Author Topic: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news  (Read 14162 times)

LosangKhyentse

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Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« on: September 08, 2010, 07:41:52 PM »
1. Toned Down

Thanks to the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is very well known to the world.

Now it is our job to further educate everyone as to who he is, his history, his benefits, why we need him and how to begin his practice.

Trijang Rinpoche's prophecy in the 70's regarding how Dorje Shugden/Dalai Lama will work together to spread the dharma although it may not appear so, of course is accurate and coming true now.

The Dalai Lama currently during public speeches has begun to say that it is his duty to let you know the 'disbenefits' of Shugden but IT IS UP TO US TO PRACTICE OR NOT. As you have religious freedom. He is not directly saying YOU CAN'T PRACTICE. He has toned down now.  The monks at Serpom Monastery mentioned Dalai Lama's tone is much less harsh and during his stay in Sera, NO TROUBLE CAME TO SERPOM MONASTERY WHAT SO EVER. NO RIOTS FROM LAY PPL AT ALL this time around which of course is big news. No one from the Dalai Lama's group incited any incidences against Serpom Monastery this trip. 

Dalai Lama has toned down his speech especially the latest one in Sera in late August-early Sept 2010. Perhaps even though the Dalai Lama was not taken to court, but was 'warned' to tone done his speeches against Shugden. For the Indian courts to release the case on technicalities, I'm sure they might have given the Dalai Lama a light warning also. Otherwise nothing else could have influenced Dalai Lama to becareful in regards to Shugden and freedom of worship. Good signs.

It is ironic, because near where he was giving his sermon in Sera is Serpom Monastery happily practicing, debating and doing their activities. When the Dalai Lama was staying in Sera recently and giving sermons, he can hear the monks of Serpom Monastery doing their debates energetically and enthusiasitically as they always do from his room. Someone from his entourage mentioned, maybe they are debating extra loud to annoy the Dalai Lama staying nearby?



2. Abbotship of Serpom


Serpom Monastery requested His Holiness Pabongka Rinpoche's current incarnation to be the abbot of Serpom. Rinpoche was not adverse. But Rinpoche had Serpom Monastery's welfare in mind as he is travelling/retreating more and more in China these days. His trips in China are to teach people who have sincerely invited him and to various Buddhist pilgrimage sites of which there are many. Since he stays in China most of the time, to be the abbot of Serpom would incite the ignorant lay ppl living in surrounding camps to say that Serpom is being funded by Chinese Govt which of course is not true and has never been the case. The only way the Tibetan Govt now can incite hatred against the peaceful Dorje Shugden institutions/practitioner is to say they are traitors as they recieve financial support from the Chinese Govt. Silly and ridiculous as it sounds. So out of compassion, His Holiness Kyabje Pabongka declined taking the throne of Serpom as it's first abbot, hence they requested Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche who graciously accepted.

3. Trijang Rinpoche-Mongolia

Recently there were very huge prayer festivals in Mongolia celebrating the Parinirvana anniversary of the great Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche. Many lamas, monks, oracles and practitioners flew to Mongolia to congregate and take part in the prayers for over 20 days. His Holiness the current Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was the special guest of the prayers and he travelled there to give blessings to hundreds. It was a great honour for all of them to have recieved Trijang Rinpoche. Guru Deva was not only a great lama of Mongolian origin, very devoted to the previous Trijang Rinpoche, he was also the sponsor of the previous/current Trijang Rinpoches. Guru Deva was extremely loyal and devoted to Trijang Rinpoche. Guru Deva was considered the emanation of the wealth form of Shugden on a horse. The prayer and dedications went very well. Now everyone is waiting for the supreme incarnation of Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche to manifest.

TK

below is the great Tulku Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche of Mongolia. He was a great student, patron, sponsor of both the previous and current Trijang Rinpoches. May his incarnation manifest soon.

Zhalmed Pawo

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2010, 10:36:40 PM »
Thanks to the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is very well known to the world.

It is nice to see that sarcasm is allowed here, after all. :P

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2010, 10:40:17 PM »
Thanks to the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is very well known to the world.

