A Living Buddha?

[DharmaDefender]

I was doing my usual thing on Twitter when this news item appeared (http://www.zeenews.com/news645312.html):

Beijing: Amid chanting of hymns and sutras, a five-year-old Tibetan boy chosen to head a Buddhist sect in Tibet was "enthroned" as the sixth 'Living Buddha' on Monday with the approval of the Chinese government.

The boy was enthroned as sixth 'Living Buddha' Dezhub according to Tibetan Buddhist rituals at Zagor Monastery in Tibet's Shannan Prefecture, about a month after he was selected through a draw of lot, to be the reincarnation of the fifth Living Buddha Dezhub who died in March 2000.

At the inaugural ceremony, Losang Jigme, Tibet's top official in charge of religious affairs, read out the regional government's approval of the enthronement, official Xinhua news agency reported today.

As hundreds of monks chanted sutras to pray for peace and happiness, the crimson-robed 'Living Buddha' paid his respects to statues of Lord Buddha at the monastery before he was seated on the throne.

The solemn-looking 5-year-old sat straight when he was adorned with a yellow cassock and yellow hat, the symbols of the Gelugpa school, also known as the Yellow Sect, one of the four streams of Tibetan Buddhism.

The young Living Buddha, whose secular name is Losang Doje, was born in Shannan on November 30, 2005. He was chosen as a candidates after years of searching by senior monks in tune with religious practice and traditions.

He was selected as the reincarnation and was tonsured by Bainqen Erdini Qoigyijabu, the Chinese government appointed 11th Panchen Lama, in Lhasa on July 4. The Panchen Lama also gave him the religious name Dezhub Jamyang Sherab Palde.

Tibetan Buddhism has three most important monks, the Dalai Lama (political and spiritual head), Panchen Lama (regarded as second in command) and Karmapa Lama (head of largest Buddhist sub-sect Karma Kagyu).

Besides these three, the Himalayan region has hundreds of living Buddhas regarded as eminent monks, some of whom are heads of various sects of the Tibetan Buddhist schools of thoughts.

I'm not sure how relevant the topic is to this forum since it isn't linked to Dorje Shugden, although the topic of tulkus and the tulku system has been brought up a lot recently...and this topic has some similarities to the controversy surrounding the identification of a Panchen Lama by the Chinese government (by an atheist government? Really?).

I was just wondering what everyone thought about it. The article seems quite general in saying he is a Living Buddha, and I couldn't find any more information regarding the reincarnation this boy is purported to be. Aren't there thousands of living Buddhas amongst us? Can anyone shed some light into this?

[DSFriend]

Did a quick search and this news seems to be in quite a few Chinese news websites. I have no doubt there are many living Buddhas amongst us. What I find encouraging is that China is recognizing, enthrone, publish news related to religion. Think about the number of people who will be reading the news in china. May these millions of people find solace in the BuddhaDharma.

[jessicajameson]

@DharmaDefender I didn't know that there were only (up till now) 6 Living Buddhas. I honestly believe that there are many living Buddhas existing in the world today. Aren't we all meant to perceive our gurus as living Buddhas, anyways? (Or not?  )

Anyways, I did a search up on this topic (well interesting!) and this came up: Living Buddha Chosen by Lottery http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6447147-living-buddha-chosen-by-lottery !!!

Upon reading the title, I've got to admit, I grinned in amusement, then I read the article and it's true! (at least according to this piece of information) : "The Chinese government approved the choice after local officials went through the traditional process. Two names were sealed in silk bags and put in a golden urn, Xinhua reported."

Is that really the traditional process?


That boy (sorry, I mean, 6th Living Buddha) is terribly adorable though

[shugdenprotect]

DSFriend, I agree with you, it is wonderful that many Chinese individuals will be exposed to this news about Dharma. As more information about Tibetan Buddhism is presented in public media, more people will begin to search for greater understanding. Currently, Dharma practice in China is based on tradition and superstition. It would be wonderful for the practice to be driven by understanding, which I believe will happen one day soon as more learned Dharma masters arise to spread the Dharma back in the East.

In relation to the identification process of a Living Buddha, I do not believe it is as simple as lottery. From my understanding, much care is put into the identification of a living Buddha such as approval by approved oracles and the Sangha body after tedious examination and trials.

