regarding TULKUS

[passingby]

Dear Chatrengpa,

good point, but does that mean all 14 Dalai Lamas are going against Lama Tsongkhapa's order/wish?

[beggar]

hello!
i received this note from 'a friend' in my personal messages, and backwards as i am, have found myself unable to send off my response. So i thought, this is material for interesting discussion anyway - let's put it on the general forum... hope it works!

Hi beggar,

Since you are the global moderator I would like some advice from you.

This website is so extraordinary, and I was so happy because the participants seemed considerate and trying not to be caught so much in the 8 worldly dharmas ... and then, this cruel attack on Alexis. Could you send some advice as global moderator? I wish to be impartial but being a member it will never "sound" impartial. Could you please help?

Thank you so very much

a friend

(here for your reference 'a friend's very interesting post in our guestbook:
Dear friends,

First of all let me greet you all on this day of the coming of Lord Buddha from Ganden Paradise to our world. Secondly, let me tell you that it's been quite awhile that I've been observing this website and it's not without hesitations that I decided to send you a message. May be it's the influence of this most holy day that decided me and, friends in Dharma, please don't be hurt by what I might express here even if it sounds harsh. It's my love for sentient beings and utter devotion to the teachings that force me to write.
Of course, this website is very dear and beautiful, since it contains so many images of our holy King Protector, and so many words that are intended for his praise. I thank you from my heart he/she/they, whoever it is that is doing it, and also those who send messages of support.
Nevertheless, there is in this website an element of wrong view that doesn't in any way serve the holy Dharma nor shows any respect towards the Buddhas in general nor towards our Je Rinpoche nor towards the Protector of his teachings. It doesn't show respect, neither, for the Dalai Lama, contrary to the expressed intentions of the writers, because it perverts entirely the wishes and purposes that he has so clearly expressed and maintained year after year. It doesn't show respect towards the unknown number of victims of the religious persecution unleashed by the Dalai Lama against his fellow citizens, victims whose destiny is either ignored or treated with an extraordinary frivolity. I say frivolity lacking a better word. How to call the behaviour that you show, of praising the one who started years ago such incredible actions against our Deity, our Teachings, our fellow practitioners and to this day doesn't relent but continues such actions? When you praise the Dalai Lama in his actions against the Protector's practitioners, using the reason of skillful means, I don't think you understand the meaning of skillful means. Friends, it is true that the Buddhas can take the appearance of anything, including demons, to benefit sentient beings but when they do it, they never play a double game, they never do something conventionally wrong and at the same time proclaim, or make people to proclaim or even suspect that they are Buddhas, they never show their colours, otherwise they would be destroying the very skillful means they are using. Let's use the example of Devadatta, mentioned in your website. It is a view that I heard mentioning by worthy people, that the evil cousin of Lord Buddha was a somehow realized being that was playing a role to serve the purposes of the Buddha. But you can go and try finding one single piece of scripture or utterance of a Lama saying that what Devadatta did was good, or skillful, or wise. What Devadatta did was horrible and nobody that I know of is going to praise him for his actions. Lord Buddha said he loved Devadatta as much as he loved his own son, but he never said a word of praise, never. Are we more intelligent and wise than the Buddha?
But let's be simple, let's not complicate matters. What you are doing in your website, of praising the Dalai Lama for his actions, interpreting that they are skillful means to spread the Dharma –not less!– is a lokta, a wrong view in relation to the Buddha and to all the Buddhas. Because, friends, what is the main and foremost thing that the Buddhas do for us? They cannot take our bad karma with their holy hands and make it disappear, they cannot do that. Instead, they teach us what to keep and what to abandon. What to do and what not to do. So, friends, if you go about proclaiming that what is wrong is in reality good because it is skillful means, you are attacking, destroying the compassionate actions of our Buddhas. Please, do not do that. For your sake and for the sake of those who are going to acquire such wrong view.
Of course, it is an almost unbearable pain to see the one who we used to contemplate as the beacon of Dharma, we poor Westerners who put our faith there, we poor Tibetans who worshipped our leader, do things that are not in accord with Dharma. It is terribly painful. Awful. And it feels good to find justifications, it helps soothe our pain. But that is not the way to go about it.
The way to go about it is not to judge the person, the Dalai Lama. We have to be very clear about his actions, but even mentally we have to remain silent about him. Friends, only the Buddha is able to judge a person, and this is true both for the positive and the negative. You cannot condemn him, but neither can you justify him, otherwise you would be proclaiming yourselves a Buddha.
Also, if we suffered from his actions, we have our most holy teachings of Lojong, and we can remember our Geshe Langri Tangpa and say of the Dalai Lama, he is my utmost Mahayana teacher, because he is teaching me by this suffering he inflicts on me, that I did the same to others in the past. And because he is thus helping me to eliminate my bad karma. This Kadampa view is perfect, it doesn't judge the person, only the effects his actions have on me. And these I can choose, and I have a perfect instruction for choosing, the Lojong.
Enough. It's late, and I said already too many words. Thank you to those who had the patience for reading so far.
May your highest purpose become true, for the benefit of our beloved sentient beings, and may all things be good and happy and wonderful and perfect and joyous and you name it ... for all.
Sarva mangalam. )