It is nice to see that sarcasm is allowed here, after all. :P

It is not sarcasm at all. I mean what I say. The Dalai Lama has made Dorje Shugden very well known.

tk

Mana

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2010, 10:41:58 PM »


Sarcasm is not encouraged on this friendly Buddhist Site where we encourage learning, understandinga and practice.

Mana

Helena

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 10:42:56 PM »
Dear TK,

Thank you for sharing all these news and highlighting how HHDL has toned down his speech. That will make a lot of difference as anything the HHDL says will incite other actions or reactions from the TGIE and the Tibetan Community in general.

So, even though the Court Case has been thrown out, it has done its part in casting the "spot light" on the "Freedom to Practice".

Yes, we should all find better ways to spread the history, informative and practice of Dorje Shugden. Like this website team, who is so obviously determined in always finding new and creative ways to spread the knowledge of our great Protector, and creating more awareness about HIM. This is clearly seen through their most recent beautiful work - the DS illustrated story. It is very beautifully done, by the way.

In any case, I just wanted to say that when we put our efforts in promoting and creating awareness and knowledge of our Protector, more people will be educated.

TK, thank you for sharing the story of Serpom and Guru Deva.

Its a great relief to know that Serpom is not suffering from any more "back lash" from its own community and that they are practising and learning wonderfully.

Having said that, I can't help but laugh about the part where HHDL is just next door at Sera and he can hear what the monks in Serpom are chanting - particularly loudly or not. In any case, it is still a blessing just to hear the verses of the prayers :)

In any case, when more people read about the story of Dorje Shugden, they will make up their own minds.

I myself have learnt a great deal from this sacred space, and will continue to do so. At the same time, I will do my part to promote and create know awareness about DS with all the valuable information that I have received from here as well.

Thank you all.
Helena

Mana

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2010, 10:46:27 PM »


Nice thoughts and nice conclusions. Thank you for adding to this sacred space.

Mana

dsiluvu

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2010, 11:06:11 PM »
1. Toned Down

Thanks to the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is very well known to the world.

Now it is our job to further educate everyone as to who he is, his history, his benefits, why we need him and how to begin his practice.

Trijang Rinpoche's prophecy in the 70's regarding how Dorje Shugden/Dalai Lama will work together to spread the dharma although it may not appear so, of course is accurate and coming true now.

The Dalai Lama currently during public speeches has begun to say that it is his duty to let you know the 'disbenefits' of Shugden but IT IS UP TO US TO PRACTICE OR NOT. As you have religious freedom. He is not directly saying YOU CAN'T PRACTICE. He has toned down now.  The monks at Serpom Monastery mentioned Dalai Lama's tone is much less harsh and during his stay in Sera, NO TROUBLE CAME TO SERPOM MONASTERY WHAT SO EVER. NO RIOTS FROM LAY PPL AT ALL this time around which of course is big news. No one from the Dalai Lama's group incited any incidences against Serpom Monastery this trip. 

Dalai Lama has toned down his speech especially the latest one in Sera in late August-early Sept 2010. Perhaps even though the Dalai Lama was not taken to court, but was 'warned' to tone done his speeches against Shugden. For the Indian courts to release the case on technicalities, I'm sure they might have given the Dalai Lama a light warning also. Otherwise nothing else could have influenced Dalai Lama to becareful in regards to Shugden and freedom of worship. Good signs.


Yes this is really GOOD SIGNS of the change in tide. I've always had this opinion from many of logical inputs from this website that Dalai Lama is secretly promoting DS in a BIG BIG way using Samsara's methods. No doubt that someone like the Dalai Lama would contradict himself for no good reasons and for sure it is all premeditated and planed. Some may see it is as black and white/good and bad but there is always the gray areas we are often unwise, no merits to see.

It is now slowly happening and thanks TK for pointing out the facts yet again. Whatever it is, bottom line is Dorje Shugden is becoming more and more well known and who else could give it such a huge publicity on a global level then the Dalai Lama?! Makes one wonder why on a much deeper level.

The toning down of his words does and will affect the circumstances to come and who knows what's next. One thing good for sure is better to on our side educate more ppl on DS then to bicker whose right, whose wrong. At the end of the day the goal is spreading DS to everyone so that they too can get the benefits of it's practice.

