Dalai Lama Bashing

[Lineageholder]

Yes, let's stop focusing on the Dalai Lama, even though he is the source of the problem 

[Helena]

It is all about the tone of the post, which is a point many forum participants have expressed previously. Gonsar Rinpoche's tone is respectful and regretful of the ban. It is not a personal attack of HH the Dalai Lama, it is not calling him names, it is not rude nor crass. I guess in this case and other cases like HH Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche, we can really see the difference between the attitudes of a High Lama and lay people.

I totally agree with you here, WB and Beggar.

I believe we can retain respect,compassion and actively practise the 6 Paramitas for a person eventhough our views could differ.

After all, isn't this why the Buddha taught the Dharma in the first place?

We learn all these skills and put them in practice while we are in samsara and are caught in the drama of samsara's nature.

How we all react and respond to the ban or anything remotely challenging in our lives is the real reflection of how much we are practising what we have learnt and what we do understand of our Guru's teachings.

I am very glad to see/read that there are other people who are non-Shugden practitioners who can act with Dharma, as shared in the post below -

Source: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=922.45;num_replies=60#top

the shugden dispute

I AM NOT A DORJE SHUGDEN PRACTIONER BUT : We are all swimmers in the ocean of samsara ! This dispute is sadly dividing the Tibetan Buddhist community . I pray that all differences may be solved soon by the blessing of the Three Jewels I hope that all Tibetan buddhists will find unity again I  pray for the Long Life of HH  the Dalai Lama ! I pray for the Long Life of the Guru's ! If you are having a problem with this affair please pray to your Guru ! Never forsake your Guru Follow your own conscience Practice equanimity,wisdom and compassion. This article is a good example of wellinformed inside-journalism.May it help you. Jampa Gyatso  

Then the writer proceeds to post an article. Interesting enough, among other things, the article also shares the quote from Gonsar Rinpoche.

So, the writer presented all sides of the story.

I think no matter what happens - we can always choose to act, think and speak with Dharma or not.

If we truly believe that while in samsara, everything and every day is a teaching - then, the best things we can all do is to really learn and PRACTISE what we learn.

[triesa]

Yes, let's stop focusing on the Dalai Lama, even though he is the source of the problem 

Yes Lineageholder, if we can all start from ourselves and change our thoughts into positive actions yielding positive results and energy, we will be happier too. We can then bring more "positive" influence to others.

Way to go!

[thaimonk]

Our inner samsara is the source of all the problems. Not Dalai Lama.

[beggar]

Yes, let's stop focusing on the Dalai Lama, even though he is the source of the problem 

Actually, YES, let's stop focusing on the Dalai Lama. This website is about Dorje Shugden, his practice and a place for practitioners to gather, learn, share resources. It isn't a Dalai Lama website, either pro or anti.

This website isn't about looking at "problems" and focusing on that. It is about looking at positive solutions and looking at how we can bring some benefit to others via this holy practice, instead of just looking at what is wrong all the time and harping upon that alone.

[pgdharma]

Yes, let's stop focusing on the Dalai Lama, even though he is the source of the problem 

Let's focus on ourselves. We are the source  of the problem not  the Dalai Lama. Due to our deluded mind, we perceived things wrongly

[Lineageholder]

Yes, let's stop focusing on the Dalai Lama, even though he is the source of the problem 

Let's focus on ourselves. We are the source  of the problem not  the Dalai Lama. Due to our deluded mind, we perceived things wrongly

There are inner and outer problems.  Yes, it's right to deal with the inner problems of delusions by changing our mind, but sometimes you need to take action to solve an outer problem.  For example, if your roof is leaking, the solution is not to 'focus on yourself', the solution is to take action to solve the outer problem by fixing your roof!

It's the same with the Dorje Shugden issue.  The sole cause of the outer problem is the Dalai Lama.  The inner problem is reacting with intolerance, anger and so forth.   The solution to our inner problem is patience. However, patience does not mean passivity because this does not solve the problem of the ban, so outer actions has to be taken - attempting to dialogue and then, if this is ignored, to bring the issue to the attention of the public through demonstrations and so forth so that there is an accumulation of pressure to cause a change.  It's also possible to pray to change to situation, but some kind of action has to be taken. to solve the outer problem which the Dalai Lama has caused.

