Dagom Rinpoche's re-incarnation

[DharmaDefender]

Ever wonder why one of the 7 sins is "shedding the buddha's blood" and not "killing a Buddha"? Cos its not possible to kill a Buddha, they do not have the karma to be killed! So then how is it that Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche came to be murdered, many say poisoned? Along those lines, how is it that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was suffocated to death? Seeing them as Buddhas, and of course I see Lama Dagom Rinpoche as a perfect Buddha, i can only conclude that they allowed it to happen. Otherwise it would not be 'possible' in the conventional sense to kill them.

Song Rinpoche was sleeping with his back to the wall, close to a window. An assailant crept up to the window, stuck his arm through and was about to stab Song Dorjechang in the heart when he opened his eyes and grabbed the would be murderer's arm, preventing a huge disaster.

And I have heard this tale before although I cannot find the source right now: Dalai Lama was going to give a public teaching when he suddenly stopped stared at a man in the audience, repeatedly asking "Who are you?" "What do you want?" Security immediately stopped and searched the man, finding weapons on his person, intended to injure Dalai Lama.

In the water-mouse year, when the Chinese troops had already entered Tibet , the Tibetan Government decided to do some religious service for the peace and safety of the nation. With the instruction from His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Je Phaphongkha gave the transmission Kagyur in the Gaden Hall. Soon after that teaching, he was so seriously ill that he almost passed away. The sickness was due to certain poison. When he recovered, his whole body had become bluish.


Think about it.
Do they have clairvoyance? Yes
Do they have the karma to be killed? No
Do they have control over death and rebirth? Yes
Do we have the karma for them to remain? Depends....

Perhaps it was time for Dagom Rinpoche to leave. Perhaps it was more beneficial for him to have an early death, and for his reincarnation to come back sooner to reestablish himself again. His reincarnation is back (YES) and has been found (YES). Dagom Labrang in Kathmandu is staying low-key to avoid the gaze of TGIE and changzo-la is keeping things under tight wraps for now. But his return is yet another thorn up TGIE's **** -  yet another Shugden lama reincarnating with control.

In Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen's case, he definitely allowed it to happen - he even gave his assassins the method to kill him! He literally gave his life for the dharma...how many of us could say we would willingly allow someone else to kill us, for the sake of fulfilling a promise?

In support of your comment on Dagom Rinpoche, I read somewhere - the source escapes me - that Dagom Rinpoche chose to enter clear light now so that when the ban is over, he will be in a position to spread the Dharma again in a big way, meaning he will be old and learned enough. By that time, all of the old hawks of the TGIE will be too old to do anything! I don't know why they fight and fight to hold on to their power...death is the greatest equaliser.

[hope rainbow]

Why?
Why?
Why?

Even 'IF' I was to 'appear' to disagree with a Spiritual Teacher, why would I hurt, harm and destroy?
How could that be in line with ANY spiritual practice? It can't, I don't see how it could...
It even turns my stomach to speak of it.

The fact is: a genuine spiritual teacher talks of compassion and wisdom.
This is a common thread amongst all religions, let alone amongst buddhists of the different schools, let alone of the same school!
SO WHERE IS THE CONFLICT??? DUUHHH!!!

[WisdomBeing]

Why?
Why?
Why?

Even 'IF' I was to 'appear' to disagree with a Spiritual Teacher, why would I hurt, harm and destroy?
How could that be in line with ANY spiritual practice? It can't, I don't see how it could...
It even turns my stomach to speak of it.

The fact is: a genuine spiritual teacher talks of compassion and wisdom.
This is a common thread amongst all religions, let alone amongst buddhists of the different schools, let alone of the same school!
SO WHERE IS THE CONFLICT??? DUUHHH!!!

Dear Hope,

I fully agree with you. Why would anyone want to harm a spiritual teacher? The karma is so incredibly heavy and most Buddhists should know that. I really don't get it that some 'practitioners' will kick the spiritual teacher off the throne and put their egos on the throne instead.

We should all remind ourselves by reading:
1. the Nine attitudes of Guru Devotion (http://www.tonglen.oceandrop.org/9_Attitudes_Guru_Devotion.htm)
2. The 50 Stanzas of Guru Devotion http://www.bodhicitta.net/FIFTY%20STANZAS%20OF%20GURU%20DEVOTION.htm 

Even if someone is not our personal Guru but he or she is a spiritual teacher, we should respect them as they are members of the Sangha. How can we take refuge in the Three Jewels then be nasty to Sangha? It doesn't make sense.