Yes I agree with Helena, this site has been pivotal and inspiring and helpful when i need to share about DS with friends. Thank you again ds.com for your constant unbias, truthful knowledge and information.


dsiluvu

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2010, 11:31:31 PM »

2. Abbotship of Serpom


Serpom Monastery requested His Holiness Pabongka Rinpoche's current incarnation to be the abbot of Serpom. Rinpoche was not adverse. But Rinpoche had Serpom Monastery's welfare in mind as he is travelling/retreating more and more in China these days. His trips in China are to teach people who have sincerely invited him and to various Buddhist pilgrimage sites of which there are many. Since he stays in China most of the time, to be the abbot of Serpom would incite the ignorant lay ppl living in surrounding camps to say that Serpom is being funded by Chinese Govt which of course is not true and has never been the case. The only way the Tibetan Govt now can incite hatred against the peaceful Dorje Shugden institutions/practitioner is to say they are traitors as they recieve financial support from the Chinese Govt. Silly and ridiculous as it sounds. So out of compassion, His Holiness Kyabje Pabongka declined taking the throne of Serpom as it's first abbot, hence they requested Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche who graciously accepted.

3. Trijang Rinpoche-Mongolia

Recently there were very huge prayer festivals in Mongolia celebrating the Parinirvana anniversary of the great Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche. Many lamas, monks, oracles and practitioners flew to Mongolia to congregate and take part in the prayers for over 20 days. His Holiness the current Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was the special guest of the prayers and he travelled there to give blessings to hundreds. It was a great honour for all of them to have recieved Trijang Rinpoche. Guru Deva was not only a great lama of Mongolian origin, very devoted to the previous Trijang Rinpoche, he was also the sponsor of the previous/current Trijang Rinpoches. Guru Deva was extremely loyal and devoted to Trijang Rinpoche. Guru Deva was considered the emanation of the wealth form of Shugden on a horse. The prayer and dedications went very well. Now everyone is waiting for the supreme incarnation of Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche to manifest.

TK

below is the great Tulku Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche of Mongolia. He was a great student, patron, sponsor of both the previous and current Trijang Rinpoches. May his incarnation manifest soon.

1. It is just so amazing to know that HH Pabongka Rinpoche is walking on earth and teaching again. Wouldn't you consider Him a Tulku?

What I find even more interesting is that the great Pabongka is spreading the Dharma in China - wow! Through China, a powerful nation of billions, Dharma and DS will spread in to the world again. If we pay attention and connect the dots, I can see how all this act of banning DS, slandering China by TGIE creates a reaction that will most certainly have an out come that would change the world.

2. May there be more incarnations of great masters and Tulkus to return to continue their work in spreading the Dharma together.


WisdomBeing

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 01:45:13 AM »
Thank you for the update...

Re the Dalai Lama's speech toned down - yes i did think that when i read it. I had heard people say that when he gives speeches in US or Europe, he usually uses this tone but when he is addressing Tibetans in India, his tone is very aggressive against Shugden. However, since he is addressing Sera in his so-called 'western' tone, it indicates a positive shift. Call me the eternal optimist but I do think that maybe this shift will be the start of a change of attitude towards Shugden practitioners and the practice itself. It would probably not be practical for the Dalai Lama to just withdraw the ban but this way would allow him to gently change the tide.

I love the idea that the Dalai Lama will have to hear Serpom doing DS pujas!! Actually i'm sure it's music to his ears.

I love hearing about these young Tulkus.. thank Buddha for the tulku system so lay people like me can watch out for what they are doing. Thanks for sharing re Pabongka Rinpoche's reason to turn down the abbotship of Serpom. It's sad that politics always has to rear its ugly head. If people even visit China, they become labelled as a Chinese spy. Whenever i go to certain websites and say that I am a Shugden practitioner, people immediately assume that I'm being paid by China. Hello? I wish! I certainly could do with the extra dosh. Anyway, once and for all, i am not a chinese spy.

Trijang Rinpoche's attending the event in Mongolia shows that even though he has become a lay person, he is still seen as a holy man. It just shows that the true nature of a tulku shines through and is recognised by many, whether they wear the cloth or not. I do believe that these tulkus are enlightened beings themselves!

