Author Topic: Dalai Lama Bashing  (Read 78772 times)

Lineageholder

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2010, 12:29:23 PM »
Here we go again. It's let's blame Dalai Lama and hate him again.

Bad read for new people to this thread.

Not hate, after all he's my Mother, but you have to accept that he's responsible for the 'Dorje Shugden problem'.  Who else banned the practice and encouraged the Abbots of the monasteries to expel Shugden practitioners?  Not Santa Claus  ;D

Why can't you accept this simple truth?

Lineageholder
This is OLD and have been addressed many times over. Do not pursue this view on this site further.

Dorjeshugden.com is NOT A HATE site or a platform for people to vent. What is so difficult to understand?

This site acknowledges the existing problem and thus, focuses and working very hard to clear wrong views about the Protector. Much work has been done to educate people. Why channel our strengths to blame? Turn it to contribute positively.

So you're now censoring the correct view that the Dalai Lama has caused the Dorje Shugden problem?

You're in denial of the truth.  Not good.

I'm disappointed to find that you would actively censor correct views.  It's disconcertingly similar to what the Dalai Lama is doing against Dorje Shugden.

The problem is, the more you try to protect the Dalai Lama's reputation (which seems very political to me), the more I feel inclined to tell the truth.  So let's have no more 'let's not bash the Dalai Lama' threads and we can maintain the status quo.

thaimonk

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2010, 01:25:40 PM »
Do you have any better things to post? Or do you know nothing else?

Mana

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2010, 01:27:39 PM »
Here we go again. It's let's blame Dalai Lama and hate him again.

Bad read for new people to this thread.

Not hate, after all he's my Mother, but you have to accept that he's responsible for the 'Dorje Shugden problem'.  Who else banned the practice and encouraged the Abbots of the monasteries to expel Shugden practitioners?  Not Santa Claus  ;D

Why can't you accept this simple truth?

Lineageholder
This is OLD and have been addressed many times over. Do not pursue this view on this site further.

Dorjeshugden.com is NOT A HATE site or a platform for people to vent. What is so difficult to understand?

This site acknowledges the existing problem and thus, focuses and working very hard to clear wrong views about the Protector. Much work has been done to educate people. Why channel our strengths to blame? Turn it to contribute positively.

So you're now censoring the correct view that the Dalai Lama has caused the Dorje Shugden problem?

You're in denial of the truth.  Not good.

I'm disappointed to find that you would actively censor correct views.  It's disconcertingly similar to what the Dalai Lama is doing against Dorje Shugden.

The problem is, the more you try to protect the Dalai Lama's reputation (which seems very political to me), the more I feel inclined to tell the truth.  So let's have no more 'let's not bash the Dalai Lama' threads and we can maintain the status quo.

We dorje shugden practitioners do not agree with Dalai Lama and his incorrect stance against Shugden. From whatever angle you examine this, it is wrong. But as responsible Buddhists who are holding perhaps the three sets of vows, we should not just bash the Dalai Lama. We may express clearly our feelings and with logic give evidence and that is fine.

This forum is for both pro and anti Shugden people because by debating we can come to a better understanding of eachother. War of words motivated from bias, anger and hate will go somewhat ahead but not fully ahead. Shugden practitioners are in a sort of minority although millions practice him, so the peaceful and logical way to make our case heard is the right way to go. After all, karma will follow all whether you like the Dalai Lama or not.

Therefore Dalai Lama bashing is NOT ENCOURAGED on this website at all. Our website is not aligned to any centre, hence it will not be a platform for the sole views of any centre's but can share views of all centres.


We can run our website any way we deem fit. If you are not happy with it, you can be inclined to tell your truth any where else you like.

Mana

thaimonk

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2010, 01:38:10 PM »
Very well said Mana.

Thank you .

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2010, 01:40:45 PM »


Mana, you are right, this website is not aligned to anyone and it has set out it's purpose in the mission statement from the very beginning.