dear friend,
one of the main points that what we try to promote here to our readers and ourselves (who are not enlightened) on this website is to promote harmony, independent investigation and avoiding extremes, which we hope very much will lead us and others to a deeper and valid practice based on refuge and mindfulness of karma with a mahayana attitude. I, as an example, am much less learned than you or alexis or david, and i can't quote many fine points from scripture. What i rely on more are pragmatic implications of views, concepts, teachings. If it leads to more determination to counter the self-cherishing mind, if it leads to a more constructive view of what arises, it's good as far as i'm concerned. For example, i personally resonate much more with what david wrote regarding tulkus, because i've experienced the immeasurable benefit they bring, and i would therefore emphasize the 'good' sides and see the system as inherently extremely beneficial, and so if i meet a tulku it is with the deepest respect for the many lives they have dedicated to benefiting sentient beings, rather than to think, is she real? Did he perhaps go off the track? Is she wearing a diamond ring a sign of attachment? And so on. The forums are filled with pencil kings who tear down the core of the vajrayana - guru devotion and holding commitments - by telling the world that titles mean nothing etc and voice their ego self-defenses by doubting everyone who sits on a teacher's chair on general principle in the name of 'checking the lama', but what's the gain? It's so obvious that they themselves want to sit on the throne but without doing the work, without giving up their lives.
My own teacher always says, tulkus with or without title can be measured by their ongoing practice of helping and guiding others, absorbing sufferings for others without any personal motivation and without hope for reward - so yes, titles are ultimately just titles, but do we focus on something's positive potential which opens doors, or the other way around? If a tulku is not stable, not up to the task, too young (in terms of reincarnations) to prevail in the world we live in, we will all notice soon enough and that's that and then our karma with that person's done and we get a chance to practice lojong and move on. If on the other hand, because a basically doubting mind predominates, we meet a precious teacher and because our practice of pure view and devotion is not strong, we go off thinking, I better wait till i meet an unmistaken living Buddha, there slams the door to dharma and it's very unlikely we'll meet another opportunity like that.
So, reading alexis letter we felt that's great ground for discussion and debate and encouraged it, and i'm really happy to see that people who are much more qualified than me responded with many points who made me think and contemplate and check against my practical experience, as the idea of this forum is not that we play god and tell everyone what's what, but to provide a platform for exchange of knowledge and experience.
Of course it would be great to have definite answers to every question, but i simply am not at that level, and i don't think many of us are, so it would be like saying, ultimately everything is dharmadatu - happy now? Therefore, views can not be separated from our practice, and even if someone can quote a thousand sutras and display lasersharp logic, but is devoid of compassion, will it help? To answer your question, i didn't perceive an attack on alexis, but a very sharp pointer which we can all apply to ourselves - are we hiding behind concepts, using scriptural reasoning to get our own point across, and so on? If not, even better, but always good to check. So thanks alexis AND david.
But let's stop a minute and look at the word 'attack.' In your letter in our guest book you pointed out our wrong view of calling HH the Dalai Lama's policy regarding Dorje Shugden as skillful means. Now if we adopt your point as it is it leads directly to the extreme view that His Holiness has failed us, betrayed us, is not compassionate, not wise, and of no benefit, because if it is true, in your point there is no room for any others. You are really attacking His Holiness and asking us to believe he has become a demon, much like others are attacking us about our dharmapala.
I can't help but quote a little myself here - "DON'T LOSE YOUR FAITH IN HIS HOLINESS; DON'T LOSE YOUR FAITH IN DORJE SHUGDEN." What Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang has said prophetically is really the content of this entire website in a nutshell. I need to ask you, how can you doubt that His Holiness is wonderful and holy when you can take one look and see how many thousands and millions he inspires, consoles, uplifts, leads to the Dharma? You would also be doubting what Dorje Shugden said so many times! Why would all-seeing dharmapala always call His Holiness the HOLDER OF THE WHITE LOTUS? Why would he say, Keep His Holiness in one hand and me in the other?
You may have suffered much due to His Holiness' (or rather the ones he has to please and pacify) policy, and many others have, and i'm not so advanced or cold just to say - Well that's your karma. But how many are benefiting from his teachings on compassion?

And i feel you yourself gave the answer in your letter, which is to apply the holy Lojong teachings. And, if there's any definite answer to anything, this is it. One word - Lojong. Or three words - Lamrim - Lojong - Mahamudra.

Thank you for reminding us, and a very good day to you.

yours, beggar

[Alexis]

Even though I will again face a wall of tomatoes, let me add this to the tulku debate,

One of my teachers, the late Geshe Khenrab, said in the 80s that the tulku system was now being more and more corrupt. He said it was not pure like before, like in old Tibet. He said 'tulkus' were more and more being selected according to political concerns rather than actual merit. It also seems nowadays, that a tulku title can be 'purchased' if you have the right tibetan connexion or familly backround. Large donators to monasteries's children get farther ahead in the pre-selection process. Steven Segal was recognized as a tulku after a one million dollars donation to Penor Rimpoche, this is just one extreme example but there several other smaller cases within tibetan families.

Also, many tulkus are being selected by methods involving a large amount of luck rather than a High lama's clearvoyance. I've had many, many MO's done for me and my familly. Some of these MO's were completely offtrack of just plainly wrong. If these MO's are wrong for some familly matters then they can also be wrong in choosing or confirming a Lama. Also, some Tulku are being selected by lotto...yes friends, by LOTTERY! Many of the Panchen Lamas have been selected by this Golden Urn concept. This is a system imposed by the manchu emporeror. It does not come from tibetans but its is widely used.

