Author Topic: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra  (Read 10877 times)

Big Uncle

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Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« on: September 10, 2010, 05:52:13 PM »
I have read a little about Dharma Protectors in the past and I have come to conclude that the Dharma Protector practice arose alongside the development of Tantra in ancient Indian Buddhist culture. I have noticed that many of the old Protectors of India like 4-face Mahakala, Kalarupa, Citipati etc are specific Protectors of relevant Tantras like Chakrasamvara, Vajrabhairava and Vajrayogini Tantras. I also noticed that Dharma Protectors are not as emphasized by other Buddhist Mahayana cultures of China, Vietnam, Korea etc.

In other words, there is a possibility that the Dharma Protector Practice arose because of Tantra in Buddhism. Now that I have established this point, I would like to explore the role the Dharma Protectors in the practice of Tantra. Tantra is basically likened to a bullet-speed method towards achieving enlightenment. Everybody knows that and everybody knows that a fast pace track to enlightenment is full of pitfalls, obstacles and wrought with danger due to purification at a massive rate needed to achieve enlightenment. Therefore, special guardians, emanations of Buddhas are needed to assist us because our negative karma is just so strong especially when we are engaging in the practice of Tantra that can change the landscape of our current and future lives.

On the other hand, powerful Protectors are associated with specific lineage to protect the core instructions of that lineage as it brings about swift enlightenment. Dorje Shugden came into existence as such a Protector to protect Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition and to make it grow. Lama Tsongkhapa was the master of the Tantras and specifically the highest Tantras of all the existing tradition of his time. Therefore, Dorje Shugden leads all practitioners regardless of lineage towards the mastery of the higher Tantras.

Vajraprotector

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 08:27:15 PM »
Thank you Big Uncle for your enlightening post. I really like coming to the forum because I can learn many things (and ask stupid questions  ;D ).

So far from my own opinion as a Buddhist who started in Mahayana Buddhism many years ago, I do know the more popular Dharma protectors, but they are not specific to a lineage or certain Tantra.

I would like to share some of the more popular Mahayana Dharma protectors in the Chinese Buddhism pantheon:


a) Skanda  & Sangharama
- Both of them are usually depicted on doors of monastery as guardians of the monastery
- Skanda,  leader of the twenty-four celestial guardian deities mentioned in the Golden Light Sutra.
- Sangharama (personified as the historical general Guan Yu). In Chinese sutras, his image is found at the end of the sutra, a reminder of his vow to protect and preserve the teachings.


b)  Four Heavenly Kings
- They are four guardian gods, each of whom watches over one cardinal direction of the world

Vajraprotector

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 10:34:07 AM »
Hey Big Uncle,
(ok another instance of questions  :P)

I thought about the Lamrim, and thought about what you have mentioned re protectors arising due to their need to protect the Tantra. I heard there are specific protectors of the Lamrim.

I hope you can share a bit re the protectors of the Lamrim (and perhaps the history) if you know them?

beggar

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2010, 04:53:05 PM »
Dorje Shugden came into existence as such a Protector to protect Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition and to make it grow. Lama Tsongkhapa was the master of the Tantras and specifically the highest Tantras of all the existing tradition of his time. Therefore, Dorje Shugden leads all practitioners regardless of lineage towards the mastery of the higher Tantras.

More specifically, Dorje Shugden arose (or was asked to arise by Nechung), to protect Lama Tsongkhapa’s teachings on Nagarjuna’s Middle View (on emptiness). So this is often confused with Dorje Shugden become a “sectarian protector” although this is not the case. It is to protect a certain set of teachings from being lost or degenerated.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2010, 05:05:14 PM »
Dear Big Uncle

Thank you for this sharing - it makes sense to me why Dharma Protectors seem to be more prevalent in the Vajrayana tradition as opposed to the other traditions, even though I believe that Dharma Protectors originally came from the great monasteries of India and is not a Tibetan 'invention'.

Re sectarianism, it's interesting that I was just reading today an article in this website on the Oracle (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1127), and it says that "Phagri itself has many traditions and Dharmapala Dorje Shugden is protector to all families there, irrespective of their traditions. [That doesn’t sound very sectarian…if he wasn’t a protector, would he help everyone?]" - the comment in brackets is from the article, and not mine, though i do agree with it!

