Dagom Rinpoche's re-incarnation

[DSFriend]

Did i hear right when Admin said he has been poisoned ? 

The Tibetans in Nepal mentioned this over and over. Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche was slowly poisoned. They had Tibetan spies posted outside of Rinpoche's ladrang always to watch activities. It is happening now also. When the poison finally took hold, Rinpoche was trying to fly out of Nepla via Bangkok, and was very ill in Bangkok and could not proceed out to Switzerland for treatment and passed in Bangkok.

The rumours are unconfirmed. But this website has been informed of the information. The information is not necessarily the view of this website, but it is sharing with other practitioners such a threat is there.

Another view is that Rinpoche passed away of stomach cancer in bangkok on the way to Switzerland.

But the attempt to harm the lamas of the Dorje Shugden lineage is a fact by the TGIE.

Mana

  So sad....may his precious reincarnation double his past activites.

Yes. May it be so! May Dagom Rinpoche receive all necessary resources to again continue his most beneficial works..

[DharmaDefender]

The lengths some people will go to in order to stop Dorje Shugden practice sends shivers up my spine. Even HH Trijang Rinpoche is not spared. I was very struck by what he said in his radio interview:

"It is very clear my life might be in danger. So I have decided to leave my Labrang and disrobe, so that none of the Shugden worshippers can ask me to be their leader. I hope that this way I can respect the wishes of the Dalai Lama and still revere the protector, practicing in private and far from everyone. I intend to follow a middle way, neither for nor against Shugden. I appeal to both parties not to contact me.

In my own Labrang I have recently witnessed a kind of factionalism and I have discovered that one person in particular was planning an evil conspiracy. This plan was to murder my assistant, Tharchin, and to implicate His Holiness’s government in exile with this odious crime. The conspirator aimed to become chakzoe [manager] of my estate. Tharchin has been very kind to me, more so than my own parents, and has taken care of me since I was three years old. As well as managing the affairs of my Labrang.

With my own ears I heard this person discussing on the telephone a plan to assassinate Tharchin. It is really a matter of great sadness and surprise, especially since the person involved in this ploy has been very close to me as well. If he succeeds in his plan, it would be a cause of great trouble for the Labrang, as well as a cause of disgrace to the Tibetan government and His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

These are not lies, but true facts which I want everyone to know. That is why I made this statement.”

I extracted this from http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090.

It is so sad that people will harm Lamas - I cannot imagine what is their motivation

Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.

[WisdomBeing]

Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.

DharmaD,

Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.

Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.

Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.

[DharmaDefender]

Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.

DharmaD,

Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.

Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.

Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.

I think it's ALL of the seven cardinal sins actually, especially if it's our (heaven forbid) guru. Because our guru is the Buddha and enlightened, more precious than our mother and father, he/she is our Dharma teacher, a precept master and doing so would disrupt the harmony of the sangha.

Okay, enough terrible talk.

I think one reason why creating schism in the sangha leads to terrible consequences is because of how wrong view is inherent to the act. For me, wrong view is one of the most difficult things to get rid of. And once we have such a view, we continue to commit negative acts again and again...the karma just continues to build, because our view affects everything we do.

So from wrong view, we create schism. And from creating schism, we create wrong view - watching monks and nuns argue against one another, and us adding fuel to the fire, isn't the way to promote Buddha's teachings. Doing so drives us away from the Dharma, so we don't even have the chance to learn the teachings that will help stop us from creating even more schism!

Sorry if that was a bit muddled, clearly I'm not at my most eloquent today.

[WisdomBeing]

DharmaD,

Yes of course it would be the ultimate sin - to harm our Guru but what i thought was particularly important was that the cardinal sins mention an Arhat, a Dharma Teacher, a Precept Master - thus implying any Dharma Teacher, Arhat, Precept Master.

I remember awhile back, I met a monk who told me that we could not talk badly about other monks. I asked what if the other monk was wrong. The reply was that regardless of if the monk was right or wrong, if we spoke badly, it would be schism. I couldn't understand it then, thinking that it was wrong for the monk to keep quiet and allow the other monk to get away with it. The reason i was given was that nobody gets away with it because of karma. 

[Vajraprotector]

Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.

DharmaD,
Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.

Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.

Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.

I think not many people is capable of/ dare to shed the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, kill one's father, kill one's mother, murder a Dharma Teacher, murder a Precept Master, but disrupting the harmony of the Sangha is definitely possible, which might seem "light" in comparison with the crimes mentioned above.

There are many practitioners who criticises various lamas/ Gurus and traditions- online and offline. I find it absurd for people who criticise another tradition and lineage, because:

a)  it reflects badly on their own tradition, and I wonder how much do they really know about the other traditions since they have not spent much time studying them

b) there are other attained masters from other traditions and lineages, so it proves that those traditions /lineages are valid

c) why do people spent so much time criticising others when they can use their time to study and practice the Dharma instead?