I also know of one case where an extremely high gelug tulku (like one of the top five or something like that!) had not been recognized because he had been reborn in the west BEFORE the fall of Tibet. Someone else has been recognized in his place and is now serving under that tulku's title and name. Ordinary people who 'believe' in the tulku system's infallibility prostrate to and serve that person thinking he is a high incarnate although he is not. The real incarnate is here in america and has not yet been recognized. There are many such stories in Tibet of missrecognization of tulku.

Finally, out of my own experience, I have met tulkus officially recognized by Dorje Shugden who have engaged in gross sexual missconduct, in endless lying and deceiving sentient beings, stealing community money from donation box, (that is, secretly taking donation box money without permission), etc, etc, etc,..........Yes friends, I have seen this with my eyes! Due to these actions, several person I know abandonned the Dharma and/or stoped practicing because they believed in the 'Tulkus', They though like me before that tulku were Avatars, that they ould not go wrong, like cheat, watch porn, getting angry and scream at disciple, in short, deceive disciples due to the eight worldyconcerns. We though, like david and Roland, that the tulku did not need to train again, to study, taking vows again and being mindfull of them. They DO! All lineage lamas said so.............ALL LINEAGE LAMAS SAID SO!

This is the source of my doubts on the Tulku system. This Tulku that has abused a community like this. I know he has already achieve enlightenment, but like the american tulku reborn in the west before the teachings existed here, he needs to actualise that state again in this new form because he has taken another form in the desire realm. His new elements, spheres and limbs, as well as his new channels winds and drops are partially contaminated because they come in part from his parents's continuum.

They need to train, they can go wrong, they will need to be discipled one in a while, etc etc, etc. Kyabje Dagom Rimpoche has tried to discipline that gone astray tulku but with only minimal success.
Having placed all your trust and your hopes in a Tulku, I pray you are never deceived like me, because you practice is going to collapse faster the the twin towers on 9/11. Some of my friends are not buddhists anymore. Having seen what they saw, they say Tulku are no better than the catholic priest's who've been caught with children. They think like that! Not me, I know they attainned enlightement in a past life but still need to train in this life to 'manifest boddhi' at this particuliar time and place.

I am not bitter, I am wiser!

I any case, nowadays, we should only rely on Tulkus that have: 1) been officially recognized by Dorje Shugden (tru Oracle, not just MO!) and 2) completed their studies.

Now is the time to throw the tomatoes...................................................................................

[dave]

I believe this is why my root guru Geshe Kelsang Gyatsi Rinpoche does not want to use the Tulku system in our tradition after his passing.
He recognized his mother through a "MO" and it's a beautifual story on how she was found but I think he wishes his students to follow teachers who are already on the path in this life now.
Even if he decides to become reborn into another human form after his "death" I don't believe he would let himself be recognized by anyone in our tradition.
I believe my teacher who is a Lay teacher is a manifestation of Marpa himself...through obvious signs,but he would nor Geshe-la ever point this out.



About people who follow Tulku's believing they are enlightened;from what I've read even if they are not but you have faith,the Buddha's will still grant their blessings.


Just my POV.

No tomatoes.

[Alexis]

Thanks Dave for the no Tomatoes...

What you said is true concerning receiving the blessings of buddhas. It is like that.

However, in this degenerate time we live in, it is not like at the time of Milarepa, the majority of disciples are not so strong. The least disciples, which are the majority, will judge very fast according to name only. The medium disciples (like myself!) will judge according to conduct, the best (like you!) will not judge. 

Why Je Rimpoche stressed that his disciples, householders and high lamas alike, should follow Vinaya rules strictly, it is because of the times and the minds of sentient beings. Also, it is said in the Lam Rim that one should investigate the conduct of the teacher before choosing him as guru. In fact one should investigate both the teacher and the Dharma he teaches to see if they match.There is a reason for this. This is in the preliminaries.

But once you have choosen a guru, it should be like you said. That is, even if you accidentally catch the ordained lama having intercourse with your wife or trying to poison your dog, you should see him a shakyamuni himself.

In Liberation in the Palm of your Hand, Pabongka Rimpoche says that it is very shamefull when Tulkus don't behave properly, because it causes a degeneration of dharma in that place. This is, wether one sees them as a buddha or not, because the majority of the people will judge their actions. This is why we follow very strict Vinaya in Gelug, because of the minds of sentient beings, it is good for the lama and disciple alike.

[beggar]

