Thurman speaks, Canada replies!

[LosangKhyentse]

Thurman Speaks, Thomas Canada comments. Wow. Must read!!



http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/robert_thurman/2010/07/all_religions_not_same_to_you.html


TK

[LosangKhyentse]

"Why was Bob Thurman denied the Empowerment of Dorje Shugden by the Original Founder of the Tibet House,H.H. Kyabje Domo Geshe Rinpoche? Why does Bob now Persecute the Dorje Shugden Devoted with H.H.D.L. ?" washington post

Domo Geshe has clairvoyance for sure as many have reputed. He has already mastered shamatha.

Tk

[thaimonk]

Washington Post
23 on a free ride...

11 Questions for the Dalai Lama & Robert Thurman

1.Why do you deny that you are enforcing the ban on Dorje Shugden when there are videos of your speeches enforcing this ban?
2.If you are truly an advocate for human rights, why do you issue identity cards which make it extremely difficult for Shugden practitioners to get food, water, shelter, medical attention and travel visas?
3.Why do your followers view you as the Buddha of Compassion when you engage in such harmful actions toward your own people?
4.If you are truly an advocate for nonviolence, why don’t you ask your followers not to engage in violent actions toward Shugden practitioners?
5.Why do you teach your disciples that the heart practice of a Buddhist is reliance on the Spiritual Guide while you are having the thrones and images of your own Spiritual Guide removed from monasteries?
6.Why do you lie about Dorje Shugden, saying that he is a evil spirit harming the cause for Tibetan Independence when you have said that you are no longer working toward Tibetan Independence?
7.Why have you expelled over 900 monks from their monasteries for practicing what their lineage gurus have been teaching them in their monasteries for the last 350 years?
8.Why do you claim that you are following the example of the 5th Dalai Lama, when it was the 5th Dalai Lama who made the first statue of Dorje Shugden that can still be seen?
9.Why don’t you stop lying?
10.Why don’t you give religious freedom to Shugden practitioners?
11.Why are you afraid to Debate Us On a Public Forum?
(Source: http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2008/08/10-questions-for-dalai-lama.html)

Great questions. But you know what, Thurman is not going to answer straight. He's just going to twist it around. For a so called scholar of Tibetan Buddhism, he really doesn't know the whole story I gather.

[Ensapa]

Oh I love what Thomas Canada has posted to Bob Thurman. They are wonderful!! And I also like the fact that Robert Thurman did not reply to any of them and what is even odder are comments down below that praise thurman, ignoring completely Canada's comments. To me, it does seem that either Thurman had rallied one or two of his friends to comment, or that the  few commenters there just wanted to complement Thurman's writing (um, if i were them, id really read the comments first before putting my comments there, but there are a lot of interesting people in the world, so i'd rather not want to figure out what are they really up to). But those comments will make people think what is really going on with bob thurman and why is he supporting a cause that oppresses another group of people. The fact that bob refuses to answer, or at least acknowledge shows that he does not know enough or is unable to answer all the points given. Somehow it is amusing to see such a scholar being defeated by someone on the internet.

As a scholar, thurman should really be more neutral in his stance, instead of going all the way to the Dalai Lama's camp and then passing off lies and distorted truths as facts in his material. I wonder what kind of negative karma will people like that accumulate as each person misled by them into a pit of wrong views would have their negative karma attributed to thurman. I wonder if we can prove that Thurman has been distorting Tibetan history to the deans of the universities, will his doctorate be stripped? Will he be dismissed and ignored and thrown into a pile and declared a fraud and fake? hmmm.

[shugdenpromoter]

As a scholar, thurman should really be more neutral in his stance, instead of going all the way to the Dalai Lama's camp and then passing off lies and distorted truths as facts in his material.

Dear Ensapa,

Even as CTA which is the Central Tibetan Administration, they are NOT NEUTRAL in their stance. So I do not expect anything from Thurman himself.