I will abide by the mission statement. The multitudes of benefits I enjoy is tremendous. I thank you and all at the website for helping my practice so much and giving me a platform to share/learn.

TK

Helena

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2010, 02:09:14 PM »
In times of adversity and confusion, when one is so intent on complaining about the state of adversity and confusion but nothing else, it serves really no benefit or purpose.

WHY? Because we all ARE WELL AWARE of just how sad the situation is. I mean, just how merry and wonderful does anyone expect samsara to be anyways?

All these and everything that has come to pass IS SAMSARA.

But when one is more intent on doing something positive and more beneficial then something truly wonderful would happen.

I mean, if all the high Lamas truly held onto such pessimistic and negative thoughts, I don't think any of them would be able to escape the horror of what happened to their country or themselves. They may not even go on to further promote Tibetan Buddhism all around the world and make it bigger than Tibet.

If an entire Chinese Invasion can't even stop Buddhism from spreading, what more a ban by any other name?

When challenged, we can rise and even soar higher than ever before or just hang onto our misery and just sink with it.

This website has gone beyond rising - it comes out with information and content that truly promotes Dorje Shugden.

While the ban may have made Dorje Shugden front page news - websites like these will sustain that front page news and transcend them into valuable information that educates everyone - regardless of the ban.

What I love about this website and monasteries like Shar Gaden and Serpom - it shouts the spirit of positive determination. Unstoppable. Just like the Supreme Protector. Unstoppable.

Now, we can lend our voices and efforts to do the same so that everyone's effort is united for the same cause - clarify the misunderstanding and spread the Protector's Practice.

When there is any conflict or misunderstandings, even a ban, there lies an opportunity to clarify and correct it - NOT BASH IT.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 02:13:10 PM by Helena »
Helena

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2010, 04:40:57 PM »
I thought we were past this issue already and I'm surprised that the moderator has to still repeat the same mantra to forum participants who will not abide by the rules of this forum.

Thank you Mana for again stepping in to remind the forum of the Buddhist principles we should all abide by. I very much like the stance of this website that no Lama should be criticised. It is very much in line with what i think Dharma is about. And as Gonsar Rinpoche has eloquently stated, he does not agree with the ban but yet he does not bash the Dalai Lama. And that kind of attitude is what we should all follow.

There are plenty of other forums I have come across where there is plenty of Dalai Lama bashing going on. I'm so glad this forum is not one of them. Perhaps those who cannot restrain themselves can go to those other forums because this kind of attitude is not welcome here.

Thank you moderators again!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

beggar

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2010, 04:48:07 PM »
The stance of this website and forum have been very clear since the beginning which is that we do not agree with the ban nor many of what the dalai lama has said regarding this ban and about Dorje Shugden. The website does not agree with the many highly detrimental, damaging actions of the TGIE against DS practitioners.

We discuss and bring to attention the recent political situation and present all sides of the story on this website. I have said this many times before - just look at all the articles and information provided on the website. They show all sides of the stories, the suffering that people are experiencing by this ban, the vastly illogical arguments that the dalai lama has given. It also provides the more positive aspects of DS practice that proves, by its examples, the illogic and futility of all the "arguments" against Dorje Shugden. The website presents all the facts from all sides and allows the (intelligent) viewer to come to his own informed decision.

We do not deny that there is a ban, nor the effects of the ban. HOWEVER, the website also acknowledges that the Dalai Lama is a spiritual guide to many, and his teachers have also been a source of inspiration and solace to millions all over the world. There are also many in the world whose lives have also been positively affected by the Dalai Lama, for the better. So it's important we also be careful how we talk about the dalai lama - as with any lama. Simply repeating "he is the cause of the problem", "he is a liar", "he created problems" etc etc - well, how does that actually help the situation? It doesn't, and at the same time it can create many harmful doubts in practitioners all around the world, affecting their samaya and practice.

Instead of merely focusing on what the dalai lama has done or said - which by now is very clear to everyone - can we start to look at other more positive and tangible actions that we can do to support as many people as possible: i.e. both to provide support for  DS practitioners as well as not to derail the Dharma practice or samaya of Dalai Lama's students.