dear Alexis,
i think we should also bear in mind that there are different levels of tulkus - if they have been born as dedicated dharma practitioners only for a small number of lives, they may not be able to manifest their potential unless the conditions are perfect, but if they have 'been around' for many incarnations, they may even choose to be born in all kinds of circumstances and still come out glorious, which will be of tremendous inspiration to ordinary beings like me who may have a limiting concept that authentic dharma can only be attained by tibetans, on high thrones etc, basically by beings who have nothing in common with me. This is an act of extreme compassion i feel; i have witnessed this and it is a major source of inspiration to me every day of my life.
In the case of steven segal i think HH Penor Rinpoche defined the concept of tulku very widely as someone who has potential to benefit. I admit i smiled too when i heard about his nomination, but i trust that HH Penor Rinpoche sees something good coming out of it somehow, sometime, even if it is just to remind us that we all have good potential.
Of course the cases you mentioned are saddening, and exalted masters like Kyabje Zong Rinpoche have also said (i've read) that we shouldn't put too much emphasis on titles - on the other hand he himself keeps proving the infinite inherent benefit of the tulku system by coming back since Je Tsongkhapa's time to work for the good of all beings. Needless to say that in samsara everything, no matter how sacred, will be exploited by the greedy and power-hungry, but let's not let it discourage us!
And, again, over time it will be obvious who prevails in virtue and seflessness and who not. If we give up the Dharma because of a bad experience (which ultimately only reflects that samsara is samsaric), then it also has a lot to do with our own karma and obscurations. I know the situation, and looking back now i can only say that i used it as an excuse to turn my back on Dharma and 'celebrate' some more self-cherishing. Also, have i really checked the lama, or was i looking for some fast kicks and thus instigated my own fall by meeting someone who matched my caliber?...After all, i can only meet the result of a cause i have created. There are constructive doubts and destructive ones.
I suggest to be aware - faith and self-responsibility are not exclusive, quite the opposite - yet open to the wonderful possibilities of making a connection with these carriers of sacred lineage transmission called tulkus.

showers of flowers -
yours, beggar

[Alexis]

Yes, dear Beggar (sounds funny!),

It is like that.

The idea behind my posts are just to spread awarness within western students. Because I have met sooooooo many westerners who immediatly switch off their brain when they see the title 'Tulku' appearing before someone's name. Many of these practitionners have been seriously disapointed afterwards. Even some people I know from other traditions, like kagyu. Tulkus need to train their minds again, they have to do the sadhanas and finish their studies. Everyone in gelug monasteries knows this.

Finally I will describe what Kyabje Dagom Rimpoche told that american tulku who had incredible visions when he first saw rimpoche (the man was already quite old and was from a southern baptist faith). After further investigation Rimpoche told him:

'you have an incredibly close connexion with the Ganden Lineage. If you cultivate this connexion, you will rise very fast, like ligntning! If you don't, you will fall very low, very fast.'

On another occasion Kyabje Rimpoche, as he was walking out of the gompa, stopped before him and said: 'it has been an honor for me to practice with a person like you' (or something similar). The tulku didn't feel any special and for a while was wondering what was happenning to him.

The idea is that he has to train so that the potentialities will ripen fast. I spoke to him earlier this year and he was deeply engaged in studies and practices. We wish him all the luck and positive energy!

[beggar]

dear Alexis,
i hope we will hear more first-hand accounts from you about Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche; it sounds like you spent much time near him, and few things are more inspiring than true stories of true practitioners. It would be so wonderful if this site would grow and overflow with collected beautiful text, image and sound materials that speak for themselves, contributed by our readers and fellow aspirants.
All of us here agree on one thing  (and it's cool to disagree on nearly everything else!) - Dharma is precious, and as most of us can't see the Buddhas directly, it's such a blessing to meet, hear of and contemplate about realized Masters of whom we can at least get a glimpse of a fragrance - even if it is only their gross form and speech we perceive - as they bring the teachings alive with their presence and example.
All you lucky ones out there who spent real time with the great ones, may you soon write from the depths of your hearts of your encounters, as an offering to your Masters, and share them with the world! Our 'world' may be small (now) but if we truly mean to benefit beings without exception, our drop of love may reveal itself to be an ocean soon...
yours -
beggar

[a friend]

From Beggar to a friend: In your letter in our guest book you pointed out our wrong view of calling HH the Dalai Lama's policy regarding Dorje Shugden as skillful means. Now if we adopt your point as it is it leads directly to the extreme view that His Holiness has failed us, betrayed us, is not compassionate, not wise, and of no benefit, because if it is true, in your point there is no room for any others. You are really attacking His Holiness and asking us to believe he has become a demon, much like others are attacking us about our dharmapala.

From a friend to Beggar,

Dear precious one,

No, if you adopt my point (that you should suppress your lauding HHDL for what he did with regard our sublime Protector, because by praising that deed you are destroying in the mind of the common folk the basic enlightened actions of the Buddhas, which are to tell us what to keep and what to abandon), you would not be falling in any extreme views. To suppress the praise of what should never be applauded doesn't force you to say harsh things about HHDL. Just tell the facts and do not criticise, neither praise what is not worthy of praise. Why jump to the extreme view that he is a demon? There are many other things that you could say, instead. For instance, that because he is the political leader of the Tibetans he thought it was ok to unify the Tibetans behind a common "enemy". Bad idea, may be, but not of a demon, just of a politician. All the Tibetans I know -Sangha and lay people- maintain that this issue of our Protector is "politics, not religion". That's common sense, not extreme views. Anyway, what is a lokta, a wrong view, is to tell people that what is wrong is good. It destroys the Buddha's actions for sentient beings. You can worship HHDL as much as you want in the privacy of your heart, but in public, please worship him if you want, applaud him, rejoice about him, praise him...  for what is correct: that he's been the champion of the Tibetan nation in the world at large, that he is for so many -not necessarily buddhists- the face of compassion, a beacon of hope, a bridge between religion and the scientific minds, a delightful gentleman when he chooses to show his carisma, and so many other pleasant things. But again and again, let's not praise what in the conventional field is wrong, to do it is not Dharma, even if to some it sounds like a nice view. One should not confuse people about the formidable matter of karma, about what actions are virtuous and what actions are not virtuous.
Let's talk instead about the wonders of our Protector and the teachings of our blessed holy Je Tsongkapa.