Their constitution which is on their website states the below :-

Charter of the Tibetans in Exile

The Charter of the Tibetans in Exile is the supreme law governing the functions of the CTA. It was drafted by the Constitution Redrafting Committee and referred to the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile for approval. The parliament, in turn, adopted the Charter on 14 June 1991.

Based on the spirit of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Charter guarantees to all Tibetans equality before the law and enjoyment of rights and freedom without discrimination on the basis of sex, religion, race, language and social origin. It provides for a clear separation of power among the three organs of the administration: judiciary, legislature and executive.

Source : http://tibet.net/about-cta/constitution/




From the above, anyone who reads the above will think that this "government" should not have any discrimination on religion. But they are totally against Shugden which by the way, without Shugden, there will not be HH today.

After reading the article " Robert Thurman: American Monk or Tibetan Puppet?" on Shugden website (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/robert-thurman-american-monk-or-tibetan-puppet/)  Thurman is the same with CTA.... NO BACKBONE. I wonder without HH, what can he achieve just like CTA.

[Ensapa]

Dear Ensapa,

Even as CTA which is the Central Tibetan Administration, they are NOT NEUTRAL in their stance. So I do not expect anything from Thurman himself.

Their constitution which is on their website states the below :-

Charter of the Tibetans in Exile

The Charter of the Tibetans in Exile is the supreme law governing the functions of the CTA. It was drafted by the Constitution Redrafting Committee and referred to the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile for approval. The parliament, in turn, adopted the Charter on 14 June 1991.

Based on the spirit of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Charter guarantees to all Tibetans equality before the law and enjoyment of rights and freedom without discrimination on the basis of sex, religion, race, language and social origin. It provides for a clear separation of power among the three organs of the administration: judiciary, legislature and executive.

Source : http://tibet.net/about-cta/constitution/




From the above, anyone who reads the above will think that this "government" should not have any discrimination on religion. But they are totally against Shugden which by the way, without Shugden, there will not be HH today.

After reading the article " Robert Thurman: American Monk or Tibetan Puppet?" on Shugden website (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/robert-thurman-american-monk-or-tibetan-puppet/)  Thurman is the same with CTA.... NO BACKBONE. I wonder without HH, what can he achieve just like CTA.

You're right. CTA has never been neutral and they have always been one sided in their decisions and policies, or they draft a nice policy for paperwork purposes and to impress the UN and deceive the rest of the world, but they will not follow it.  CTA knows for sure that the rest of the world does not have unimpeded access to Dharamsala as well as Tibetan history and important texts, so they exploit this blind spot and use it to disseminate lies and and made up stories. It is not the Dorje Shugden issue alone that is affected, but even the previous Dalai Lama's biographies are affected as well. Glenn Mullin states that the few Dalai Lamas who died young could really have been poisoned to death or assassinated but in official history, CTA says that they decided to pass away young. Also there is no accountability of this, and CTA is unable to explain why did they ban the reincarnations of several high Lamas, some not even Gelug such as the Sharmapa. CTA relies on the ignorance of the non Tibetans and people who does not investigate to grow, but it will not be this way for long as over time, people will find out.

This habit of them passing lies as truth must stop, for it is only a matter of time before people find out about their lies and they will be hated by the international community and all of their supporters now will be lost when that happens. China does not even need to do anything at all. But, for bob thurman to become something like that is sad indeed as he is the embarrassment to scholars of all creeds and religions. Even Bible Study scholars can accept and digest facts found in the bible without being biased, so they are far better than bob thurman despite all that he has studied in Buddhism. He gave up his title as a Buddhist scholar for the crown of a propaganda writer the moment he decided to go against Dorje Shugden and the historical evidence behind it.

[Ensapa]

Washington Post
23 on a free ride...