As my understanding is next to nil, it would be very helpful is someone can share the details of this!

[WisdomBeing]

Aren't Tulkus all living Buddhas? I don't think there can only be 6 'living Buddhas' in the world..

Also, i know that if we have a Guru, we are supposed to see our Gurus as the living Buddha, whether they really are or not. In those cases, it may be subjective according to the student but there are Lamas who are undoubtedly holy beings, such as the two magnificent Lamas I just read about today - Geshe Tsultim Gyeltsen and Geshe Rabten. I believe HE Gangchen Lama is also a 'living Buddha' etc. Perhaps there are only 6 official living Buddhas in China, though I would think there would be more.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[Big Uncle]

As far as I know, the title 'Living Buddha' is a rough Chinese translation for Rinpoche. It doesn't literally mean that the Lama is actually a living Buddha. It is just one of those old translations that was never corrected and given a better term and so it stuck since ancient times. Perhaps in Chinese, it sounds appropriate but not when it is translated into English though. Does anybody within this forum know more about this?

In Tibetan, Rinpoche just means 'precious one' referring to an esteemed Lama or teacher who gained his title through through the merit of having achieved an outstanding spiritual feat like reciting and memorising the Kangyur and receiving the title Kangyur Rinpoche.

Also, one could have gone through the Gelug rigorous hierarchy and becoming the Abbot of the monastery, which is not a small feat... one is bestowed with the title Ken Rinpoche or precious Abbot. Hence, one's incarnation begins from there and retired Abbot's are renamed as Kensur Rinpoche while Abbot incarnations are called Kentrul Rinpoche.

On top of that, the head of the Gelug school is the Gaden Tri Rinpoche or the throne holder of the Gaden tradition. This Lama is elected into office and stays in office for only a short period of 7 years. After retiring, he becomes the Trisur Rinpoche but I am not sure what the incarnations are name... Perhaps Tritul Rinpoche? Anybody know about this?

Big Uncle

[DharmaDefender]

As far as I know, the title 'Living Buddha' is a rough Chinese translation for Rinpoche. It doesn't literally mean that the Lama is actually a living Buddha. It is just one of those old translations that was never corrected and given a better term and so it stuck since ancient times. Perhaps in Chinese, it sounds appropriate but not when it is translated into English though. Does anybody within this forum know more about this?

In Tibetan, Rinpoche just means 'precious one' referring to an esteemed Lama or teacher who gained his title through through the merit of having achieved an outstanding spiritual feat like reciting and memorising the Kangyur and receiving the title Kangyur Rinpoche.

Also, one could have gone through the Gelug rigorous hierarchy and becoming the Abbot of the monastery, which is not a small feat... one is bestowed with the title Ken Rinpoche or precious Abbot. Hence, one's incarnation begins from there and retired Abbot's are renamed as Kensur Rinpoche while Abbot incarnations are called Kentrul Rinpoche.

On top of that, the head of the Gelug school is the Gaden Tri Rinpoche or the throne holder of the Gaden tradition. This Lama is elected into office and stays in office for only a short period of 7 years. After retiring, he becomes the Trisur Rinpoche but I am not sure what the incarnations are name... Perhaps Tritul Rinpoche? Anybody know about this?

Big Uncle

Thank you everyone for your responses. Like a far few people have pointed out, I did think that our gurus are living Buddhas to us, being the ones who give us access to the Dharma. I just found it odd that they were counting Buddhas, when Maitreya's not even come yet...and it's in the sutras saying he's the next one to come along! Perhaps Wisdom Being does have a point, maybe he is the sixth state-approved living Buddha in China.

@jessicajameson - that's how they selected the Panchen Lama (golden urn). As far as I'm aware, the traditional process more matches what shugdenprotect described, which is that reincarnations must be approved by oracles and by the sangha. The process carried out by the Chinese does seem to be quite lottery-based...literally picking names out of a hat?

@shugdenprotect - it's funny you say that "Currently, Dharma practice in China is based on tradition and superstition. It would be wonderful for the practice to be driven by understanding..." when the process conducted by the Chinese seems very much based on tradition and superstition! but negativity aside, it will increase exposure...planting the seeds? As there is acceptance of what they call 'lamaism' continues to grow, I think it will lay the foundation for Dorje Shugden's practice to spread there.