I also think that culprits who fanned the flames (with accusations especially) are accountable to cause 'ignorant' people to take actions and harm the Sangha - discrimination, death threats, actual harm and so on.

[WisdomBeing]

I think not many people is capable of/ dare to shed the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, kill one's father, kill one's mother, murder a Dharma Teacher, murder a Precept Master, but disrupting the harmony of the Sangha is definitely possible, which might seem "light" in comparison with the crimes mentioned above.

There are many practitioners who criticises various lamas/ Gurus and traditions- online and offline. I find it absurd for people who criticise another tradition and lineage, because:

a)  it reflects badly on their own tradition, and I wonder how much do they really know about the other traditions since they have not spent much time studying them

b) there are other attained masters from other traditions and lineages, so it proves that those traditions /lineages are valid

c) why do people spent so much time criticising others when they can use their time to study and practice the Dharma instead?

I also think that culprits who fanned the flames (with accusations especially) are accountable to cause 'ignorant' people to take actions and harm the Sangha - discrimination, death threats, actual harm and so on.

Dear VajraP,

You're right that most people would not spill blood but happy to stir rumours and gossip to create schism in the Sangha.

I think it's a good test of self-awareness to see whether we ourselves ever criticise the Sangha. I've always thought that as a lay person, I have no right to criticise the Sangha because I don't have perfect view and would not know if what I perceived was right or wrong. Also I don't hold vows while the Sangha do - what right do I have to criticise them.

In the Dorje Shugden community, it is even more dangerous to spread rumours - if people do not take responsibility for their own speech or actions, they can directly cause schism or harm to the Sangha, by which time it'd be too late to regret.

[Vajraprotector]

Thank you WB for sharing your view. I have met many who have the holier-than-thou approach if they are in the Buddhist circle for a while. I remember feeling intimidated (perhaps a more suitable word is dejected) with these type of "Buddhist practitioners" that are out there.

And "for your benefit" they will criticise this sangha, that sangha, compare Lamas (they ALREADY have their own Gurus, why do they need to compare?), compare centres, criticise lamas etc.

I would like to share something interesting I overheard from a senior practitioner, that there is no need to compare/ criticise lamas (either your own Guru or other Gurus) for those who already has a Guru. It's as if you are comparing your wives/ husbands with other people's wives/ husbands. If you have already chosen one, stick with it.

Ok back to the topic,  I do hope they officially recognise Dagom Rinpoche's new incarnation soon. I am sure Rinpoche is back, but perhaps is being prepared for formal monastic education? Nowadays with the political climate, perhaps it's dangerous to recognise incarnation of lamas connected to Shugden.

[WisdomBeing]

Thank you WB for sharing your view. I have met many who have the holier-than-thou approach if they are in the Buddhist circle for a while. I remember feeling intimidated (perhaps a more suitable word is dejected) with these type of "Buddhist practitioners" that are out there.

And "for your benefit" they will criticise this sangha, that sangha, compare Lamas (they ALREADY have their own Gurus, why do they need to compare?), compare centres, criticise lamas etc.

I would like to share something interesting I overheard from a senior practitioner, that there is no need to compare/ criticise lamas (either your own Guru or other Gurus) for those who already has a Guru. It's as if you are comparing your wives/ husbands with other people's wives/ husbands. If you have already chosen one, stick with it.

Ok back to the topic,  I do hope they officially recognise Dagom Rinpoche's new incarnation soon. I am sure Rinpoche is back, but perhaps is being prepared for formal monastic education? Nowadays with the political climate, perhaps it's dangerous to recognise incarnation of lamas connected to Shugden.

Thanks for the husband/wife analogy.. nice one

I'm sure Dagom Rinpoche is being prepared for his future role now by his devoted students. While it is dangerous for lamas connected to Shugden, i admire them very much for they are willing to risk their lives for their practice.

I still go by my personal belief that we should not criticise any Lama, whether shugden practitioner or not, secret practitioner or not. People who can happily practice in the freedom of their countries cannot even imagine what it must be like to be under threat of their lives. Of course others may say that if these Lamas are attained beings, no one can harm them, but i believe that it is not whether they can be harmed but whether we create the causes for them to be harmed.

[hope rainbow]

(from HD)
I still go by my personal belief that we should not criticise any Lama, whether shugden practitioner or not, secret practitioner or not. People who can happily practice in the freedom of their countries cannot even imagine what it must be like to be under threat of their lives. Of course others may say that if these Lamas are attained beings, no one can harm them, but i believe that it is not whether they can be harmed but whether we create the causes for them to be harmed.

I believe that a Lama's actions are motivated by pure and sincere compassion and are aimed at helping their students to progress on the spiritual path,
by criticizing our own Lama, we undermine our progress,
by criticizing our own Lama or any other Lama, we compromise the devotion of his students and put them at risk of regression.