I look forward to more news... how i love this website and forum.. it really is my sanctuary every day.

thank you to the admin and everyone involved again - as always.





Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

jessicajameson

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 04:12:33 AM »

It is ironic, because near where he was giving his sermon in Sera is Serpom Monastery happily practicing, debating and doing their activities. When the Dalai Lama was staying in Sera recently and giving sermons, he can hear the monks of Serpom Monastery doing their debates energetically and enthusiastically as they always do from his room. Someone from his entourage mentioned, maybe they are debating extra loud to annoy the Dalai Lama staying nearby?


Haha. Like what WB says, and I agree, it was probably music to his ears. I'm sure that it has been quite a while since he has heard Shugdenpa monks openly debate! If the bigger picture is true, he must have been very pleased to be in the presence of Shugdenpas debating :) A little cheeky on the side of the monks to debate extra loudly though!


3. Trijang Rinpoche-Mongolia

Recently there were very huge prayer festivals in Mongolia celebrating the Parinirvana anniversary of the great Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche.


http://shargadenpa.org/ceremony-in-mongolia

Those are photos of Trijang Rinpoche in Mongolia...does anyone know who is the statue behind him in the first photo?


I'm really glad to hear that he HHDL has toned down his speech, it's the start of good things to come. Now I'm just anticipating the move!!


LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 07:30:51 AM »


There is no way in this lifetime Tibet will get any sort of Independence from China. Tibet will remain a part of China and more so after the passing of Dalai Lama. If the Tibetan govt in exile was intelligent, it would be better to become good friends with China. Have the Dalai Lama start visiting China more and more and bring Buddhism to the people. He would be a powerful draw in such a enormous nation such as China. China already has a long history of Tibetan teachers bringing Buddhism to China and also being the tutors of the past Imperial Emperors.

Options:

1. Be enemies of China and have a stalemate. In this manner, Tibet would never get it's independence anyway and many people cannot recieve Dharma from Dalai Lama. No Tibetan Independence, and more ppl do not recieve the dharma.

2. Be friends with China, Dalai Lama visits them more and more. Teach them the Dharma. Meet with more govt officials and gain their confidence. The turnout might be you don't get independence, but many millions will turn to the Buddhadharma. Everyone needs the dharma whether they are Chinese or not. Anyway, their next lives might not even be Chinese yet they can carry their dharma seeds in their mindstream to wherever they take rebirth again. This way, there might be a slight chance for autonomy for Tibet in the distant future. More hope this way. Tibet and Dalai Lama cannot fight China. No one in the world can fight China.

I find the option B would be much better for the Tibetan people in Tibet. For the Dharma to grow and increase in the world through China.

Tk

Helena

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2010, 08:54:51 AM »

No one in the world can fight China.

I find the option B would be much better for the Tibetan people in Tibet. For the Dharma to grow and increase in the world through China.

Tk


Dear TK,

Thank you for putting things into perspective.

I had not thought about it quite like that.

I think at this point in time, it is safe to say that China is very powerful, if not the most.

Even in fashion. Previously in all the runways shows like Fashion Week in Paris, we would never see Chinese Mainlanders sitting in the front row. In the past, there were hardly any Chinese at all attending these high profile fashion shows - safe for the big Asian stars. This year, at the front rows at Paris Fashion Week were all mostly Chinese.

In one of the business magazines, I read that the Chinese are the biggest buyers of private jets and helicopters in the world. In fact, the Chinese from Wenzhou bought about 21 private jets and helicopters. They even sell private planes and helicopters at shopping malls in Wenzhou. Now, that brings shopping to whole different level.

I picked these two to cite because it shows that the Chinese are moving up. So, imagine that kind of affluence, power and might. Their sheer no. of size, people and financial status give China a very strong stature in the world.

Hence, with Dharma, imagine how much the Chinese can do for the entire world - not just limited to Tibet and China. Imagine what anyone can do, when he or she has Dharma.

I find the Option you have proposed to be the most beneficial of all.

It benefits the people and then the world over. Not just themselves.

You are right to stress that without Dharma - there will be many more people who will suffer and they in turn may cause much more suffering for others in the world.

With Dharma, everyone wins - Chinese, Tibetan, Americans, Europeans, etc.