The fact of the matter is that the "problem" is there, the ban exists. Simply just repeating that the Dalai Lama created it, the dalai lama is wrong, the dalai lama this and that hasn't proven to change the situation of the ban, sadly. It hasn't worked - the ban is still there, people are still suffering and in fact, people may even begin to dislike DS practitioners, seeing them as belligerent, rude, disrespectful to the lamas etc.

Apart from just repeating and repeating how bad and wrong the Dalai Lama is, think:
- How ELSE what are you doing about it to support and help fellow practitioners?
- Are you helping to sponsor DS monasteries around the world?
- Are you making materials available / providing information about the truth of Dorje Shugden's practice and Dharma so people can gain more understanding of the situation and therefore not follow the ban blindly?

This website has provided a wealth of information, from all angles on the subject - the good, the bad, the ugly, pro Dalai Lama, against Dalai Lama, the illogic of the ban, explanations about the truth behind DS practice, the logic of Dharma. It has provided EDUCATION for people to learn and really understand the situation from the ground up, and therefore, gain confidence and faith in their practice. Ask yourself: what have you done to contribute to this positive, empowering education in a way that doesn't just add to the huge amount of rhetoric that is already out there?

triesa

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2010, 05:06:27 PM »
Please don't make reading this forum like reading old newspaper.

Everyone knows it is the Dalai Lama who started the ban on DS practice. So move on and talk about something new, can we?????

Focusing always on the negativities yield only more negativities. Why don't we use the time and resources to focus on something positive, like learning about the DS practice, how to promote DS to the world, etc.

Can we just try to do this and respect the rules of this forum?

It is actually very easy to do this together.

Make this a constructive learning hub rather than a destructive battle ground.

Thank you.




thaimonk

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2010, 05:12:33 PM »
Please don't make reading this forum like reading old newspaper.

Everyone knows it is the Dalai Lama who started the ban on DS practice. So move on and talk about something new, can we?????

Focusing always on the negativities yield only more negativities. Why don't we use the time and resources to focus on something positive, like learning about the DS practice, how to promote DS to the world, etc.

Can we just try to do this and respect the rules of this forum?

It is actually very easy to do this together.

Make this a constructive learning hub rather than a destructive battle ground.

Thank you.


Excellent points. Thanks..

thaimonk

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2010, 05:27:06 PM »
If I was a sangha member ordained in '95,
taught at Varahi's place,
wore maroon,
followed GKG,
loquaciously spoke to others to be forgiving, loving, and to generate bodhicitta,
I wouldn't keep speaking against Dalai lama again and again,
It wouldn't suit my name as 'GOOD BIRTH',
or the state I wish to achieve which is that of an 'ARYA',
nor would it reflect my teacher well or do him justice
or suit my vows.

Instead I would speak of dharma, forgiving, love, embracing and be an example of Sangha who are 'above' the laity's confusion, anger, mental hostility. I would be a source of wisdom, knowledge and correct view but not rant on and on about the Dalai lama~~what would my students, other sangha, new members or my teacher think? Is that what my teacher, centre, and group are promoting and sharing to villify the Dalai Lama under the clock of pure lineal practice? I should think not. I would think GKG would never approve being the saint that he really is.