Later on in the same article, the oracle says that "I stayed at Buxa for ten years at the request of the officials of His Holiness and served as an oracle. Whenever there was a major decision to be made I was consulted, irrespective of any tradition posing the questions." - more proof that Dorje Shugden is unbiased in his advice to all.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 05:08:43 PM by WisdomBeing »
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Big Uncle

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2010, 05:43:28 PM »
Hey Big Uncle,
(ok another instance of questions  :P)

I thought about the Lamrim, and thought about what you have mentioned re protectors arising due to their need to protect the Tantra. I heard there are specific protectors of the Lamrim.

I hope you can share a bit re the protectors of the Lamrim (and perhaps the history) if you know them?

Dear Vajraprotector,

There are three main protectors of the Lamrim and they are 6-armed Mahakala, Vaishravana and Kalarupa. They respectively protect Highest, Middle and Lowest scope of the Lamrim. Apparently, they arose and sworn before Lama Tsongkhapa to protect the Lamrim teachings. Hence, people who engage in meditational retreats of each of the three scopes propitiates the individual Protectors to clear obstacles and realisations into the scope of the retreat.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2010, 05:55:29 PM »
Going back to the topic of Dorje Shugden and tantra, is Dorje Shugden practice itself tantric? I had just mentioned in another thread that I had been told that Dorje Shugden initiations were tantric but I don't know anything else about that. I'd appreciate anyone else's opinion.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Helena

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2010, 06:04:23 PM »
I am of the opinion that every road leads to the same destination, but what road we each individual choose would depend very much on our own "preferences". So, in other words, I can loosely translate that meaning to our own karma, affinity and merits.

As each individual's karma and merits would vary from one another, I would imagine the same holds for one's affinity with a certain Buddha, Deity, Protector and Yidam.

Hence, which 'path' we pick would be determined by all of these.

If we have the merits to meet a Guru of a certain lineage, we must have created the causes for that to happen from previous lives. Sometimes, we may have the karma to meet but not the merits to sustain that Guru-Disciple relationship - Vajrayana.

As all schools of Buddhism teaches the same thing and the ultimate goal is Enlightenment - I seriously see no REAL sectarianism. The only bias that would arise would only come from our own minds - certainly not from the Buddha's mind or any Enlightened Beings' minds.

As we, the un-enlightened mortals hold too much duality in our perception, hence prejudices arise instead of the understanding that everything is ONE and the SAME.

Frankly, as long as we are still so attached to this and that, preferring one to other - I do not see that Buddhas and Enlightened Beings have any other choice than to emanate as many various forms and ways as possible. Otherwise, it will end up with only a small fraction of samsara's whole population who would get to be Enlightened. The rest who holds other "preferences" will never get the chance to escape this maddening vicious cycle.

I am not sure if my explanation makes sense, but that is how I would see it.

All Buddhas and Enlightened Beings emanate for our sake and hence, they have to find the best ways to reach out to us.

As varied as we are, so must the ways and the various forms - be it Guru, Protector or Yidam.
  
Helena

Helena

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2010, 06:10:07 PM »
I'd just like to add that - not forgetting at different times, different Buddhas would emanate.

I guess, again, timing is also very important, as everything does evolve.

Hence, we have the Buddhas of the Past, Present and Future.

Dorje Shugden is well known to be the Protector of Our Time. So, it must mean we hold the strongest affinity with him at this time.

And where Dorje Shugden leads us all is to the ultimate goal, which is none other than Enlightenment - so, how is that really different from any other school of Buddhism, or any other religion per say?

Is that not one and the same?

We all study religion and spirituality to achieve higher realizations and to be free from suffering.

In this respect, I can appreciate and do see that Dorje Shugden is the Universal Protector.
Helena

DSFriend

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2010, 12:03:52 AM »
Nechung was a general protector while Duldzin promised to arise when the time was right to protect Nagarjuna's middle view. Big Uncle also mentioned the various protectors of the Lamrim which I appreciated very much.
Is it correct to say that enlightened Protectors can be universal protectors but because they manifest for specific reasons, we propitiate them only for that specific reason?

Big Uncle

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2010, 11:54:36 PM »
Going back to the topic of Dorje Shugden and tantra, is Dorje Shugden practice itself tantric? I had just mentioned in another thread that I had been told that Dorje Shugden initiations were tantric but I don't know anything else about that. I'd appreciate anyone else's opinion.