[thaimonk]

Here we go again. It's let's blame Dalai Lama and hate him again.

Bad read for new people to this thread.

 

[Lineageholder]

Here we go again. It's let's blame Dalai Lama and hate him again.

Bad read for new people to this thread.

Not hate, after all he's my Mother, but you have to accept that he's responsible for the 'Dorje Shugden problem'.  Who else banned the practice and encouraged the Abbots of the monasteries to expel Shugden practitioners?  Not Santa Claus 

Why can't you accept this simple truth?

[Mana]

Here we go again. It's let's blame Dalai Lama and hate him again.

Bad read for new people to this thread.

Not hate, after all he's my Mother, but you have to accept that he's responsible for the 'Dorje Shugden problem'.  Who else banned the practice and encouraged the Abbots of the monasteries to expel Shugden practitioners?  Not Santa Claus 

Why can't you accept this simple truth?

No one denies Dalai Lama started the ban. What is unacceptable, un-Buddhist, against the spirit of our discussion is the constant derogatory writing against Dalai Lama or anyone. You will not achieve our aim in that manner.
Move on. Write on the hundreds of other pertinent information to enlighten others about our protector.

Try another method. By talking about how the unexcelled qualities, pure lineage and efficacious practice of our Protector, it will slowly but surely make the ban die a slow death. Then all the reasoning given for the ban will seem illogical and unfounded. It is much better for an 'outsider' to read about the qualites of Dorje Shugden to show his greatness than post after tiring post of bantering against the Dalai Lama.

No one is in denial of what Dalai Lama has done, but the approach to make it known is not to be overt, rude, derogatory in any manner against him or any lamas. This is not apologetic towards the Dalai Lama but a gentle skilful and Buddhist manner to get the truth out. That is our approach and why we invested so much or the REASON we created this website.
 

Mana

[thor]

Constant negative talk about the Dalai Lama and his activities will create awareness of the current situation, but how much negativity would have been accrued in the process? How much will people's faith in the institution of Tibetan Buddhism be shaken, and how much unseen damage done?

I prefer the positive reinforcement way. When we promote Dorje Shugden and the benefits of his practice, it will have the power of truth behind it. More people will be convinced about our protector and his lineage. The power of reason and logic will overcome propaganda. People are not blind, as long as they understand the facts. We do not need to speak negatively about others.

And as they experience the effects of his practice for themselves, the ban will die a slow death, as mana says. Let's be Buddhist about it. If we are true followers of Dorje Shugden, then we should heed his advice and act in accordance with his lead. Embody the qualities of this Protector that we all claim to be followers of.

[thaimonk]

I am a HUGE fan of this website. Some of the views on it does not match with mine. But so what? Where else better than here is there to go to? Why find differences in a few issues, why not find commonality with the huge similarities.

Anyway if I don't like it, I DON'T HAVE TO COME HERE, but where can I go? I am addicted to this site.

I sure can't set up something like this with the time, energy, money, knowledge, research, thousands of hours necessary.

So I am here to stay and my respect for this site grows all the time.

Mehtra
San Diego

(source: post from guestbook)

[Lineageholder]

Constant negative talk about the Dalai Lama and his activities will create awareness of the current situation, but how much negativity would have been accrued in the process? How much will people's faith in the institution of Tibetan Buddhism be shaken, and how much unseen damage done?

It's not negative to state the facts.  How is that negative?  Anything else is denial, surely?  I understand the problem of the Dalai Lama's actions for Tibetan Buddhism, but Tibetan Buddhism is not the Dalai Lama.  I think this is the problem - the Dalai Lama is seen to be far more important for Tibetan Buddhism than he actually is.  In the public consciousness, he is the head of Tibetan Buddhism (and even world Buddhism!) because of his public profile and popularity.  This is why his speech has such power.

