Hate Others Forever?

[andrew paisley]

I have found that because of Dorje Shugden being my protector,who protects in many ways "outer" and inner..it has been enormous benefit. What I mean is if my protector wasnt surrounded by all this "stuff"..it would be much easier for me to not try to practice purely..so I think I am at an advantage from the point of view of being inspired to want to practice purely....its kind of wanting to repay this kindness of being protected also..were it not for my protector i dont think i would be sat here now...i would probably be in a hell realm. His virtuous energy is very powerful...even when ive been sat in practice for a long time and become lethargic and negative and a bit stagnant..as soon as I begin D.S. practice i can feel positive energy and am nourished and reminded why i came to the Dharma and why i will stay with the Dharma...my God is Bodhichitta(the greatest good)...Just looking at an image of Dorje Shugden is looking at the whole path to Enlightenment. He is so many things..all of them good. All of them Pure and all represent the Greatest Good.

[Losang_Tenpa]

Andrew, so nice to see you here on the forum! Welcome!!!

I have always been inspired by the way you phrase things. Keep posting, I am sure many others here will appreciate your words as well.

Duke

[WisdomBeing]

Andrew,

Lovely to see you on the forum! You always have nice things to share so this is a great place to do it.

Re what you said, i always feel refreshed whenever i do my Dorje Shugden prayers. I can be irritable and tired and sometimes (ok confession time), I really don't want to do my prayers due to laziness but when i force myself to do them, I always feel really great after. Just shows that my inner maras really need their butts kicked.

I love looking at images of Dorje Shugden too. (i love the gallery on this website.. it's such a treasure trove)

Just looking at an image of Dorje Shugden is looking at the whole path to Enlightenment. He is so many things..all of them good. All of them Pure and all represent the Greatest Good.

All i can say to that is Amen

[jessicajameson]

Hey Andrew!!!

Great to see you back on the forum! ...A lot easier to discuss than on Facebook, isn't it!

What I mean is if my protector wasnt surrounded by all this "stuff"..it would be much easier for me to not try to practice purely..so I think I am at an advantage from the point of view of being inspired to want to practice purely....its kind of wanting to repay this kindness of being protected also..

Why do you feel that it's easier for you to practice purely with DS in the controversy?

[beggar]

Hello Andrew!
Welcome! Do add more comments and your thoughts. You write very well and you express your thoughts very well. Thank you.

I found this very interesting: 

What I mean is if my protector wasnt surrounded by all this "stuff"..it would be much easier for me to not try to practice purely..so I think I am at an advantage from the point of view of being inspired to want to practice purely....its kind of wanting to repay this kindness of being protected also..

I believe many people are "turned on" to practice more because of this controversy. Look, banned books become bestsellers on the blackmarket for a reason - people appreciate them more because they are not accessible. In the same way, we appreciate DS more because his practice was very nearly taken away from us; we almost didn't have him and his protection anymore.

Yes, I agree with what you have said. when we rely on Dorje Shugden, we are encouraged to think of the enlightened qualities he embodies, and less of the politics. Looks like every single reason  and all this "stuff" does make people think twice about what they might be missing or. Or maybe it is encouraging totally new people to think about what it could be all about.

[hope rainbow]

It is almost as if the 'controversy' was a training for us to engage in steady guru devotion, as well as in compassion and intelligence.
It makes us think, it makes us debate, and it makes our mind more stable as a result (if we think and debate properly that is).

What's our focus? Is it the controversy? Then the delusional immediate reaction we have is to divide in two opposed sides and a neutral background, then we pick a side and we start throwing stones at the other side, the one responsible for our misery! Perhaps we receive a few stones back a us, and then we are very sure that we are on the good side and that the other sie is wrong and mean!

What else can our focus be? We can try this:
1. stop throwing stones.
2. think
3. debate
4. broaden our view (beyond the two sides kind of world vision)
5. develop faith in HHTDL, in Trijang Rinpohe, in DS, in our lineage and in our own guru
6. help others to undertake steps 1 to 5 above, especially tose of us who have unfortunatelly become bitter over the 'controversy'

[beggar]

What else can our focus be? We can try this:
1. stop throwing stones.
2. think
3. debate
4. broaden our view (beyond the two sides kind of world vision)
5. develop faith in HHTDL, in Trijang Rinpohe, in DS, in our lineage and in our own guru
6. help others to undertake steps 1 to 5 above, especially tose of us who have unfortunatelly become bitter over the 'controversy'

This is very good. You are a real hope shining big rainbows into a difficult and very painful situation. Many people have posted the 8 verses of mind transformation in various threads on this forum - this is the best kind of practice we can adopt in relations to DS. Dorje Shugden encourages method and wisdom, selflessness.

