Geshe Rabten and Dorje Shugden

[WisdomBeing]

I was just browsing through the dorjeshugden.com main site and found a gem in the gallery (I love this site!):

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/gallery08.htm

There are pictures of Geshe Rabten's new incarnation and there's a picture of the boy having his first "haircut" by HH Dalai Lama, in 1991.

This and recognitions by the Dalai Lama of Dorje Shugden practitioners underlines what DSFriend says earlier 

If Dalai Lama's wish is to stop Dorje Shugden's practices, then why recognise reincarnated Dorje Shugden practitioners?

This is one of the many inconsistencies which supports my belief in the 'bigger picture' theory, that HH the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden are working together....

[honeydakini]

Sad, Lama Osel went away from FPMT when the students followed the ban, and didn't follow their guru Lama Yeshe's advice to practise Dorje Shugden. I understand the bind that Lama Zopa and his students find themselves in - their hundreds of centres would face difficulties if they lost the support of the Tibetan government, and it might rob hundreds of people the opportunity to meet the Dharma, but it's sad they had to lose their founder and root guru in the process. I don't know if it was necessary.

i think it was not so much the fact that FPMT decided not to continue their practice publically (who knows, they may still be doing the practices quietly...). However, (and this is with no disrespect intended towards Lama Zopa), I have heard that it is not the centres or organisation that is causing problems but that  students within this organisation have taken political stances towards the DS issue and have openly criticised other DS practitioners or centres, or even damaged the works of DS Lamas.

Much of this is what I have heard so I cannot be sure of the validity of these claims, but I imagine that this kind of action may be what also contributes largely to losing their lama. After all, the karma of criticising other Lamas or Dharma centres is that you yourself cannot be close to a qualified lama or receive the teachings to practice, so this would make sense.

[WisdomBeing]

i think it was not so much the fact that FPMT decided not to continue their practice publically (who knows, they may still be doing the practices quietly...). However, (and this is with no disrespect intended towards Lama Zopa), I have heard that it is not the centres or organisation that is causing problems but that  students within this organisation have taken political stances towards the DS issue and have openly criticised other DS practitioners or centres, or even damaged the works of DS Lamas.

Much of this is what I have heard so I cannot be sure of the validity of these claims, but I imagine that this kind of action may be what also contributes largely to losing their lama. After all, the karma of criticising other Lamas or Dharma centres is that you yourself cannot be close to a qualified lama or receive the teachings to practice, so this would make sense.

Hi HoneyD,

I'm just curious - if the students within a Dharma organisation are criticising other lamas or being political, wouldn't the Guru tell them to stop? Or do you think the Guru would tell them to stop but the students don't listen, though I am rather skeptical of this premise, because the Tibetan tradition emphasises so much on the Guru-student relationship that I don't think the students would so openly disobey.

Actually, when you say that it is not the centre or organisation but the students, wouldn't the students make up the organisation or the centre?

[shugdenprotect]

Hi WisdomBeing, that is a good question. May I humbly share my thoughts?

I believe that Dharma organizations and centers are set up for the students by our kind Gurus. However, for it to be sustainable and grow, the students have to start managing and operating these organizations. Eventually, it reaches a stage where the centers are set up for Dharma students by Dharma students.

We are all far from being enlightened and we are living in an ever more potent samsara (as HoneyDakini pointed in her thread titled: An emanation of wisdom and counter to the selfish mind). Additionally, we may even have the negative karma to break Guru samaya! Therefore, sometimes some students may not be able to do as their Guru request.

This is very sad and I used to wonder: “how can this happen when someone is so close to the Dharma?”. With the patient and kind explanation from my Dharma brothers and sisters above, I am coming to term with this while continuing to work hard to overcome my shortcomings and do my best to keep clean Guru samaya.

I hope my sharing brought value and still excited to hear HoneyDakini’s respond.

[DharmaDefender]

Hi HoneyD,

I'm just curious - if the students within a Dharma organisation are criticising other lamas or being political, wouldn't the Guru tell them to stop? Or do you think the Guru would tell them to stop but the students don't listen, though I am rather skeptical of this premise, because the Tibetan tradition emphasises so much on the Guru-student relationship that I don't think the students would so openly disobey.

Actually, when you say that it is not the centre or organisation but the students, wouldn't the students make up the organisation or the centre?