[hope rainbow]

HD,
I'd like to add this:
the way we treat our guru (that is with devotion, selflessly -without worldly concerns) is a training for us -iceberg of selfishness- to behave in ways that benefit otehrs, that is, to be precise, we learn with our guru how to treat ALL BEINGS LIKE WE TREAT OUR GURU.
Hence, being devoted to our guru and bashing someone else's guru (or any living being for that matter) is equal to bashing our own guru...
We should think about that!

[WisdomBeing]

i read that we first learn to treat our Guru with utmost respect and gratitude. Once we can do that well and automatically, we then learn to treat our Guru's attendants and students with the same respect, and then it spreads to more and more people. If we cannot even behave ourselves well in front of our Guru (i.e. according to the 50 stanzas of Guru Devotion), how will we even hope to act well in front of others? The 50 Stanzas are a simple practice of awareness of our body, speech and mind.

Re what Hope R said :

being devoted to our guru and bashing someone else's guru (or any living being for that matter) is equal to bashing our own guru...

I think that if we have a negative attitude to others' Gurus, it reflects badly on our own Guru, which will turn people away from our guru. Potential students will think - I don't think this Guru is so great - look at his students!

In that way, we bring down our Guru as well as potentially turning students away from the Dharma. They may think, i don't want to be a Buddhist - look at those Buddhists! They are saying such bad things about that teacher!

I've not read anywhere that says it's a good thing to say negative things about any Dharma teacher. Have you?

[beggar]

I had a very good fortune to receive a special explanation from my kind teacher yesterday. It was about this guru tree: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/gurutree.htm

I did not know this but I learnt that it was created based upon the teachings that Dagom Rinpoche (previous incarnation) gave about our lineage, and he added dorje shugden into the guru tree. HOW FORTUNATE WE ARE TO SEE THIS.

When I checked back on the photo today, I also remembered there is very nice explanation to accompany the picture also, based on teachings from Dagom Rinpoche.

Now, can we be worthy reflections of this entire tree and every being on it?

thank you, yours, beggar

[WisdomBeing]

Beggar - thanks for the link to the 'updated' Guru Tree. I was wondering that when the practice was accepted by the 5th Dalai Lama, did they not included Dorje Shugden on the Guru tree then? Or was it only when Dagom Rinpoche updated this Guru tree? Do you know when this thangka was made - before or during the ban by HH Dalai Lama? It's very exciting to see it. I'm asking because I'm curious if this version of the Guru Tree (i love it!) was openly accepted at any time.

[honeydakini]

Hey thanks beggar for this nice morsel of enlightened sharing!

Is it the case that Dorje Shugden was "added" into the thangka after Dagom Rinpoche's teachings? Or more that he was actually taken out recently, following all the politics and stuff? I should imagine that it would be more common to find, historically, more Guru trees WITH dorje shugden since he was so central to the lineage

[Helena]

I am deeply indebted to Masters like Dagom Rinpoche who stood up and corrected the Guru Tree to reflect the truth. Without High Lamas like Dagom Rinpoche constantly correcting the depiction of Dharma, we will never know the true lineage and history. We will not know how we came to be. From the 5 lineages of Gelugpa to Lord Tsongkhapa, to everything that is within the Guru Tree and the significance of those outside of the Guru Tree. Finally, to where we are at this point in time, as depicted at the lower right hand corner - receiving teachings from our own Gurus and Lamas.

Everything in the thangka has so much meaning. I did not quite appreciate it until recently. In fact, one needs to only look at this Guru Tree and we will learn a great deal.

Without method/practice there can be no attainments as depicted in the left hand with Maitreya in the middle.

Without Wisdom, all methods/practice could be wrong and mis-guided, as depicted in the right hand with Manjushri in the middle.

Method and Wisdom go hand in hand.

Without the Lineage Masters, nothing can be propagated and passed on - the lineage and teachings will cease to exist.

Withiout the Yidams and Dharma Protectors, how will we get help to stay on the path and be on the express route to Enligthenment.

Anything outside the Guru Tree are Deities and Spirits which are not enlightened. Hence, we should not be worshipping any of them.

Everything comes from a source and that source is traceable and authentic.

This is why the existence of Dorje Shugden in this Guru Tree is extremely important.

[hope rainbow]

I had a very good fortune to receive a special explanation from my kind teacher yesterday. It was about this guru tree: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/gurutree.htm

I did not know this but I learnt that it was created based upon the teachings that Dagom Rinpoche (previous incarnation) gave about our lineage, and he added dorje shugden into the guru tree. HOW FORTUNATE WE ARE TO SEE THIS.

When I checked back on the photo today, I also remembered there is very nice explanation to accompany the picture also, based on teachings from Dagom Rinpoche.