Lojong teaches us to see our enemies as treasures. The current situation offers us the best way to practice this. How do we react at every moment? And how does this reflect our own very holy protector. the "stuff" that andrew talks about are like all the environmental conditions for our karmas to open up - either to practice or just to create more "stuff" and trouble for ourselves.

Let's change the karma. Hope Rainbow shows us how! don't "hate others forever". Maybe we cannot love them forever yet but at least just learn not to return harm with more harm.

yours, beggar

[triesa]

It is almost as if the 'controversy' was a training for us to engage in steady guru devotion, as well as in compassion and intelligence.
It makes us think, it makes us debate, and it makes our mind more stable as a result (if we think and debate properly that is).

What's our focus? Is it the controversy? Then the delusional immediate reaction we have is to divide in two opposed sides and a neutral background, then we pick a side and we start throwing stones at the other side, the one responsible for our misery! Perhaps we receive a few stones back a us, and then we are very sure that we are on the good side and that the other sie is wrong and mean!

What else can our focus be? We can try this:
1. stop throwing stones.
2. think
3. debate
4. broaden our view (beyond the two sides kind of world vision)
5. develop faith in HHTDL, in Trijang Rinpohe, in DS, in our lineage and in our own guru
6. help others to undertake steps 1 to 5 above, especially tose of us who have unfortunatelly become bitter over the 'controversy'

Yes, Hoperainbow, I love what you wrote here. And I think this is exactly what a Dorje Shugden practitioner can do to set a good example. After all, that is what DS wants us to practice, spreading harmony with logic, and not hatred with arrogance.

I always see no point of creating more hatred in anything at all, simply because there is already so much of it. And it is always more meaningful to use our energy to heal others and to reduce hatred. That is our job.

[Losang_Tenpa]

I found this very helpful. It is from the biography of Kyabje Domo Rinpoche by Ursula Bernis.

Domo Geshe Rinpoche was best known at Sera for his unwavering Guru devotion and for his perfect behavior. The picture of Tibet's Regent, Tagdra Rinpoche, Geshe Rinpoche's ordination master, was placed on the altar at Tromo Labrang. Since Geshe Jampa Chömbe was Guru to many other scholars, large numbers of the Sera monks came to Tromo Labrang. During and after the time of conflict between the regent and ex-regent, many of those monks made terribly derogatory remarks upon seeing Tagdra Rinpoche's picture. But Domo Geshe Rinpoche, barely a teenager then, never got angry at them. He just laughed and did not respond in any negative way. Nor was he the slightest bit intimidated by the older monks' behavior. Those who knew him well said that he never criticized anybody and in the conflict between the regent and ex-regent that divided Tibetans politically, Geshe Rinpoche never took sides but consistently maintained a religious perspective and kept good connections with both. As history has proven, this is a rare and unusual accomplishment.

[Vajraprotector]

Thank you Tenzin Sungrab for the story about Kyabje Domo Rinpoche.

That reminded me of the great example of Trijang Rinpoche and also 101st Gaden Trisur Rinpoche. Although they were involved in the politics due to their position, but politics were not of their interest.

I especially admire Trisur Rinpoche Lungrik Namgyal, who completed his term of 7 years as Gaden Tripa, and then join Shar Gaden and made his wishes to practice public.

I quote from the thread (posted by TK):
HH Trisur Rinpoche had to wait this long until the term of office as Gaden Tripa completed to MAKE THIS MOVE BECAUSE IF HE HAD MADE THIS MOVE EARLIER, THE DALAI LAMA WOULD HAVE REMOVED HIM FROM OFFICE. And that would not be good for the Gelug on the whole. NOW THAT HE HAS FINISHED HIS TERM, HE CAN DO WHAT HE LIKES. NO ONE CAN TOUCH HIM, DISTURB HIM OR DISGRACE HIS POSITION. INCREDIBLE PLANNING. THIS WAS RELAYED BY HIS PERSONAL ASSISTANT!


These great lamas have great consideration for others even when it comes to matters of their own practice. We should really heed their example.

[WisdomBeing]

Thank you Tenzin Sungrab for the story about Kyabje Domo Rinpoche.