11 Questions for the Dalai Lama & Robert Thurman

1.Why do you deny that you are enforcing the ban on Dorje Shugden when there are videos of your speeches enforcing this ban?
2.If you are truly an advocate for human rights, why do you issue identity cards which make it extremely difficult for Shugden practitioners to get food, water, shelter, medical attention and travel visas?
3.Why do your followers view you as the Buddha of Compassion when you engage in such harmful actions toward your own people?
4.If you are truly an advocate for nonviolence, why don’t you ask your followers not to engage in violent actions toward Shugden practitioners?
5.Why do you teach your disciples that the heart practice of a Buddhist is reliance on the Spiritual Guide while you are having the thrones and images of your own Spiritual Guide removed from monasteries?
6.Why do you lie about Dorje Shugden, saying that he is a evil spirit harming the cause for Tibetan Independence when you have said that you are no longer working toward Tibetan Independence?
7.Why have you expelled over 900 monks from their monasteries for practicing what their lineage gurus have been teaching them in their monasteries for the last 350 years?
8.Why do you claim that you are following the example of the 5th Dalai Lama, when it was the 5th Dalai Lama who made the first statue of Dorje Shugden that can still be seen?
9.Why don’t you stop lying?
10.Why don’t you give religious freedom to Shugden practitioners?
11.Why are you afraid to Debate Us On a Public Forum?
(Source: http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2008/08/10-questions-for-dalai-lama.html)

Great questions. But you know what, Thurman is not going to answer straight. He's just going to twist it around. For a so called scholar of Tibetan Buddhism, he really doesn't know the whole story I gather.

What's even funnier and worse is to see that Thurman has chose to ignore all of the questions and instead opting to be silent. Very unusual for a so called scholar like Thurman to keep quiet about matters and questions directed to him like this. What is even more sad is how bob thurman would construct lies and dubious information and pass them on as facts. It is sad to see how a scholar would stoop down to this level in order to be in the Dalai Lama's favor, by using lies and misinformation to manipulate people. I wonder what will happen to him when the ban is lifted? will he still be considered a scholar or will his reputation be pulverized?

[Big Uncle]

Thurman's response reflect perhaps, his personal vendetta against the practice which has been denied to him. I am not surprise by this because it leaves me to think why would Domo Geshe Rinpoche who is compassion incarnate would deny him the practice? Perhaps, he sees in him instability and that he would later turn against Dorje Shugden and thereby break his samaya in favor of the Dalai Lama's ban on Dorje Shugden.

What's funny is that Thurman being a professor of Buddhism does not go along the lines of historical or theological lines. He often focus on the making snide remarks like calling Shugden practitioners, the Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism. This is of course uncalled for and it has evoked an image of extremism where it is not necessary.

[WisdomBeing]

Thurman's response reflect perhaps, his personal vendetta against the practice which has been denied to him. I am not surprise by this because it leaves me to think why would Domo Geshe Rinpoche who is compassion incarnate would deny him the practice? Perhaps, he sees in him instability and that he would later turn against Dorje Shugden and thereby break his samaya in favor of the Dalai Lama's ban on Dorje Shugden.

What's funny is that Thurman being a professor of Buddhism does not go along the lines of historical or theological lines. He often focus on the making snide remarks like calling Shugden practitioners, the Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism. This is of course uncalled for and it has evoked an image of extremism where it is not necessary.

As a profesor of Buddhism, Robert Thurman establishes himself as an authority. As a close associate of HH Dalai Lama, this authority is given more weight. However, since he is a professor of Buddhism, and thus an academician who puts stock in research and study, surely he would have questioned the actual basis upon which HH the Dalai Lama has banned the Dorje Shugden practice? Surely he would have asked - what is the evidence? Instead, he acts like an uneducated petulant child and resorts to name-calling. Robert Thurman claims to be a Buddhist yet his actions do not reflect that. Unfortunately, because of his 'credentials', people who do not know any better would believe him and even quote him.

Soon though, when the Dorje Shugden ban is lifted or fades away, I would be very curious to see how Robert Thurman would eat his words! Humble pie will be his karma!