Sarva mangalam

[beggar]

dear friend,
first of all - thank you; it's really so encouraging to see practitioners with sublime knowledge and experience enrich this site! We hope that more and more it will become a communal creation with viewers becoming participators, sending in their own texts, stories and experiences, beautifully written as they would for a book, which hopefully we can compile eventually!
Apologies for having been a bit provocative in my post to you. I think that seemingly different views often come from looking either from an exoteric or esoteric view, or, as you mention in the case of HH the Dalai Lama, from his different roles as Lama and politician (the latter i've tried to comment on in 'supression stories'). Also, as mentioned in our mission statement, part of our hopes here is to simply provide suggestions for more constructive views than glorification or condemnation, in which trap not to fall definitely seems to be one of the 'tests' for us provided by this 'controversy'. Following the simple reasoning for example, that if the Dalai Lama says 'don't do it,' many Chinese will say 'let's do it!', it can be said that His Holiness is spreading Dharmapala's practice in China, and the only hope for a betterment of Tibet's situation seems to come from a profound Dharma revival in China (which, as new superpower, will also very much influence the world at large). Spreading Dharmapala's practice will lead to Dharma practice in general, even if done with wrong intention at the outset (even to an angry unbelieving mind, seeing the Buddha brings blessing), so incidentally (accidentally? hard to believe), His Holiness is helping Tibet by sending the Powerful Herald of Dharma Dawn into China, as he has via so many great Masters into Europe, America and so on.
And so we can still rejoice, even if in our hearts we wait for the day when the truth can fly with both wings again; even if we disagree on the ultimate level.

In any case, thank you and i'm looking very much forwards to hear more from you about the wonders of our Protector and the teachings of our blessed holy Je Tsongkapa.
yours -
beggar

[a friend]

Beggar dearest,

because today (for some, in some hours for others) is such a marvelous beautiful Je Tsongkapa's Day, let me send for those who might not know it his praise to the Buddha for having taught dependent arising.
I don't know where to put it so I'll just send it here.
much love

a friend

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
A PRAISE TO THE BUDDHA
by Je Tsongkapa


I prostrate to those holy utterances
    of the Perfect Buddha,
Who taught dependent arising
-Neither cessation nor production;
Neither annihilation nor permanence;
Neither coming nor going;
Neither difference nor sameness-
And that peace is the [total] pacification
    of [all] elaborations.

I pay homage to Lama Mañjughosha.

1
I bow down to you,
Omniscient One, Highest of Teachers-
Victor, who realized dependent arising
And then taught it to others.

2
Whatever problems there are in the world
Have ignorance as their root.
That ignorance, you taught,
Is destroyed by perceiving dependent arising.

3
Given that, how then do the intelligent
Fail to comprehend that the
Path of depending arising
Is the very crux of all your teachings?

4
That being so, how could anyone find
A more wondrous reason to praise you,
O Protector, than for teaching
Dependent arising?

5
What method of instruction is
More marvelous than that which teaches:
"Whatever depends upon causes
Is void of inherent existence"?

6
The way the immature apprehend [dependent arising]
Does nothing but tighten the bonds of extreme views.
But [when apprehended by] the wise,
It is the very means of cutting
The net of all elaborations.

7
As this teaching is seen nowhere else,
Only you can be called "Teacher."
To call a non Buddhist "Teacher"
Is flattery; like calling a fox a lion.

8
Amazing Teacher! Amazing refuge!
Amazing speaker! Amazing savior!
I prostrate to that Teacher
Who masterfully taught dependent arising.

9
Benefactor, for the sake of helping beings
You taught the peerless way
That brings ascertainment of shunyata-
The very heart of your teaching.

10
How could they possibly fathom your system
Of results arising in relation to their causes
Who wrongly perceive that such a relationship
Is contradictory or not established?

11
You maintain that when emptiness
Is perceived as dependent arising,
Emptiness of inherent existence
Will no longer be seen as contradicting
The validity of agent and action.

12
You also maintain that as long as [beings]
Hold [emptiness] as being in opposition to that
[dependent arising]
-that empty objects cannot fonction and
that agents cannot be empty-
They will plunge into a frightening abyss.

13
It is because dependent arising
Is found in your teaching
That it is so well praised;
And because there is neither utter nonexistence
Nor existence by way of [an entity's] own essence.

14
Nondependence is like a skyflower.
Hence, no existent is unrelated.
If anything existed by way of its own nature,
It would be contradictory for it to rely
on causes and conditions.

15
Thus, since you taught that no phenomena exist
Except those that arise dependently,
There are no phenomena other than those
That lack self-existent essence.

16
You taught that if any phenomenon
Had the slightest inherent existence,
Nirvana could not be achieved nor elaborations undone,
Because a self-existent essence could not be reversed.

17
Therefore, who would challenge
What you taught so often and so well-
A lion's roar amidst a throng of sages-
The complete absence of self-existence?

18
"Not the slightest self-existence"
And "in reliance on 'this' 'that' arises,"
Are both correctly established,
And, needless to say, exist together without contradiction.

19
You said that by reason of dependent arising
One will be able to avoid extreme views.
This teaching, O Protector, is the reason that
You are a teacher unsurpassed.