That reminded me of the great example of Trijang Rinpoche and also 101st Gaden Trisur Rinpoche. Although they were involved in the politics due to their position, but politics were not of their interest.

I especially admire Trisur Rinpoche Lungrik Namgyal, who completed his term of 7 years as Gaden Tripa, and then join Shar Gaden and made his wishes to practice public.

I quote from the thread (posted by TK):
HH Trisur Rinpoche had to wait this long until the term of office as Gaden Tripa completed to MAKE THIS MOVE BECAUSE IF HE HAD MADE THIS MOVE EARLIER, THE DALAI LAMA WOULD HAVE REMOVED HIM FROM OFFICE. And that would not be good for the Gelug on the whole. NOW THAT HE HAS FINISHED HIS TERM, HE CAN DO WHAT HE LIKES. NO ONE CAN TOUCH HIM, DISTURB HIM OR DISGRACE HIS POSITION. INCREDIBLE PLANNING. THIS WAS RELAYED BY HIS PERSONAL ASSISTANT!


These great lamas have great consideration for others even when it comes to matters of their own practice. We should really heed their example.

Vajraprotector,

I also like TK's reference to the 101st Gaden Tripa's actions of waiting until his term of office was complete before he publicised his loyalty to Dorje Shugden, I know that awhile back there was some rather passionate discussion on this forum about who the incarnation of Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen is and some forum members were asking why he (or even she? who knows) doesn't want to openly declare him or herself yet. Perhaps it is also a matter of timing too? eg if the incarnation is currently an Abbot or a key person of a major monastery, he would wait til an opportune time e.g. retirement, or else there may be unnecessary obstacles.

[pgdharma]

I have found that because of Dorje Shugden being my protector,who protects in many ways "outer" and inner..it has been enormous benefit. What I mean is if my protector wasnt surrounded by all this "stuff"..it would be much easier for me to not try to practice purely..so I think I am at an advantage from the point of view of being inspired to want to practice purely....its kind of wanting to repay this kindness of being protected also..were it not for my protector i dont think i would be sat here now...i would probably be in a hell realm. His virtuous energy is very powerful...even when ive been sat in practice for a long time and become lethargic and negative and a bit stagnant..as soon as I begin D.S. practice i can feel positive energy and am nourished and reminded why i came to the Dharma and why i will stay with the Dharma...my God is Bodhichitta(the greatest good)...Just looking at an image of Dorje Shugden is looking at the whole path to Enlightenment. He is so many things..all of them good. All of them Pure and all represent the Greatest Good.

Without the controversy, not many people will be aware of Dorje Shugden. People like you and me would not want or try to practice . But after checking through the websites and learning more about the benefits of Dorje Shugden practice, I will never give up this practice.

[beggar]

I found this very helpful. It is from the biography of Kyabje Domo Rinpoche by Ursula Bernis.

Domo Geshe Rinpoche was best known at Sera for his unwavering Guru devotion and for his perfect behavior. The picture of Tibet's Regent, Tagdra Rinpoche, Geshe Rinpoche's ordination master, was placed on the altar at Tromo Labrang. Since Geshe Jampa Chömbe was Guru to many other scholars, large numbers of the Sera monks came to Tromo Labrang. During and after the time of conflict between the regent and ex-regent, many of those monks made terribly derogatory remarks upon seeing Tagdra Rinpoche's picture. But Domo Geshe Rinpoche, barely a teenager then, never got angry at them. He just laughed and did not respond in any negative way. Nor was he the slightest bit intimidated by the older monks' behavior. Those who knew him well said that he never criticized anybody and in the conflict between the regent and ex-regent that divided Tibetans politically, Geshe Rinpoche never took sides but consistently maintained a religious perspective and kept good connections with both. As history has proven, this is a rare and unusual accomplishment.

This account shows examples of two very clear things:
1) not speaking badly against any lama
2) maintaining pure view in your own mind of your teacher, no matter what outward appearances may be.

This also reminds me of the account of Dalai Lama and his guru who was also the regent (I believe this is the same). He explains in his writings that even in this time of conflict, his guru is downstairs in a JAIL for some very harmful or even evil plots. But in his meditations, the dalai lama continues to see his guru as the buddha, perfect and attained. It goes to show: we can focus on the negative qualities or we can train our minds to focus on the good qualities that we are also trying to build in our own minds, body, speech, practice.

thank you for sharing this - it is very inspiration for keeping a steady, positive mind!

humbly, happily, yours, Beggar

[Ensapa]

I found this very helpful. It is from the biography of Kyabje Domo Rinpoche by Ursula Bernis.