Everyone wins! I much prefer a plan or option that enables everyone to win.

And eventhough the present generation may not experience the benefits of the Dharma seeds that we have planted during our time, it is ok. As when the Dharma seeds blossom in the future, the benefits will be thousand fold. So, we pay forward in this sense.

With this option, we would have done something much more valuable than just complaining, fighting, arguing or staying stubbornly fixed in our own 'limited views'.

I like this proposed path. This also allows me to look beyond myself. And next time when I get into a challenging situation, I would also think deeper - whether would I benefit anyone with Dharma in the long run or deny them the chance to make a connection with Dharma in the first place.

The fate of a billion over people definitely warrants much consideration and compassion, regardless of what citizenship they hold.

Everyone deserves the Dharma, especially a Protector Practice that will be swift and powerful enough to help them.

Thank you kindly for sharing your thoughts.

Have a good day or evening, TK - wherever you are.

What a beautiful post to read just before I call it a night, and will hold onto these hope-filled thoughts.

Have a good one, everybody!
Helena

Lineageholder

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2010, 01:23:07 PM »
I'm beginning to think this site is moderated for political correctness towards the Dalai Lama.

What part of 'Dorje Shugden is a Chinese spirit, Shugden practitioners beat and kill and they are paid by the Chinese Government' did you think was toned down?  What part of the Dalai Lama's speech, designed to instigate strong feelings of hatred towards Shugden practitioners did you think was toned down?  I didn't see it.  Did I miss a memo?

I also think that TK thinking that the Dalai Lama is offering religious freedom is a bit unrealistic.  As the Dalai Lama said, he instituted A BAN on the practice, so where's the freedom to practice?  The freedom is only 'from the Dalai Lama's mouth' - in reality, Shugden practitioners are still ostracised from their community for not rejecting the practice in accordance with the Dalai Lama's demand to stop practising.

Why are you all Dalai Lama apologists when it is clear that he hasn't changed his stance towards Shugden and will use any public meeting to keep bringing it up, creating more and more disharmony in the Buddhist community?  He's now trying to claim that the Tibetan Government in Exile is being 'infiltrated' by China who also happen to be Dorje Shugden practitioners (that is the inference that is being drawn in this article):

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Tibetan-government-in-exile-fears-Chinese-infiltrations/Article1-597536.aspx

I think you see what you want to see, but what you want to see is not the truth.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:37:30 PM by Lineageholder »

DSFriend

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2010, 01:58:08 PM »
I'm beginning to think this site is moderated for political correctness towards the Dalai Lama.

Dear Lineageholder. This site does believe that the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden are spreading the Dharma together. This site is NOT moderated for political correctness towards the Dalai Lama and has no reason to be politically inclined. It is a platform to promote Dorje Shugden.


Why are you all Dalai Lama apologists when it is clear that he hasn't changed his stance towards Shugden and will use any public meeting to keep bringing it up, creating more and more disharmony in the Buddhist community?  He's now trying to claim that the Tibetan Government in Exile is being 'infiltrated' by China who also happen to be Dorje Shugden practitioners (that is the inference that is being drawn in this article):


This is a forum full of individuals expressing their opinions. Please do not generalise nor make personal remarks about other forum participants. Discuss the matter at hand without getting personal. 

beggar

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Re: Dalai Lama speeches against Shugden toned down & other news
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2010, 05:12:01 PM »
Ah, such good news and also something I have been noticing. Yes, lineageholder points out that he does still hold a very strong stance against the practice of shugden, but the approach is noticeably softening. This is not the first instance where he advises dharma practitioners to decide for themselves. He has also advised people to investigate any practice more thoroughly for themselves, to ponder the benefits and disbenefits. This I saw as a direct hint for people to check things out for themselves.

With all the information out there, it is clear that these people will sooner or later find out who Dorje Shugden really is – not a spirit but a Buddha – and begin to investigate more and even practice. If it was really the case that he is denouncing the practice, it would make more sense to continue along the same lines he has been for the last god-knows-how-many-decades about it being bad! bad! bad! And denouncing it full stop, NOT tell people to go find out for themselves before deciding! Now, the dalai lama hands them over directly to Dorje Shugden.