[Ensapa]

As a profesor of Buddhism, Robert Thurman establishes himself as an authority. As a close associate of HH Dalai Lama, this authority is given more weight. However, since he is a professor of Buddhism, and thus an academician who puts stock in research and study, surely he would have questioned the actual basis upon which HH the Dalai Lama has banned the Dorje Shugden practice? Surely he would have asked - what is the evidence? Instead, he acts like an uneducated petulant child and resorts to name-calling. Robert Thurman claims to be a Buddhist yet his actions do not reflect that. Unfortunately, because of his 'credentials', people who do not know any better would believe him and even quote him.

Soon though, when the Dorje Shugden ban is lifted or fades away, I would be very curious to see how Robert Thurman would eat his words! Humble pie will be his karma!

Yes it is indeed a shame for thurman to act in this way, to attack Dorje Shugden without proper facts and without concrete evidence. You would expect much better from a renowned scholar of Buddhism, but unfortunately he has chosen the wrong thing to do. It would have been much better for him to just shut up about Dorje Shugden rather than making such comments against Dorje Shugden and making nasty remarks against their practitioners. I cant wait to see what will happen to thurman after the ban is lifted.

[vajrastorm]

Thurman ,Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and staunch supporter of HH Dalai Lama, disagrees with Steve Prothero for saying that the views of the Dalai Lama,(Armstrong) and Huston) that all religions "are different paths to the same God" are untrue. Instead, Thurman goes on to clarify that Steve is mistaken about HH Dalai Lama's view. He says that HH Dalai Lama says there are differences between religions and people must respect these differences. However, Thurman goes on to say that HH Dalai Lama believes that all religious followers and non-religious people should have a common platform of belief in kindness and compassion. He reiterates the popular words of HH Dalai Lama: "My religion is kindness".

What I fail to understand is why Thurman cannot see inconsistencies in what the Dalai Lama says and what He does. The Dalai Lama always preaches kindness and compassion. But the CTA's actions and HH Dalai Lama's actions against Dorje Shugden practitioners (who do no harm to others, but are merely expressing their Guru Devotion in their practice of Shugden)are inconsistent with His teachings on kindness and compassion. Or perhaps that is why Thurman cannot answer the 11 Questions posed to him and HH Dalai Lama? Or perhaps he is harboring a grudge against Shugden practitioners for his    being denied DS empowerment? 


 

[Ensapa]

Thurman ,Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and staunch supporter of HH Dalai Lama, disagrees with Steve Prothero for saying that the views of the Dalai Lama,(Armstrong) and Huston) that all religions "are different paths to the same God" are untrue. Instead, Thurman goes on to clarify that Steve is mistaken about HH Dalai Lama's view. He says that HH Dalai Lama says there are differences between religions and people must respect these differences. However, Thurman goes on to say that HH Dalai Lama believes that all religious followers and non-religious people should have a common platform of belief in kindness and compassion. He reiterates the popular words of HH Dalai Lama: "My religion is kindness".

What I fail to understand is why Thurman cannot see inconsistencies in what the Dalai Lama says and what He does. The Dalai Lama always preaches kindness and compassion. But the CTA's actions and HH Dalai Lama's actions against Dorje Shugden practitioners (who do no harm to others, but are merely expressing their Guru Devotion in their practice of Shugden)are inconsistent with His teachings on kindness and compassion. Or perhaps that is why Thurman cannot answer the 11 Questions posed to him and HH Dalai Lama? Or perhaps he is harboring a grudge against Shugden practitioners for his    being denied DS empowerment?

thurman is one of the many propaganda writers that CTA has at its disposal. The others include george dreyfus and david kay who both criticize and accuse Pabongkha Rinpoche of being sectarian and reinforcing the rumour that Pabongkha Rinpoche destroyed statues of Guru Rinpoche but there are not explicit evidence such as the exact year or which river the statues were thrown into, name of monasteries converted into Gelugpa....because their goal is to write materials that defame Dorje Shugden and Pabongkha. Their time will end and they will be looked upon as clowns once the ban comes down as people realize that they were fed lies by so called scholars.