By logical thinking:
1. An enlightened being would not engage in actions that have for effect to take peple away from their spiritual path,this would be contradictory to their enlightened nature.
2. Hence, if someone's talk is taking people off their spiritual path (ex: by criticizig one's Lama with the consquece of Dharma regression), that talk couldn't possible be an enlightened speech.
3. Therefore, such talk is not reliable.

[hope rainbow]

Furthermore, what kind of karma are we inflicting to ourselves by criticizing high Lamas?
Not pretty, that is for sure...

[Big Uncle]

Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche is clearly a Tulku of the highest of spiritual attainments. So there are many emanations of his in all the '3000 worlds' or so out there. As far as I know, when a high-level Tulku passes on, he usually would take rebirth up to 5 main emanations. They namely body, speech, mind, qualities and activities. However, between the 5, the mind emanation is the main emanation that the disciples will be looking for. Therefore, I do hope that our merits is high enough for us to have the good fortune to have the actual mind emanation of Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche to be safely recognised, enthroned and the prayers of his previous lives come to fruition!

Big Uncle

[Helena]

Dear all,

All your discussions and personal views have truly enriched me.

What a great way to start the day!

This Forum does not only feed the spirit, but also the mind. And that is the most important thing.

Dharma should improve us and make us better people. There should always be a real shift in the way we think and how we behave. We cannot possibly remain the same.

May we always have the good fortune to meet High Lamas and meet our teachers life after life.

May we never be spiritually orphaned or spiritually homeless.

Our spiritual path can only be expedited with a spiritual guide.

Thank you all for such wonderful sharing.

[thor]

Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.

DharmaD,

Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.

Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.

Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.

Ever wonder why one of the 7 sins is "shedding the buddha's blood" and not "killing a Buddha"? Cos its not possible to kill a Buddha, they do not have the karma to be killed! So then how is it that Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche came to be murdered, many say poisoned? Along those lines, how is it that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was suffocated to death? Seeing them as Buddhas, and of course I see Lama Dagom Rinpoche as a perfect Buddha, i can only conclude that they allowed it to happen. Otherwise it would not be 'possible' in the conventional sense to kill them.

Song Rinpoche was sleeping with his back to the wall, close to a window. An assailant crept up to the window, stuck his arm through and was about to stab Song Dorjechang in the heart when he opened his eyes and grabbed the would be murderer's arm, preventing a huge disaster.

And I have heard this tale before although I cannot find the source right now: Dalai Lama was going to give a public teaching when he suddenly stopped stared at a man in the audience, repeatedly asking "Who are you?" "What do you want?" Security immediately stopped and searched the man, finding weapons on his person, intended to injure Dalai Lama.

In the water-mouse year, when the Chinese troops had already entered Tibet , the Tibetan Government decided to do some religious service for the peace and safety of the nation. With the instruction from His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Je Phaphongkha gave the transmission Kagyur in the Gaden Hall. Soon after that teaching, he was so seriously ill that he almost passed away. The sickness was due to certain poison. When he recovered, his whole body had become bluish.


Think about it.
Do they have clairvoyance? Yes
Do they have the karma to be killed? No
Do they have control over death and rebirth? Yes
Do we have the karma for them to remain? Depends....

Perhaps it was time for Dagom Rinpoche to leave. Perhaps it was more beneficial for him to have an early death, and for his reincarnation to come back sooner to reestablish himself again. His reincarnation is back (YES) and has been found (YES). Dagom Labrang in Kathmandu is staying low-key to avoid the gaze of TGIE and changzo-la is keeping things under tight wraps for now. But his return is yet another thorn up TGIE's **** -  yet another Shugden lama reincarnating with control.

[Helena]

Dear Duldzin,

You write the most riveting comments that truly challenge the mind to think more. Thank you so so much.

I especially identified with what you wrote here:-

Think about it.
Do they have clairvoyance? Yes
Do they have the karma to be killed? No
Do they have control over death and rebirth? Yes
Do we have the karma for them to remain? Depends....

Perhaps it was time for Dagom Rinpoche to leave. Perhaps it was more beneficial for him to have an early death, and for his reincarnation to come back sooner to reestablish himself again. His reincarnation is back (YES) and has been found (YES). Dagom Labrang in Kathmandu is staying low-key to avoid the gaze of TGIE and changzo-la is keeping things under tight wraps for now. But his return is yet another thorn up TGIE's **** -  yet another Shugden lama reincarnating with control.

It truly got me thinking that nothing highly attained Lamas do are by accident or it is a coincident.
In this respect, nothing is also beyond their control.
They already know what is going to happen and have been planting the causes for certain things to take place in order to best benefit all sentient beings.
With this in mind, then what they choose to do is very intentional and planned. And their only motivation is to help and benefit others.
Sometimes, we just can't see and understand what they are doing because we can only relate to it from our worldly perspective and limited mindset.

It is indeed very encouraging to see that all of these high Lamas who practice Dorje Shugden are returning.
We are not all left alone and to fend for ourselves.

This gives me a lot of hope and joy.

Thank you.