Now, can we be worthy reflections of this entire tree and every being on it?

thank you, yours, beggar

You are very fortunate to receive such teachings, and from a qualified master as seems to be the case!
This is the renaissance of buddhisme in action.

[DSFriend]

HD,
I'd like to add this:
the way we treat our guru (that is with devotion, selflessly -without worldly concerns) is a training for us -iceberg of selfishness- to behave in ways that benefit otehrs, that is, to be precise, we learn with our guru how to treat ALL BEINGS LIKE WE TREAT OUR GURU.
Hence, being devoted to our guru and bashing someone else's guru (or any living being for that matter) is equal to bashing our own guru...
We should think about that!

Which lama teaches his or her students to critisize? I have not come across any! May we out of devotion to our own teacher, conduct ourselves worthy of our teachers

[Vajraprotector]

As I research more on the high lamas that are supporters of Dorje Shugden or that used to practice Dorje Shugden openly, I notice that there is a pattern of EXCELLENCE in all their actions.
Excellence in their teachings and in their compassion.
Here is another example with Dagom Rinpoche, a stable practitioner of Dorje Shugden, and who's life is clearly led with bodhicitta.

I read on Wikipedia that he passed into paranirvana in 2007.
Yet, does anyone here knows if a re-incarnation has been found and confirmed?

Hi Hope Rainbow,

To answer your original question, there was a thread in 2009 that mentioned Kyabje Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche has taken rebirth in Mongolia as predicted by the oracle. For sure Kyabje Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche has been found and confirmed, but like all other Shugden lamas, I think perhaps it's still not a suitable time to reveal their whereabouts in case of death threats and all. Also, it's still a long time to go before Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche can start teaching again as Rinpoche is still very young.

Link: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=424.0

[WisdomBeing]

Hi Hope Rainbow,

To answer your original question, there was a thread in 2009 that mentioned Kyabje Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche has taken rebirth in Mongolia as predicted by the oracle. For sure Kyabje Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche has been found and confirmed, but like all other Shugden lamas, I think perhaps it's still not a suitable time to reveal their whereabouts in case of death threats and all. Also, it's still a long time to go before Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche can start teaching again as Rinpoche is still very young.

Link: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=424.0

Sad to say, the death threats are very real. I have heard from authentic sources - people who have directly experienced it - that there have been attempts on Shugden Lama's lives. While some might argue that surely since they are highly attained, that they cannot be harmed. I do believe that is true with the exception to the rule being that should their samaya with their students be broken, that would create the causes for them to be 'harmed'. If that happens, these lamas may choose to pass into clear light in order to manifest in another incarnation in another location where he/she would be able to be more beneficial.

[DSFriend]

HD,
I'd like to add this:
the way we treat our guru (that is with devotion, selflessly -without worldly concerns) is a training for us -iceberg of selfishness- to behave in ways that benefit otehrs, that is, to be precise, we learn with our guru how to treat ALL BEINGS LIKE WE TREAT OUR GURU.
Hence, being devoted to our guru and bashing someone else's guru (or any living being for that matter) is equal to bashing our own guru...
We should think about that!

If people see their gurus as one in nature with Buddha, then for sure people will refrain from talking bad about other gurus. It is said that a guru is even kinder that the Buddhas for the obvious reasons that the guru is the one who puts up with us, scold, advice, give gifts and teachings etc,.If we view our guru in this manner, then other gurus/lamas who turn the wheel of dharma is just as kind. If this is the case, then what rights do we have to talk bad about any gurus.

[shugdenpromoter]

Sad to say, the death threats are very real. I have heard from authentic sources - people who have directly experienced it - that there have been attempts on Shugden Lama's lives. While some might argue that surely since they are highly attained, that they cannot be harmed. I do believe that is true with the exception to the rule being that should their samaya with their students be broken, that would create the causes for them to be 'harmed'. If that happens, these lamas may choose to pass into clear light in order to manifest in another incarnation in another location where he/she would be able to be more beneficial.

Yes, High Lama definitely can control their death and rebirth. Look at the news on the new incarnation of Dagom Rinpoche, Denma Gonsar Rinpoche & Kensur Lobsang Tharchin. In whatever method the high lama uses is always to benefit others more and the timing is also important for the spread of Dharma.  And some lama will use their body ie death, sickness & etc to give teaching to their students.

I'm not surprise about the death threats. It has been reported from a few reliable sources that with DS High Lama, the TGIE government always send spies to report the movement of their Ladrang in Nepal and India. For example whenever Gangchen Rinpoche visits Nepal, there will always be TGIE spies outside his Ladrang. Therefore, the security is extremely tight when Gangchen Rinpoche is in Nepal. The same with the movement of Pabongka Rinpoche & all the rest of the DS Lama.