Domo Geshe Rinpoche was best known at Sera for his unwavering Guru devotion and for his perfect behavior. The picture of Tibet's Regent, Tagdra Rinpoche, Geshe Rinpoche's ordination master, was placed on the altar at Tromo Labrang. Since Geshe Jampa Chömbe was Guru to many other scholars, large numbers of the Sera monks came to Tromo Labrang. During and after the time of conflict between the regent and ex-regent, many of those monks made terribly derogatory remarks upon seeing Tagdra Rinpoche's picture. But Domo Geshe Rinpoche, barely a teenager then, never got angry at them. He just laughed and did not respond in any negative way. Nor was he the slightest bit intimidated by the older monks' behavior. Those who knew him well said that he never criticized anybody and in the conflict between the regent and ex-regent that divided Tibetans politically, Geshe Rinpoche never took sides but consistently maintained a religious perspective and kept good connections with both. As history has proven, this is a rare and unusual accomplishment.

At this point of time, not taking sides is indeed a very rare feat that few people can practice. If we really believe in our Gurus, then why is there a need to take sides? Domo Geshe's example of not taking sides is something that we should all emulate because what is the use of taking sides? What kind of benefit do we hope to derive from siding with one side and talking bad against the other? If we were really in the Dharma for the Dharma and not just to cover our insecurities, then why is it even necessary to take sides in the first place? there is no reason, absolutely no reason, to take sides. Taking sides just shows one thing: we're not sincere with the Dharma and we just want to be in Dharma for the sake of being on the right side and not for the sake of the teachings. With such a flawless example, it is kinda sad that so many people still prefer to look on to flashy titles and being politically correct in their Dharma practice. How samsaric!

Again, this story reminds us that we should not take sides, especially when it comes to Dharma practice because there is no point. If our goal is enlightenment, does it help us on our journey to be with the more famous teacher? yes it gives us security, but its only on a very superficial level.

[Losang_Tenpa]

I found this very helpful. It is from the biography of Kyabje Domo Rinpoche by Ursula Bernis.

Domo Geshe Rinpoche was best known at Sera for his unwavering Guru devotion and for his perfect behavior. The picture of Tibet's Regent, Tagdra Rinpoche, Geshe Rinpoche's ordination master, was placed on the altar at Tromo Labrang. Since Geshe Jampa Chömbe was Guru to many other scholars, large numbers of the Sera monks came to Tromo Labrang. During and after the time of conflict between the regent and ex-regent, many of those monks made terribly derogatory remarks upon seeing Tagdra Rinpoche's picture. But Domo Geshe Rinpoche, barely a teenager then, never got angry at them. He just laughed and did not respond in any negative way. Nor was he the slightest bit intimidated by the older monks' behavior. Those who knew him well said that he never criticized anybody and in the conflict between the regent and ex-regent that divided Tibetans politically, Geshe Rinpoche never took sides but consistently maintained a religious perspective and kept good connections with both. As history has proven, this is a rare and unusual accomplishment.

At this point of time, not taking sides is indeed a very rare feat that few people can practice. If we really believe in our Gurus, then why is there a need to take sides? Domo Geshe's example of not taking sides is something that we should all emulate because what is the use of taking sides? What kind of benefit do we hope to derive from siding with one side and talking bad against the other? If we were really in the Dharma for the Dharma and not just to cover our insecurities, then why is it even necessary to take sides in the first place? there is no reason, absolutely no reason, to take sides. Taking sides just shows one thing: we're not sincere with the Dharma and we just want to be in Dharma for the sake of being on the right side and not for the sake of the teachings. With such a flawless example, it is kinda sad that so many people still prefer to look on to flashy titles and being politically correct in their Dharma practice. How samsaric!

Again, this story reminds us that we should not take sides, especially when it comes to Dharma practice because there is no point. If our goal is enlightenment, does it help us on our journey to be with the more famous teacher? yes it gives us security, but its only on a very superficial level.

I agree with this very much.
With the help of my Teacher, I am making an effort to keep my mind neutral. I do not agree with the ban, but due to my limited understanding I can not claim what is really going on in a definitive way.
My only way to combat the ban is by supporting our monks and monasteries. I have found that the endless debate and thrashing of ideas is not helping me in assisting my friends and brothers here at Shar Gaden. Not that the debates and such are not important, but due to my proximity to the monastery I feel it is better  for me to focus only on proactively supporting our monks.