Dear WisdomBeing,

I believe it is part of Tantric practice as Protector practice is meant to support our Tantric practice but it is not the core practice. Tantric practice is codified in a certain order so one can propitiate and relate with a Yidam. A Yidam practice is called a Sadhana while Protector propitiation is codified in another way to request assistance and is called a Kangsur. The presentation of the practice does not reflect that Yidams are more enlightened or higher than Enlightened Protectors.

Since the Dorje Shugden himself is enlightened and someone on this forum and I believe it was TK that suggested maybe a great lineage master or Dorje Shugden himself through an oracle can compose a Sadhana to propitiate Dorje Shugden as a yidam. I thought that was such a brilliant idea and I believe being closer to us both physically and karmically, Dorje Shugden's Sadhana practice would mean that we can grow attainments faster.

DSFriend

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 06:59:41 AM »
Thank you for the info Big Uncle. I was under the impression that dharma protectors assist/protect us in our dharma practice in general. I did not know that it's meant to support us in our tantric practice. I'd like to read up more on this if you have any references.

Logically, I can reason it out as Dorje Shugden's lineage came from highly attained tantric masters n scholars! Thus, he will assist us to realise Nagarjuna's middle view as well as to attain the qualities his lineage embodies.

Helena

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 07:24:35 AM »
With Dharma Protectors helping us with our Dharma and Tantric Practice, we will always have aid in our path towards Enlightenment.

If through the oracle, one can compose a Yidam practice of Dorje Shugden, then it is indeed very exciting.

I agree with what Big Uncle says, if it is indeed true and possible, then we will be able to gain attainments much faster. Then we all get out of samsara sooner than later.

That gives me much hope to look forward to.
Helena

Big Uncle

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2010, 05:03:24 AM »
Thank you for the info Big Uncle. I was under the impression that dharma protectors assist/protect us in our dharma practice in general. I did not know that it's meant to support us in our tantric practice. I'd like to read up more on this if you have any references.

Logically, I can reason it out as Dorje Shugden's lineage came from highly attained tantric masters n scholars! Thus, he will assist us to realise Nagarjuna's middle view as well as to attain the qualities his lineage embodies.

Dear DSFriend,

I don't have references right now but it is clear that as long as you propitiate Dorje Shugden, your goal should be to gain merits and purify enough to become a Buddha. All practices recommended by our lineage Lamas are Tantric practices ie Lama Tsongkhapa's Guru Yoga, various lower Tantric Yidam Sadhanas and they are meant to prepare us to receive the highest yoga Tantric practices like Yamantaka, Vajrayogini, Heruka or Guhyasamaja.

In our time and karma, only the highest yoga Tantric system is potent enough for us to gain quick attainments. Even if we don't make it, we either ascend to their pure realms like Kechara Paradise for Vajrayogini/ Heruka practitioners or meet the same practice in another life to continue on. In other words, praying to Dorje Shugden directly and indirectly leads us towards these practices, finding a Lama with correct lineage and ultimately receiving the practice and gain attainments.

shugdenprotect

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Re: Dharma Protectors, Dorje Shugden and Tantra
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2010, 03:27:53 PM »
Thank you very much for the generous sharing of information and views on this thread.

From the last comment by Big Uncle, it would seem like all the work that is being done by all the kind Gurus for their students is to put all of us on the path towards the highest yoga Tantric practice because this is the only method for us, during this degenerate time, to gain the merits required to achieve the ultimate goal of enlightenment.

Can it, therefore, be summarized that in this “perfect” system:

1)   The Yidam practice is to develop our mind with pure Dharma education, understanding and practice, which leads to collection of merits and positive karma.
2)   The Protector practice is to remove all outer, inner and secret obstacles so that we will achieve attainments from our Yidam practice.
3)   The highest yoga Tantric practice is the ultimate nectar that will:
a.   Lead us directly to enlightenment or
b.   Give us access to the pure lands where we get to practice under conducive conditions until we achieve enlightenment (unlike the distracting conditions of samsara).

If my understanding is somewhat accurate, this once again reiterates the kindness of the Guru, Buddha and Sangha community who work tirelessly for the benefit of all sentient beings.