I don't think the guru would have to tell the students to stop, if the students were following their vows properly. Just saying because I find the whole situation a little ironic sometimes - why even take a guru, when your actions demonstrate that you believe you know better than the guru.

The students make up the organisation but some people shout louder than others, I guess. My stance still stands that it's the bad apples who spoil things for everyone. And when those bad apples affect well-meaning students and cause them to leave, those students leave hurt and angry. And then they start speaking openly and criticising...so directly and indirectly, the bad apples destroy the Dharma, by:

1) creating the causes for others to be away from the Dharma thereby
2) creating the causes for themselves to be away from the Dharma - after all, how Dharmic are their actions already? If their actions are already un-Dharmic, then they are already away from the Dharma

Funny eh, how things work out!

[hope rainbow]

Does anyone know of the whereabouts of the current incarnation of Geshe Rabten?

[Losang_Tenpa]

Switzerland

[Mana]

Rabten Tulku Rinpoche
     
 
When Geshe passed away in 1986, his pupils were able to experience the extraordinary signs of a complete master passing away. During the months after his death, many students had the feeling that during their meditation Geshe was unusually close to them. Three years later, Gonsar Rinpoche, Geshe’s dearest and closest pupil discovered Geshe's incarnation, who, through various unconnected sources, amongst whom was the Dalai Lama, was confirmed to be the righteous incarnation.

In the spring of 1998 the ten year old Rabten Rinpoche gave his first teaching in front of a group of two hundred people in the monastery Rabten Choeling at the lake of Geneva. Unexpectedly and unprepared the young Rinpoche gave people advice on taking refuge. He spoke in the clear manner and way of impressing people, which had been Geshe Rabten’s own special way. The listeners were deeply moved and many of Geshe Rabten's former students had tears in their eyes.

The memory of Geshe through his incarnation, who even in his young years already showed clear traits of a great master makes one believe that there is nothing more precious that could be given to one in this life even if one were to meet the enlightened Buddha in person.
 
source: http://www.rabten.at/RabtenRinpoche_CHen.htm

**************************

Something interesting to note. This current incarnation of Geshe Rabten was recognized by both the 14th Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden.

Current Rabten Rinpoche resides and studies with Most Ven. Gonsar Rinpoche in Switzerland. Previous Geshe Rabten and the current incarnation are strong practitioners of Dorje Shugden as is Gonsar Rinpoche till this day. Gonsar Rinpoche and Rabten Rinpoche no longer attend any of Dalai Lama's gatherings as they are not allowed to due to not renouncing Dorje Shugden.

The Dalai Lama had very close relations with Geshe Rabten knowing of Geshe Rabten's strong practice of Shugden. All changed when the ban took place.

The previous Geshe Rabten was a student of Trijang Rinpoche and highly devoted.



Photos

Rabten Rinpoche
Geshe Rabten with Dalai Lama
Geshe Rabten, Dalai Lama and Gonsar Rinpoche
Geshe Rabten with his illustrious master Trijang Dorje Chang
Gonsar Rinpoche
Dalai Lama recognizing the young Rabten Rinpoche before the ban
Geshe Rabten assisting Trijang Dorje Chang
Young current Trijang Rinpoche meeting the young Rabten Rinpoche

 

[WisdomBeing]

Thank you for sharing this information about Geshe Rabten.

I think it is interesting that Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition (FPMT) has a page on Geshe Rabten on their website as one of Lama Zopa's teachers though he was renowned as a Shugden practitioner. Why would FPMT want to acknowledge a Shugden lama as one of Lama Zopa's teachers? Shouldn't they hush it up?

Here is the information on Geshe Rabten's previous life as posted on FPMT's website:

http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/493-rabten.html
 
Geshe Rabten Rinpoche (1920-1986)

Geshe Rabten was born in Tibet in 1920. He spent twenty years first studying and then teaching at Sera Monastic University in Lhasa, until his exile in 1959. Upon completion of his training in India he was appointed as a religious assistant to the Dalai Lama. He also spent many years in solitary retreat, and wrote the book Song of the Profound View about his meditation experiences.

Since 1969, Geshe Rabten instructed Western students on Tibetan Buddhism. He was one of the first Tibetan Buddhist masters to give teachings in the West, and was one of the principle gurus of Lama Thubten Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche. He founded Tharpa Choeling Center for Higher Buddhist Studies in Switzerland in 1979 and resided there as a full-time spiritual director before he passed away in 1986.