Is Geshe Kelsang A Geshe?

[thaimonk]

You don't want to hear anything regarding GKG, then don't talk about the Dalai lama. This is not a NKT forum where people can just go on and on about hate campaigns about the Dalai Lama. If you wish to talk about the Dalai Lama, well, then debate, questions and inquiries may be made by any lama. Keep it consistent. We've been reading three years worth of insults towards the Dalai Lama. So when GKG is in this forum, why not discuss.

So stop trolling re the Dalai Lama. I like him. You don't. So what? You like GKG, others don't. So what?

We either talk about anyone or no one.

[icy]

I have no doubt about Dalai Lama and GKG.  Both Dalai Lama and GKG are great lamas.   If we think it through both of the two Lamas have great motivation and without doubt are qualified masters.  Their only motivation is  to promote Lord Shugden – their motivation is bodhicitta.   As I see it, the Earth is a stage and Dalai Lama is the playwright and main actor while GKG is the supporting actor to promote and introduce Lord Shugden to the whole wide world so Lord Dorje Shugden may take on a big role massively in this era.  What else could be the reason for 2 mighty Bodhisattvas to fight one another over a mighty Deity? 

Did I side track?  Of course not.  I merely reiterate both of their qualities.  The certification that he is a Geshe is not a criteria or an issue any more. 

[Yeshe]

He is qualified to be a Geshe, but since he never took the final exams, he is offcially not a Geshe by monastic standards and recognition?

I have reported this post as you are just trolling. You've had plenty of evidence and discussion and have ignored some very clear explanations which prove that by the relevant monastic standards he is a Geshe. The fact that you then keep repeating this question is just trolling.

Of course I don't know your intention, but since you ignore all comment in favour of GKG I conclude you are just dragging out a prolonged smear in this thread, in the passive aggressive style.  You also phrase your question in the negative 'he is officially not' which gives away your intention - guilty until proven innocent.

Has it occurred to ask for evidence to prove that GKG is not a Geshe?  I doubt it.  Trolling.

NO personal accusations. Keep the debate on the subject matter at all times.

Mana

Mana

So repeated statements to the effect that a respected guru is not qualified is OK?  Is that not a personal attack?

I stated a fact, not an accusation.  The repeated nature of these attacks on GKG in this thread fits perfectly the definition of trolling, which is:

''Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet, generally on message boards. ''

Exactly the same point about this member was made in the second post of the Lucy James thread. Just mischief making which serves no other purpose than malice.

Then we have the anger-laden reply from thaimonk is to the effect that as others insult HHDL, he feels free to insult GKG.  And also accuses the NKT of hate campaigns, without Mods taking any action at all.

So now we have established clearly the motivation and the action.  I described what 'thaimonk'  has now owned up to.  In effect, he is upset that HHDL is being criticised so thinks repeated accusations in several threads about GKG and the NKT is a suitable response from a Buddhist.

I hope people who are writing such posts do not have vows - insulting a Bhikkhu is a disgrace.  Insulting the practices of other Buddhists (NKT) is also a downfall and a disgrace.

Terms of Service:
''We promote and value HARMONY. Please do not post anything negative about any lamas, sects, deities or anyone. ''

If this is what the forum ends up looking like, allowing threads intended to spread insults and smears, I think it would be better shut down again.  I also have vows and will not be supporting a forum which permits this kind of content to be published against Sangha. Goodbye.


maitri

Yeshe

[Yeshe]

You don't want to hear anything regarding GKG, then don't talk about the Dalai lama. This is not a NKT forum where people can just go on and on about hate campaigns about the Dalai Lama. If you wish to talk about the Dalai Lama, well, then debate, questions and inquiries may be made by any lama. Keep it consistent. We've been reading three years worth of insults towards the Dalai Lama. So when GKG is in this forum, why not discuss.

So stop trolling re the Dalai Lama. I like him. You don't. So what? You like GKG, others don't. So what?

We either talk about anyone or no one.

Um...if you mean me I haven't posted anything here against HHDL.  In analogy I stated that some people assert that he is not the true Dalai Lama but that this would make no difference to his followers, and that in the same way, if some decide that GKG is not a Geshe it makes no difference. 

I have not stated whether I like or dislike either of the Geshes concerned here.  Neither did I say I was affiliated to the NKT or the Gelugpa under HHDL. But feel free to invent what you need to feed your anger.  I thought this forum was about not taking sides, but maybe you know better.

Anger is always destructive. There seems to be a lot of it about on this forum. It may be good, therefore, to read what people actually write, rather than invent a straw man argument based on what they did NOT say, in order to have a rant.

On a forum abour Dorje Shugden I'd love to know how we could discuss 'no one'.  Discussion here relates to 'anyone' but there are basic rules of behaviour, which repeated accusations about a Bhikkhu must surely break.

Your extraordinary accusation against the NKT, that it undertakes hate campaigns, is also attacking the practice of other Buddhists and is a major downfall, not to mention surely a breach of rules here.

Terms of Service:
''We promote and value HARMONY. Please do not post anything negative about any lamas, sects, deities or anyone. ''

I have nothing more to say on this thread, as it seems these repeated angry accusations, ignoring any factual debate and inventing straw men to fight, are to be permitted to run on and on if they emanate from this member, whether it be the NKT or Lucy James or GKG - the agenda is clear.

Very sad.


maitri

Yeshe 

[pgdharma]

I have no doubt about Dalai Lama and GKG.  Both Dalai Lama and GKG are great lamas.   If we think it through both of the two Lamas have great motivation and without doubt are qualified masters.  Their only motivation is  to promote Lord Shugden – their motivation is bodhicitta.   As I see it, the Earth is a stage and Dalai Lama is the playwright and main actor while GKG is the supporting actor to promote and introduce Lord Shugden to the whole wide world so Lord Dorje Shugden may take on a big role massively in this era.  What else could be the reason for 2 mighty Bodhisattvas to fight one another over a mighty Deity? 

Did I side track?  Of course not.  I merely reiterate both of their qualities.  The certification that he is a Geshe is not a criteria or an issue any more. 

Very well said. Both of them are great  lamas. Their qualities are beyond our comprehension.

[Dondrup Shugden]

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is one of the Great Masters who made a stand to steadfastly continue to worship Dorje Shugden and started the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT).  His organisation has grown by leaps and bounds and since from the beginning there had been smear campaigns against him to the point of suggesting he is not a Geshe.

How could his teaching attract so many followers and NKT is so huge, if there is no soundness in what he teaches? 

Many have contributed their opinions in this article and all I can do as a token of appreciation to great Shugden lamas is to revive this for your viewing.