@Big Uncle - I did not know that the rough Chinese translation for 'Rinpoche' is Living Buddha. Even then, it seemed quite strange (and very specific!) to mention he is the sixth!

Regarding the question of reincarnations of Gaden Tripas, I did a search online and found the following. They aren't official sources that confirm that 'Tritul' refers to the reincarnation of a Gaden Tripa, but by logical inference (based on what you said about Kentrul Rinpoches), it does seem to make sense...

On http://www.gyutocenter.org/center/gyuto-vajrayana-center/resident-teachers/45-khensur-dhakpa-rinpoche.html , it mentions that "Venerable Khensur Dhakpa Tritul Rinpoche, a former Abbot of Sera Me Monastic University, is the recognized reincarnation of 49th Gaden Tripa Lobsang Dhargye Rinpoche".

Similarly, on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DharmaNews/message/1574 , it mentions that "The reincarnated Official Head of the Gelugpa Tradition, the 32nd Ganden Tripa – Tinley Kunkyab Rinpoche of Sera Jhe Monastery – is born in Nangchen, Kham in Tibet."

[harrynephew]

The term "Living Buddha" has never been used in the Chinese context in ancient China before. It was only after the establishment of the Gelug order in the imperial courts by the great master Chankya Rolpa Dorje, to grace the throne as the royal advisor of religious affairs in the country, the great emperor at that time out of courtesy, respect for this holy master, gave him this title of "Living Buddha". It was then adapted into later generations and other Rinpoches who were visiting and giving teachings in China.

Prior to the advent of Gelug, the Chinese would offer their greatest respectful title of "??“ or in lay terms, "Great Master"

as to this incarnation recognition, it is a whole new system advocated by the Chinese government which have no transparency on how the entire process of looking for an incarnate as mentioned.

just my few cents
H1N1

[pgdharma]

As far as I know, the title 'Living Buddha' is a rough Chinese translation for Rinpoche. It doesn't literally mean that the Lama is actually a living Buddha. It is just one of those old translations that was never corrected and given a better term and so it stuck since ancient times. Perhaps in Chinese, it sounds appropriate but not when it is translated into English though. Does anybody within this forum know more about this?

In Tibetan, Rinpoche just means 'precious one' referring to an esteemed Lama or teacher who gained his title through through the merit of having achieved an outstanding spiritual feat like reciting and memorising the Kangyur and receiving the title Kangyur Rinpoche.

Also, one could have gone through the Gelug rigorous hierarchy and becoming the Abbot of the monastery, which is not a small feat... one is bestowed with the title Ken Rinpoche or precious Abbot. Hence, one's incarnation begins from there and retired Abbot's are renamed as Kensur Rinpoche while Abbot incarnations are called Kentrul Rinpoche.

On top of that, the head of the Gelug school is the Gaden Tri Rinpoche or the throne holder of the Gaden tradition. This Lama is elected into office and stays in office for only a short period of 7 years. After retiring, he becomes the Trisur Rinpoche but I am not sure what the incarnations are name... Perhaps Tritul Rinpoche? Anybody know about this?

Big Uncle

Thank you everyone for your responses. Like a far few people have pointed out, I did think that our gurus are living Buddhas to us, being the ones who give us access to the Dharma. I just found it odd that they were counting Buddhas, when Maitreya's not even come yet...and it's in the sutras saying he's the next one to come along! Perhaps Wisdom Being does have a point, maybe he is the sixth state-approved living Buddha in China.

@jessicajameson - that's how they selected the Panchen Lama (golden urn). As far as I'm aware, the traditional process more matches what shugdenprotect described, which is that reincarnations must be approved by oracles and by the sangha. The process carried out by the Chinese does seem to be quite lottery-based...literally picking names out of a hat?

@shugdenprotect - it's funny you say that "Currently, Dharma practice in China is based on tradition and superstition. It would be wonderful for the practice to be driven by understanding..." when the process conducted by the Chinese seems very much based on tradition and superstition! but negativity aside, it will increase exposure...planting the seeds? As there is acceptance of what they call 'lamaism' continues to grow, I think it will lay the foundation for Dorje Shugden's practice to spread there.

@Big Uncle - I did not know that the rough Chinese translation for 'Rinpoche' is Living Buddha. Even then, it seemed quite strange (and very specific!) to mention he is the sixth!