All are welcome on this forum from whatever your organization, views, lineage, opinions, sangha or not, but your hatred, anger and constant rampage against any lama are not welcomed. So leave that where you are when you enter this sacred space called www.dorjeshugden.com.
~~~~~~TM
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 05:33:03 PM by thaimonk »

Vajraprotector

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2010, 05:28:29 PM »
So you're now censoring the correct view that the Dalai Lama has caused the Dorje Shugden problem?

You're in denial of the truth.  Not good.

I'm disappointed to find that you would actively censor correct views.  It's disconcertingly similar to what the Dalai Lama is doing against Dorje Shugden.

The problem is, the more you try to protect the Dalai Lama's reputation (which seems very political to me), the more I feel inclined to tell the truth.  So let's have no more 'let's not bash the Dalai Lama' threads and we can maintain the status quo.


Dear Lineageholder,
I am appalled at how you and a few people tried to convince the forum that we are in denial of the truth. Why can't it be that it is you who's in denial of the truth? How can you be sure that your perception is the truth of the reality?

I don't think the forum is trying to protect the Dalai Lama's reputation - I personally feel that website is very neutral, and does show the "bad side" of His Holiness being inconsistent; the various videos that showcase how Dalai Lama denied that people were being ostracised, Dalai Lama saying Kyabje Trijang Choktrol Rinpoche can practice Shugden etc.

 I feel that the forum is being a real Buddhist forum  - to not allow any bashing of any lama. The fact that this forum has accepted people from all background and centres is something that I respect. I know of many forums who kicked students from certain centres/ lineage out. Also, this forum is transparent and anyone can view it online. I like that but it also gives opportunity for people to misuse this.

Also, I have learnt that to blame others for any problem is not a solution. If you really consider yourself a real Shugden practitioners and want to do something about this problem and that it is your burden to bear, then do something more constructive. You are also making it difficult for the people who manage this website, for the mission statement already stated their stance/ principles and please do respect them for their belief because they are the people who PAID and MANAGED the website. What if the sponsors are students of His Holiness the Dalai Lama? I am sure if they are pissed off, they could just pull the plug of the funds, then what? Are you going to sponsor this website and its works?

Please if you really feel the need, go and complain at the Dalai Lama's website, and the Tibetan Government's website, perhaps that will draw their attention for real, instead of trying to bombard this website, which doesn't welcome bashing of Dalai Lama. It is not good for people to come to this definitive website of Dorje Shugden to find that Shugden practitioners are just Dalai Lama haters and are here to complain about the Dalai Lama. It doesn't help your/ ours and anybody's practice.

I agree with beggar, if you really do care about the Shugden problem (and not just use it as a platform to complain and bash His Holiness the Dalai Lama), please think about how you can make a difference. There are so many constructive ways to bring about positive changes instead of complaining and blaming.

Since you are passionate about writing, I hope you can help fight for Shugden practitioners rights by writing to these people here : http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.0
 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 05:30:59 PM by Vajraprotector »

thaimonk

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2010, 05:35:30 PM »
So you're now censoring the correct view that the Dalai Lama has caused the Dorje Shugden problem?

You're in denial of the truth.  Not good.

I'm disappointed to find that you would actively censor correct views.  It's disconcertingly similar to what the Dalai Lama is doing against Dorje Shugden.

The problem is, the more you try to protect the Dalai Lama's reputation (which seems very political to me), the more I feel inclined to tell the truth.  So let's have no more 'let's not bash the Dalai Lama' threads and we can maintain the status quo.



Since you are passionate about writing, I hope you can help fight for Shugden practitioners rights by writing to these people here : http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.0
 


Very good idea...great idea. Write to the Dalai Lama and his cronies directly. Please do. I pray for your success.


thaimonk

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2010, 06:10:05 PM »
This is a good one I got from Facebook. It's never too late! If this could happen, a open joining of two powerful forces, Dalai lama and King Shugden. It couldn't be surpassed.

dsiluvu

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Re: Dalai Lama Bashing
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2010, 07:59:56 PM »
Ha ha ha ... very NICE Thaimonk!

It would be so awesome if we see this happening for real one day. I guess we all deep down inside wish this can happen soooon. Well there is already so much disharmony happening due to the lake of  wisdom and skillful means, we really don't need to drag Dorje Shugden's name in to the mud by showing we are better because that would mean we are just the same as those Tibetans that condemn DS.

I love this forum as it presents a non-bias approach and not allowing ppl to create more negative karma from slandering Dalai Lama or any Lamas for that matter.

Of course all those here are here because they disagree with the Ban.