I prefer the positive reinforcement way. When we promote Dorje Shugden and the benefits of his practice, it will have the power of truth behind it. More people will be convinced about our protector and his lineage. The power of reason and logic will overcome propaganda. People are not blind, as long as they understand the facts. We do not need to speak negatively about others.

What's necessary is to reveal contradictions in the Dalai Lama's words and actions, because otherwise the power of his speech will overwhelm any attempts to speak positively about Dorje Shugden.  This is not criticising, it's simply telling the truth.  We do have the power of truth on our side, which means that the Dalai Lama has not, but he has the power of celebrity which means that most people believe him and not us when it comes down to it.  On web forums I've stated the reasons why the Dalai Lama's view is illogical, but people simply refuse to listen and prefer to accept the view of the most famous Buddhist in the world.  Never underestimate the power of celebrity, especially these days when the media is just accepted and a lot of people don't think for themselves.

And as they experience the effects of his practice for themselves, the ban will die a slow death, as mana says. Let's be Buddhist about it. If we are true followers of Dorje Shugden, then we should heed his advice and act in accordance with his lead. Embody the qualities of this Protector that we all claim to be followers of.

I don't think this will happen because, if people believe the Dalai Lama (and most people will), they will not engage in the practice.  They won't even speak to someone who practises it without a great deal of pre-formed judgement and animosity.  This is the result of the schism that has been formed by the Dalai Lama's actions.  The only chance is that, after the Dalai Lama's passing, whoever takes over his position will not promote the ban and let it die.

Anyway, I think it's pointless to pursue this discussion further as we have a fundamental disagreement about what's going to tip the balance in this sad situation, but I think the constant 'don't bash the Dalai Lama' exclamations on this forum - to the point of even refusing to state that he's caused this situation - is a denial of the truth which is every bit as harmful as all the negative propaganda against our Protector.  Why?  Because letting the Dalai Lama 'off the hook' accomplishes the purpose of the ban by denying the real situation.

Peace out 

[DSFriend]

Here we go again. It's let's blame Dalai Lama and hate him again.

Bad read for new people to this thread.

Not hate, after all he's my Mother, but you have to accept that he's responsible for the 'Dorje Shugden problem'.  Who else banned the practice and encouraged the Abbots of the monasteries to expel Shugden practitioners?  Not Santa Claus 

Why can't you accept this simple truth?

Lineageholder
This is OLD and have been addressed many times over. Do not pursue this view on this site further.

Dorjeshugden.com is NOT A HATE site or a platform for people to vent. What is so difficult to understand?

This site acknowledges the existing problem and thus, focuses and working very hard to clear wrong views about the Protector. Much work has been done to educate people. Why channel our strengths to blame? Turn it to contribute positively.

[Helena]

Whether we like to deny it or like it or not - HH the Dalai Lama has put in real TIME AND EFFORT in his spiritual 'education and pursuits'.

His ability to command a packed auditorium or room, to have the star power or celebrity status is all due to HIS efforts dedicated to spirituality through the years. Hence, yes, HE has earned that credibility.

Needless to say, HHDL has helped many people and celebrity stars turned to Dharma and even propelled Tibetan Buddhism into the global stage.

So, I think it is very safe to say that HHDL has done a great deal for Buddhism and people around the world.

All of us in here are not here by mistake. We are either brought here because of the Ban, or because we are curious of the Ban.

I tell you what is a fact and it has been stated here so many times and yet some people just refuse to understand, let alone accept -

We can dislike the ban but not HHDL. We can respect HHDL but not the Ban.

We can still view HHDL as the Buddha of Compassion, but view that the Ban is causing many great suffering.

The Buddha does not cause suffering. But the nature of samsara can cause mass destruction. Why? Because it is again the nature of samsara in people that causes them to think and act in a certain way. They will choose what they want to believe in and carry that out.

As many have posted here, we can choose better ways to deal with everything that is thrown to us because it is in our response and actions that will define how Dharmic we really are.

I personally liked what DS Friend posted in another thread. So, I shall repost it in here.

"Continue to contribute constructively and sincerely as so many have done through the years. Keep this space positive with wholesome discussions and contributions."

Have a great weekend, everyone.

I sincerely hope it is really "peace out" - for real.