for safety reasons. The persons who recognized this incarnation are top lamas and you can be sure the Dorje Shugden oracle has approved. It's just not time to reveal yet I got wind.

Dorje Shugden monasteries will accept with open arms for sure. With the seal of recognition from reknowned dorje shugden lineage lamas and oracle combined, it will be a great incarnation to spread the lineage of lama tsongkapa. As you said, and I agree, the existence of Dorje Shugden that we so believe in came from the recognition of the lamas also. Your 'simplistic' approach is valid and many of our lineages/practices/tantras sprung from this seemingly simplistic approach. Thanks for confirming what I know of the monks interest in this.

TK

Hi TS,

I'm happy to know that the monks of holy Shar Gaden are intrigued with this announcement. I think we all as lay people (well, as far as I know many of us should be lay people here ) and the other lay people in general should be happy and rejoice for the return of such a high incarnate Lama. Furthermore it is the incarnation of the Lama Line of our holy Protector.

Having read all the posts by everyone, this announcement having worked up many people whether pro or anti DS or not, I think it is a good wake up call.

Are we into Dorje Shugden for political reasons? Or are we here solely for the preservation of the Holy Dharma and for our own personal practice? This is an essential question we have to really ask ourselves every time we post here.

I take this forum/website as a practice and read up to gain knowledge from senior and well-read people like TK and Kate. I feel their sincerity through their posts and do not take sides. The good thing about their postings is that what they write make people think and not jump to conclusions.

We ourselves are not definitive High Lamas, Buddhas, Bodhisattvas etc. Hence, we should not judge. Give yourself an open mind to think and digest things. Isn't the middle path we're seeking to achieve Enlightenment?

I pray I may be able to meet this incarnation and be part of his entourage to manifest his enlightened visionary activities.

Thanks

H1N1

[kurava]

Hi TS,
Thanks for the link. Good to see all the happy faces in spite of the adverse situation they are in. I rejoice with the good works done by the sangha at the monastery.

We all are intrigued by this new information, you're not the only ones. We are happy and intrigued at the same time ! I'm intrigued with an earnest prayer that may this be true....

I will definitely keep a close watch on this site for further news and confirmation.

[honeydakini]

Next week the Summer Festival is starting  I am counting the days .....

We will meet many Tulkus  , Buddhas  , Bodhisattvas  , Protectors  , nice people  , good food, nice English weather, nice camping ground.

If you want to meet all these nice people, come to the Summer Festival 

where's this summer festival, Godi?

This is great news and I'm very happy to hear Gosh, a year rolls around fast doesn't it- time for another summer festival. I have never personally had the chance to visit the festival. The last time i went up to the centre was just before the festival last year and i heard that they were expecting 5000 people that summer! Does anyone know what the plans are for this summer? Is Geshela giving any DS initiation or teachings? It'd be nice to hear of the news