Regarding the question of reincarnations of Gaden Tripas, I did a search online and found the following. They aren't official sources that confirm that 'Tritul' refers to the reincarnation of a Gaden Tripa, but by logical inference (based on what you said about Kentrul Rinpoches), it does seem to make sense...

On http://www.gyutocenter.org/center/gyuto-vajrayana-center/resident-teachers/45-khensur-dhakpa-rinpoche.html , it mentions that "Venerable Khensur Dhakpa Tritul Rinpoche, a former Abbot of Sera Me Monastic University, is the recognized reincarnation of 49th Gaden Tripa Lobsang Dhargye Rinpoche".

Similarly, on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DharmaNews/message/1574 , it mentions that "The reincarnated Official Head of the Gelugpa Tradition, the 32nd Ganden Tripa – Tinley Kunkyab Rinpoche of Sera Jhe Monastery – is born in Nangchen, Kham in Tibet."

Thank you, everyone   for your explanations. Initially I also thought that our Gurus are living Buddhas too!

[wang]

The term "Living Buddha" has never been used in the Chinese context in ancient China before. It was only after the establishment of the Gelug order in the imperial courts by the great master Chankya Rolpa Dorje, to grace the throne as the royal advisor of religious affairs in the country, the great emperor at that time out of courtesy, respect for this holy master, gave him this title of "Living Buddha". It was then adapted into later generations and other Rinpoches who were visiting and giving teachings in China.

Prior to the advent of Gelug, the Chinese would offer their greatest respectful title of "??“ or in lay terms, "Great Master"

as to this incarnation recognition, it is a whole new system advocated by the Chinese government which have no transparency on how the entire process of looking for an incarnate as mentioned.

just my few cents
H1N1

Did a bit of search:
- The wordings of 'Living Buddha' refer to tulkus by Han Chinese, it is still widely used today, though in official environment normally use the more formal 'Rinpoche' or 'Tulku' name.
- It was firstly mentioned in the Han Chinese liteature during Ming Dynasty, the first one with name mentioned was 3rd Dalai Lama
- This 'Living Buddha' title was used by the Qing Dynasty court for Chankya Rolpa Dorje, so you are right on that.

About the little 'Living Buddha' just mentioned in the news:
- He is the 6th re-incarnation of this stream, not only 6 "living Buddha' in the world, not all 'guru' be 'Living Buddha' etc.
- His previous incarnations has been Gaden Tripa, teacher of 12th Dalai lama etc., so belongs to 'high rank' tulku.

About the 'lottery':
- It is not something new.  The 'lottery' system was set up  by the Qing government during 8th Dalai Lama's time, around 200 years ago.  The searching party firstly needed to  indentify 3 or more  candidates by themselves, and did a 'lottery' for the final one in Lhasa.  The purpose of this  system was to dissolve the situation during that time that a lot high lamas(ie Living Buddhas) come from a few royal families and be closely inter-connected.  This system applied to high rank tulkus, not all tulkus,

Besides the 'living Buddha' title, the other titles mostly granted by the government are 'Dharma King', 'Kingdom's Teacher' etc, not only by the Qing Dynasty but also the Ming and Yuan Dynasty for 600+ years.  Dharma King title were grant by emperor to the most  important lamas of different sect, like 'Big Treasure Dharma King' of Kaygu,  'Big Vehicle Dharma King' of Sayka, 'Big Compassion Dharma King' of Geluk(the master who set up Sera Monastery).  Even now, without the emperor's official grant anymore, this 'Dharma King' naming are only used for say Dalai Lama, Panchen Lama, Karmapa, or Dilgo Rinpoche, Penor Rinpoche that rank of top Lamas(actually at least close to lineage head if not lineage head) in different lineages..

[DharmaDefender]

Did a bit of search:
- The wordings of 'Living Buddha' refer to tulkus by Han Chinese, it is still widely used today, though in official environment normally use the more formal 'Rinpoche' or 'Tulku' name.
- It was firstly mentioned in the Han Chinese liteature during Ming Dynasty, the first one with name mentioned was 3rd Dalai Lama
- This 'Living Buddha' title was used by the Qing Dynasty court for Chankya Rolpa Dorje, so you are right on that.