20
That all things are empty of essence,
And that from this [cause] this effect arises,
Are two certainties that, rather than oppose,
Support each other.

21
What is more amazing than this?
What could be more wonderful?
There is no other true way of
Praising you than this!

22
No wonder those enslaved by ignorance
Have animosity toward you,
And cringe at the very
Words "no self-existence"!

23
There are those who accept dependent arising
As the cherished treasure of your holy speech,
Yet cannot bear the sound of the word "shunyata."
This to me is strange indeed!

24
Now, if upon hearing
The term "dependent arising,"
They take it to mean inherent existence,
When in fact it is the highest door
That leads to lack of self-existence…

25
How then could they possibly
Be led to the noble path that pleases you,
Through that peerless entryway
Well traveled by the holy ones?

26
Self-existence -not produced and not reliant;
Dependent arising -reliant and produced;
How could these coexist
Without contradiction?

27
Therefore, that which is dependently arisen,
Has always been utterly void of self-existence.
Yet, because things still appear as self-existent,
You taught that all this is like a magical display.

28
Furthermore, you taught that
No debater could reasonably find fault
With your teaching nor defeat you.
It is this very teaching that renders them silent.

29
If you ask, "Why so?"
It is because this explanation [of dependent arising]
Dispels any chance to exaggerate or deny
[The status of] entities seen and unseen.

30
This very path of dependent arising,
The reason I regard your speech as unmatched,
Also gives rise to the certainty that
All your other teachings are true.

31
Once you gained true realization,
You then taught well.
Those who follow you,
Rid themselves of problems
by destroying the roots of evil.

32
Those who turn away from your teaching,
Though they struggle long and hard,
Only invite more problems,
Because their self-grasping view is firmly held.

33
Amazing! When the wise understand
The difference between these two,
Why wouldn't they feel respect for you
From the very marrow of their bones?

34
No need to speak of many teachings
When even a vague understanding
Of  just one facet of your teachings
Brings supreme delight!

35
Alas! My mind is marred by ignorance.
Although I have long since taken refuge
In the bounty of your excellence,
I have yet to gain even its smallest part.

36
But before this stream of life runs out,
As it courses toward the Lord of Death,
I am thinking myself fortunate to have
Gained just a little faith in you.

37
Among teachings, the teaching on dependent arising;
Among [the types of] wisdom, wisdom of dependent arising.
Like the Buddhas in the [many] worlds,
You, and no others, know these to be
completely supreme.

38
Everything you taught
Is based on dependent arising-
designed to effect nirvana.
And your every deed-
to yield nothing but peace.

39
O, how marvelous your teachings are!
Since they bring peace to all
Whose ears they reach,
Who would not want to uphold them reverently?

40
This system, free from contradiction
from top to bottom,
Overcomes all rivals and
Grants to beings the two goals.
In this I take increasing delight.


41
For its sake you gave
Again and again over countless eons,
At times your body, at times your life,
Your dear family and ample wealth.

42
Upon seeing the virtues of that Dharma
Fathomed by your mind,
I was drawn like a fish on a hook.
How unfortunate not to have heard
that teaching directly from you!

43
By the force of that sorrow,
My mind can't give up that thought;
Like a mother whose mind is consumed
By thoughts of her dear son.

44, 45
But when the thought of you teaching
comes to mind-
"This is how the Master taught,
Blazing with the splendor of his
Signs and marks, encircled by an orb of light,
And speaking with such a pure voice"-

Just the image of the Muni that
I conjure in my mind soothes this pain,
As does the light of the moon for one
Tormented by the heat of the sun.

46
Those who are unskilled
Have made of your most excellent system,
A complete tangle,
Much like the bel ba dza.

47
Upon seeing this,
I relied upon the works of sages
And diligently sought
Your true intent again and again.

48
At that time, the more I studied the many texts
Of our own and others' systems,
The more my mind was
Completely troubled by a net of doubt.

49, 50, 51
The way of your highest vehicle,
Which rejects the extremes of
Being absolutely or not being at all,
Would be explained, as you prophesied,
By Nagarjuna, whose treatises,
Like a garden of moonflowers,
Blossomed, through the great kindness of my Lama,
Beneath the white light beams of the
Brilliant explanations of the Glorious Moon,
Whose waxing orb of stainless wisdom
Moves unimpeded through the sky of scriptures,
Outshining constellations of false speech
and clearing the heart of the darkness of extreme views.
At last my tormented mind found true relief.

52
Among all his deeds,
The act of teaching is supreme.
And of his teachings, this one is supreme.
Therefore, the wise should
remember the Buddha for this!

53
I became ordained as your follower,
And studied your teachings in no meager way;
-A monk who exerted himself
in his spiritual practice.
In this way I respectfully
Honor that Great Sage.

54
Since it is through the great kindness of a Lama
That one even meets with such teachings
Revealed by the consummate Teacher,
I dedicate the virtue of composing this work
to all beings without exception.
May it serve as a cause for them to be taken
Under the care of holy spiritual guides.

55
May the teachings of the One who only benefits others
Remain undisturbed by the winds of bad thoughts,
until samsara's end.
And may the world always be filled with beings
who have gained faith in the Master
Through achieving correct understanding
of his teaching system.

56
In all my future lives,
even at the cost of life or limb,
May I never stop or for a single moment slacken
In upholding this, the Muni's excellent system,
that clarifies the true nature of dependent arising.