About the little 'Living Buddha' just mentioned in the news:
- He is the 6th re-incarnation of this stream, not only 6 "living Buddha' in the world, not all 'guru' be 'Living Buddha' etc.
- His previous incarnations has been Gaden Tripa, teacher of 12th Dalai lama etc., so belongs to 'high rank' tulku.

About the 'lottery':
- It is not something new.  The 'lottery' system was set up  by the Qing government during 8th Dalai Lama's time, around 200 years ago.  The searching party firstly needed to  indentify 3 or more  candidates by themselves, and did a 'lottery' for the final one in Lhasa.  The purpose of this  system was to dissolve the situation during that time that a lot high lamas(ie Living Buddhas) come from a few royal families and be closely inter-connected.  This system applied to high rank tulkus, not all tulkus,

Besides the 'living Buddha' title, the other titles mostly granted by the government are 'Dharma King', 'Kingdom's Teacher' etc, not only by the Qing Dynasty but also the Ming and Yuan Dynasty for 600+ years.  Dharma King title were used for the most  important lamas of different sect, like Karmapa, Chankya etc.

Thanks for the details wang, especially about the origins of the lottery, twas very helpful. Have you got a source for further information? It just strikes me as a little strange that a government that has declared themselves to be atheist are getting involved with the approval of religious matters.

And forgive me but I'd like to disagree on a few points. Perhaps they are due to a mistranslation of the terms but:

1. Surely there were tulkus and Rinpoches before the 3rd Dalai Lama? I thought that when it came to reincarnations and Dalai Lamas, it is the term 'Dalai Lama' (not 'Rinpoche' or 'tulku') that came into use only with the 3rd Dalai Lama

2. "a five-year-old Tibetan boy chosen to head a Buddhist sect in Tibet was "enthroned" as the sixth 'Living Buddha'" implies that there are only six living Buddhas in total, and doesn't just refer to this line of incarnations. This link describes it a little more (http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6447147-living-buddha-chosen-by-lottery) where it says:

Living Buddhas take the name of Dezhub. The designation of a Living Buddha, who is a reincarnation of Buddhas before him, stems back to Kubla Khan in the 13th century and is the difference between Tibetan Buddhism and others.

3. if I'm not mistaken, from the Vajrayana point-of-view, all gurus are viewed as living Buddhas because they bring the Buddha's teachings to us

Also, where did you find out that one of this boy's incarnations was a Gaden Tripa, as it wasn't mentioned in this article?

Night,
G

[wang]

DharmaDefender,

'where did you find out that one of this boy's incarnations was a Gaden Tripa, as it wasn't mentioned in this article?'

ans: I read the direct source from Chinese media which provide more information.

'It just strikes me as a little strange that a government that has declared themselves to be atheist are getting involved with the approval of religious matters.'

Ans: not really.  The BJ government always refer to this lottery system as a symbol of power over Tibet, as even choice of Dalai Lama need 'lottery' and 'approval' by the BJ government at the end, under BJ government's instruction.  That's why the exile government(or Tibetan seeking independent) defends that yes this was the system but it was not executed most of the time.  In wordings of BJ government they gave 'exemption' when only one candidate found.  In wordings of Lhasa they use tricks to bypass BJ showing they have authority over their own matter.  That is a political game at the end.  I read that the Mongolian followed this system strict in their search of high lama in a article but need further investigation to see how widely executed it was in Tibet and Mongol.

' Surely there were tulkus and Rinpoches before the 3rd Dalai Lama? '

ans: sure.  The Karmapa was the first 'tulku' in Tibet  (as a system) and Karmapa was grant with title 'Great Treasure Dharma King' around 400 years later by the Ming emperor(ie. around 400 years ago, I didn't check the exact year), before 3rd Dalai Lama appeared, now in Chinese we normally honor the current one as '17th Great Treasure Dharma King Karmapa' etc.  What I mean is that this was 3rd Dalai Lama that he was referred as 'Living Buddha' the first time in the Chinese Liteature.  The term 'Living Buddha'  existed and be referred to as 'tulku' in earlier liteature but no actual name of the tulku be mentioned.

" "a five-year-old Tibetan boy chosen to head a Buddhist sect in Tibet was "enthroned" as the sixth 'Living Buddha'" implies that there are only six living Buddhas in total, and doesn't just refer to this line of incarnations. "

ans: it is just something wrong in the translation.  He is the 6th incarnation in this line  as said in the Chinese media.


" if I'm not mistaken, from the Vajrayana point-of-view, all gurus are viewed as living Buddhas because they bring the Buddha's teachings to us"

ans: we view our guru as Buddha, or even more important than the historical Buddha in Lamrim and Tantric teachings.  But that doesn't mean we can push others people to accept him as actual  'Buddha' or 'Living Budha'.  The title of 'Tulku', 'Living Buddha' has an objective measure/historical meaning and we should follow this.  Otherwise it will be a mess...and you see a lot guys claim themselves be 'Living Buddha' , 'Rinpoche' , 'Dharma King' already....

PS: checked that by end of the Qing Dynasty there were around 180 'Living Buddha' in record, so a wild guess is that maybe only 25%  ie around less than 50 tulkus' re-incarnation need going through this 'lottery' system...

[beggar]

Well this is always the debate - are these recognitions from China real or not, especially if we take into consideration the politicking that might come along with their religious actions. Why recognise if they don't believe in religion and buddhas in the first place! Ludicrous!

So which one of the panchen lamas is the right one?

I like to think they are both the right ones. Isn't it possible amitabha Buddha decided to swoop down on earth in two fell swoops and emanate into both the "real" one and the "China one". Jokes on us, haha! since in spite of all our politicking on this 'ere small globe, the Buddhas make sure they are right where they are supposed to be.

Sure, there may not be any proof. But look at it in this way - have either of them done anything harmful? Or are they actually bringing the name of Buddhism further into the world? It certainly is a more positive way of looking at the situation and realising it ain't all that bad. Sure is better than mouthing off about either one and pointing accusing fingers. Because...... after all..... what if BOTH of them really are Amitabha!

[harrynephew]

Well this is always the debate - are these recognitions from China real or not, especially if we take into consideration the politicking that might come along with their religious actions. Why recognise if they don't believe in religion and buddhas in the first place! Ludicrous!

So which one of the panchen lamas is the right one?

I like to think they are both the right ones. Isn't it possible amitabha Buddha decided to swoop down on earth in two fell swoops and emanate into both the "real" one and the "China one". Jokes on us, haha! since in spite of all our politicking on this 'ere small globe, the Buddhas make sure they are right where they are supposed to be.

Sure, there may not be any proof. But look at it in this way - have either of them done anything harmful? Or are they actually bringing the name of Buddhism further into the world? It certainly is a more positive way of looking at the situation and realising it ain't all that bad. Sure is better than mouthing off about either one and pointing accusing fingers. Because...... after all..... what if BOTH of them really are Amitabha!

I like Beggar's approach and thought on this.

I helps gives us an open mind to the manifestations of the Buddhas of our time that it is impossible for the compassion of the Buddhas to limit themselves to just ONE emanation when there are BILLIONs to save in this world.

That being a fact, it also helps our mind to not think so narrowly about the Buddha's capabilities to manifest and emanate into many forms and incarnations in order to benefit the many. It is true that there's always dispute here and there about who's the right one. Why don't we just abandon the debate and focus on all the benefit these Enlightened Masters can bring to humankind?

attaching a link and of the said Dezhu RInpoche and a Chinese link to more news of this enthronement. May this master grow to teach the people of the Middle Kingdom

http://picture.fjnet.com/news/201008/t20100807_165791.htm

H1N1

[DharmaDefender]

[That being a fact, it also helps our mind to not think so narrowly about the Buddha's capabilities to manifest and emanate into many forms and incarnations in order to benefit the many. It is true that there's always dispute here and there about who's the right one. Why don't we just abandon the debate and focus on all the benefit these Enlightened Masters can bring to humankind?

attaching a link and of the said Dezhu RInpoche and a Chinese link to more news of this enthronement. May this master grow to teach the people of the Middle Kingdom

http://picture.fjnet.com/news/201008/t20100807_165791.htm

H1N1

Fair point, I like your way of thinking. In fact, I think it's not just the enlightened masters who can bring benefit to humankind but us too. So even if this lama is real or not, or if the Panchen Lama is the right one or not, every one of us has the capability to help others. I guess it's about making the right choices, fueled by wisdom and compassion, and keeping our refuge vows.