57
I pray that I may spend both day and night
Contemplating ways to spread this teaching-
The one realized by that excellent Guide-
Through strenuous practice and measureless hardship.

58
If I exert myself to this end
With extraordinary intent,
May Brahma and Indra,
Mahakala, and other guardians of the world,
At all times willingly come to my aid.



*   *   *

[beggar]

EMAHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how amazingly wonderful... what could be more perfect to celebrate Je Tsongkhapa than to contemplate his celebration of Lord Buddha's teachings on dependent arising?
though so far from even a glimpse of realization, i beg for only this and pray today that all beings may be nourished by it - the only ambrosia of awakening

                                                  THANK YOU ALL HERE
                                                      MAY EVERY DAY BE A HAPPY JE TSONGKHAPA DAY!

[Rinchen]

This is a definite informative piece that needs more people to read through it. It is just so interesting to see what is going on. It is really cool how these masters just keep reincarnating back to the world to just benefit and help us. The whole thoughts is just us to wish and hope to be able to be of service to others.

What I find it really incredible is that of these incarnations, there are some incarnations of certain masters go way back to the times of the Buddha.

[SabS]

I agree with Rinchen. This conversation started by Alexis and answered by many like David (USA), Beggar, a friend , etc, had turned into a teaching. I personally am amazed at the Tulku system and believe that with credible validation, the real incarnated Masters are all enlightened and having to go through the system of learning is also a form of teaching to the people and for the lineage blessings to carry on. Thank you dorjeshugden.com for providing this forum where discussion can be carried out to provide answers and teachings to others. Thank you Commentators for the debate that is so interesting and enlightening.

[Rinchen]

Yes SabS, one of such masters that I have mentioned that have been reincarnated for thousands of years. One such person would be the famous Magadha Sangmo who is the daughter of the sponsor to Buddha. She has also offered incense offering from a far away place to invite the Buddha and his entourage over to. Buddha at that time manifested great powers to allow the people at Gokhara was surprised by Buddha's psychic manifestation.


I really find Magadha Sangmo someone really special. She is like a person that women can look up to and aspire to be as well. She did not juts use her life to marry into a family and that is it. What she did was to use that opportunity to bring her husband and parents-in-law nearer to Dharma. And eventually bringing the whole of Gokhara to be a dharmic community.


Below is an attachment from another article that I have read that was about the bio of her which I find it really interesting.

The story of Magadha Zangmo begins with her father, Suddatta, a kind and generous man whom was one of Buddha Shakyamuni’s lay disciple and a primary patron. He was instrumental in building Buddha’s first monastic abode called Jetavana. Suddatta established himself as a philanthropist by practicing the Buddha’s teachings on Generosity which earned him the name ‘Anathapindika’ which means “the feeder of the orphans or helpless”. Having gained great faith in the Buddha’s teachings and took refuge in the Three Jewels, Anathapindika became the foremost student of Buddha Shakyamuni and set a great example for all sponsors, on the right attitude to hold when sponsoring one’s Guru in Dharma.


When the Buddha was about to enter the Rain Retreat which lasts three months during the monsoon, the caring Anathapindika enquired where the Buddha would be staying during this period as it would be difficult to travel to get necessary supplies. Upon knowing that the Buddha did not have a permanent shelter, Anathapindika set forth to look for a suitable place which is the current Jetavana Grove in the land of Magadha. But procuring the beautiful park was no easy task, as it belonged to Prince Jeta, whom had not the slightest interest to sell his beautiful park. To deter Anathapindika from asking further, the prince said “Alright, you can have the park for however much it costs to cover the ground with gold coins”. Seizing this opportunity, Anathapindika immediately agreed to the prince’s terms and soon brought over wagons filled with gold coins to cover the ground. Upon seeing Anathapindika’s determination, the Prince asked the reason for which Anathapindika needed this park for. On hearing that the park was for the Buddha and His retinue, the prince immediately relented and handed the park over to Anathapindika for a more reasonable price. From then on, Anathapindika spent a large portion of his fortune to build a monastery for the Buddha complete with accommodation for the Buddha and Sangha members, assembly halls and lotus parks, while Prince Jeta, who initially reluctant to sell his park, offered to build an impressive gate house leading into the park and a wall around it for privacy.


Upon the completion of the monastery, Anathapindika invited and offered the Buddha to reside in the monastery. The inauguration of the monastery was a huge fanfare with the assembly of gods and men coming together, rejoicing in Anathapindika’s generous deed. The Buddha took the Jetavana monastery as His main residence and gave many teachings there to benefit all sentient beings. Records of this virtuous man is found in all Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana scriptures and it is said that due to his devotion to the Buddha, he had attained the state of a Sottapanna, the first stage leading to Arhatship.


Anathapindika had two daughters and adopted a third. When his younger biological daughter, Magadha Zangmo came of age, a famous merchant named Ugga approached Anathapindika to ask for his daughter in marriage. Although Anathapindika was not in favor of allowing his daughter to marry this man, as he lived very far away and is not a Buddhist practitioner, he however allowed his daughter to make the decision and asked what conditions she would wish for to be married into the house of Ugga.


Magadha Zangmo then replied, if Ugga will invite the Buddha and His disciples to their home for a meal, she is willing to marry him. Ugga agreed to her terms and the both were married in a distant land called Gokhara. Gokhara was not a Buddhist community at that time, and followed mainly the Jain religion. The locals there worshipped ascetics who would meditate naked in the wild. It made Magadha Zangmo felt uneasy every time her in-laws invited these ascetics to come to their home and hosted them for meals. Magadha Zangmo began talking to her mother-in-law and father-in-law about the Buddha and in time, their curiosity grew in the Buddha. All this time, Magadha had also longed to see the golden face of the Buddha and make offerings of dana as she used to do.


One day, when the time was right, Magadha Zangmo reminded her husband of his promise to her before they were married. Ugga agreed but mentioned that it will take a long time more as the Buddha reside in a far place, but Magadha Zangmo insisted they prepare a sumptuous meal to be offered as dana to the Buddha the next day and leave the invitation of the Buddha to her. Although Ugga and her in-laws were doubtful that Buddha would arrive, to please Magadha, they prepared a large feast for the next day. On that night, Magadha Zangmo climbed up to the roof of her home and offered incense in the direction of Jetavana and recited this prayer:




MA LU SEM CHEN KUN GYI GON GYUR CHING
 DU TE PUNG CHAY MI ZAY JOM DZAY LHA
 NGO NAM MA LU YANG DA KYEN GYUR PAY
 CHOM DEN KOR CHAY NAY DIR SHEG SU SOL


Translation: Protector of all beings without exception, divine subduer of innumerable negative forces, deity, perfect knower of all things, Bhagawan and attendants, please come here.




With this prayer, she requested the Buddha together with his disciples to please come to her home and receive alms. The Buddha, being omniscient, heard her prayer and told Ananda to tell all his students who have achieved Insight to make preparations to travel to Gokhara where Magadha Zangmo lived. This heartfelt invitation of the Buddha by Magadha Zangmo has since become archetypal for ritual invocations practiced today.
The very next day, Magadha Zangmo’s house was festive with preparations for the Buddha’s arrival. The maids and servants were busy cleaning the entire household, preparing and cooking up a feast for the Buddha and His entourage. Her heart was brimming with faith as she oversaw all the preparations needed for her Master’s arrival.

 
As the sun rose towards the Zenith, some of the servants saw a procession of monks clad in saffron robes riding on dragons, garudas and other mystical animals descending from the sky. When Magadha Zangmo was asked if either one of them was her Master, she replied no as she saw the Arhats. The Buddha was seen last in the procession of Arhats, riding on a lion and as He descended from the sky the Buddha manifested into 18 separate Buddhas, each entering one of the 18 gateways to the city. Many miracles ensued that turned the city’s disbelief into faith in the Dharma. The Buddha realizing that the city’s population could not fit into Magadha’s home transformed Magadha’s house into a brilliant structure composed of moonstones and jewels. So while Magadha and her family worshipped the Buddha inside, the townsfolk outside all saw reflections of the Buddha that radiated from the house.


The entire city of people of Gokhara who were not Buddhist were left awe-struck by the spectacle of the Buddha’s psychic manifestation. Many were seen on their knees and some prostrated in faith as they have seen for themselves the Golden face of Lord Buddha. Magadha Zangmo welcomed the Buddha to her house and offered the Buddha with Dana and in return, seeing the time was ripe for Magadha Zangmo’s husband and in-laws to receive the Dharma, gave a Dharma teaching to everyone present. Thousands thronged Magadha Zangmo’s house for teachings from the Buddha. Having heard the Buddha’s teachings, many people of Gokhara took refuge in the Buddha and the Three Jewels.


It was due to Magadha Zangmo’s faith and devotion that the people of Gokhara were able to meet with Buddha, receive the Dharma and have their minds liberated. Magadha Zangmo was like her father, Anathapindika who established the culture of hosting the Buddha and the Sangha so that the Dharma would grow in her region.
 
There are many recorded accounts of Magadha Zangmo in the different Buddhist canons which indicates that Magadha Zangmo was not an ordinary being. When the Buddha’s attendant remarked to the Buddha how auspicious it was for the Buddha to answer Magadha’s prayers to visit, the Buddha responded that Magadha Zangmo had in her past life been the daughter of King Krkin, who was the main patron of the Buddha Kasyapa, and even then she had been a great devotee of the Dharma, and was the one who introduced her father, King Krkin to Buddha Kasyapa. And even before that, she had been a poor girl who had made an offering of a crown of flowers to the sanctuary of a Pratyekabuddha and made a vow to continue to do so lifetime after lifetime. Magadha’s story is that of pure devotion towards the Dharma that in turn made the Dharma available to countless people.


Magadha Zangmo lived her life serving the Buddha and the Dharma, bringing benefit to countless beings who came to listen to Buddha’s teachings. It is said that she achieved Arhatship during her lifetime as a lay householder, another indication that a practitioner can gain realizations even when we are not living the life of a monk or nun. Her story is still taught in Buddhist curriculum of today, reminding us to be humble and to always seize the chance to be generous and make offerings to the Buddhas.


From her act of offering incense to the Buddha came the tradition of making offerings to the Buddhas which is still practiced today across all Buddhist traditions. It is from her act of making incense offerings and reciting the verse of invocation which started the tradition of invocation prayer. Magadha Zangmo’s life legacy came filled with spiritual meaning and it was said that she continued to return to Samsara as great Buddhist masters as well as ordinary incarnations to benefit more beings after her passing.