The 'cult' of Dorje Shugden

[triesa]

Dorje Shugden School of buddhism may become a school of its own. Look at Shar Gaden now, the loyal monks who are DS practitioners broke out from Ganden Monastery, many high Lamas join in the new camp including the ex 101th Ganden Tripa, they held regular DS pujas there, I feel that the school of DS may flourish into something very unique, like another brand of buddhism, but not cultish though........

[pgdharma]

You are right, triesa. Another school of Buddhism is arising. As we can very well see, Shar Gaden is one of them. Dorje Shugden will be the new age Buddha for new age practitioners. I feel that since Dorje Shugden is very swift in clearing our worldly obstacles, he protects us and grants our wishes so this practice will be more effective for people our time.

[triesa]

Yes, look at Shar Gaden, even though the monks there cannot attend the tantric college of Gyuto and Gyume,
but they are studying tantra with their individual teachers at Shar Gaden, and many of the texts that are iememorized are tantric in nature, which is quite different from the other Gelug monasteries.
They also study tantra based on a text written by Panchen Sonam Drakpa on the 13 diety Yamantaka system, as well as a text by the 101st Gaden Tripa, Lungri Namgyal Rinpoche, based on the solitary hero Yamantaka system, as what I read form the thread "News from Shar Gaden"

Therefore, Shar Gaden has no choice but in time would develop their own systems of study because they cannot access to the tantric colleges.

Different circumstances calls for different methods, though without comprising the pure and traditional teachings.
So we are about to see a new brand of buddhism arising here through Dorije Shugden.

[Helena]

As painful and challenging adversities are - they truly push us to a higher level. Because we are so comfortable in our own idea of security and convenience, we can become too stuck in that comfort zone. But once things are thrown up side down, inside out - then it leaves us no choice but to start thinking beyond our previously held ordinary levels of "performance".

Here, 'performance' is generalised into everything that we do, say and think.

They do say that in times of great uncertainty and challenges, ordinary things have the greatest chance of becoming so much more - if people actually see it that way and allow it to take place.

Unfortunately, because many are governed by fear, insecurity, sadness, etc - they become paralysed by these negativities. And instead of moving on and forging ahead, they just dwell on the negativities.

This is why I love the Dharma and the life story of Dorje Shugden. Our magnificent King Protector has never allowed challenges and adversity to define him.

In fact, Dorje Shugden re-defines everything else around him and can even make an oasis out of the desert.

To me, Dorje Shugden is the ultimate story of Hope. Living Hope. Hope in Action.

No matter what Dorje Shugden has been put through, he still rises like the sun - ever so bright, like a beacon cutting through the confusion and darkness.

If this is a 'cult', then may it be a cult that infects the rest of the world. Because people can't live without hope. Everyone needs hope to live on and to continue to dream.

[hope rainbow]

I was told by my Teacher that the protection and guidance we receive from holy beings and protectors does not necessarily take the form we anticipate or expect, but it is still protection for it is meant to protect the Dharma and those that walk by the Dharma and act to propitiate it.

I have wondered for a long time why Tibet was lost to "non-Dharmic forces", how could "evil" win, how could this "bad scenario" unfold otherwise?
Was it that the collective bad karma of the tibetans was too strong?
Or was it that the situation in Tibet offered a platform for the Dharma to grow global, for the Vajrayana teachings to operate from a tibetan diaspora of Perfect Teachers, teaching from the USA, from Europe, from India, Australia, etcetera...
What would it be of these teachings today without this diaspora and the world's attention that Tibetan cause and The Dalai Lama got for decades now?
Everyone in the develloped countries knows of The Dalai Lama, knows of tibetan buddhism, before they would even know the name of their own prime minister... I find this totally extra-ordinary, knowing that The Dalai Lama is actually Chenrezig.
And of course, now the situation also allows for Dorje Shugden to become world famous too.

This is also a remarquable example of how to turn problems into opportunities.
Evn us now here debating about Dorje Shugden, some call it a cult or what, participate to this effort to bring sentient beins to the LAMRIM.
This is skillful means in action. NEAT!

[Vajraprotector]

I was told by my Teacher that the protection and guidance we receive from holy beings and protectors does not necessarily take the form we anticipate or expect, but it is still protection for it is meant to protect the Dharma and those that walk by the Dharma and act to propitiate it.

I have wondered for a long time why Tibet was lost to "non-Dharmic forces", how could "evil" win, how could this "bad scenario" unfold otherwise?
Was it that the collective bad karma of the tibetans was too strong?
Or was it that the situation in Tibet offered a platform for the Dharma to grow global, for the Vajrayana teachings to operate from a tibetan diaspora of Perfect Teachers, teaching from the USA, from Europe, from India, Australia, etcetera...
What would it be of these teachings today without this diaspora and the world's attention that Tibetan cause and The Dalai Lama got for decades now?

I agree with you hope rainbow. Due to our own ignorance, we cannot really judge whether certain incident/ event/ happening is good or bad, and choose to only see something through our own perception/ judgement. I remember being told that whether it is good or bad karma, it is not the condition of the situation, but rather the results of it.

There are wiser beings out there who have the ability to judge better, if we do not believe in clairvoyance, at least we can believe that they have a better grasp of the law of cause & effect and the reality of things due to their studies. How can so many great masters of the Gelug lineage who has returned again and again be wrong?

Also, it s characteristic of a cult to unquestioningly follow a charismatic leader and to have no freedom as to what to practice. If I choose to believe Dalai Lama's words without examining it, then I am in the Dalai Lama's "cult". Dalai Lama has been inconsistent with his reasons to ban Shugden and did not want to discuss the real reason behind it despite appearls and protests.

On the other hand, many great masters continue to practice, upholding their promise to their Guru and propogating the lineage. Dorje Shugden is not a cult, because there are many great masters who expound the benefitsof the practice - and it is not the ONLY practice of the "cult", it is a side practice that supports the main practice of Lamrim studies, and other practices of the Gelugpa lineage. 

So now, do I choose to be in the Dalai Lama's "cult" and say that Shugden practitioners are in a cult?

[triesa]

I have wondered for a long time why Tibet was lost to "non-Dharmic forces", how could "evil" win, how could this "bad scenario" unfold otherwise?

Or was it that the situation in Tibet offered a platform for the Dharma to grow global, for the Vajrayana teachings to operate from a tibetan diaspora of Perfect Teachers, teaching from the USA, from Europe, from India, Australia, etcetera...

The loss of Tibet to China has indirectly opened up Tibetan Buddhism to the whole world. The esscense of Vajrayana has since penetrated into the lives of many followers and benefitted many practitioners, thanks to the invasion of the Chinese Red Army into the once barbaric land of Tibet. So the loss of Tibet is actually a  very good cause to spread buddhism, to reach out to a bigger and wider audience.

Like what Hope Rainbow said, problems became opportunities.

Dorje Shugden is not a "Cult" simply becasue the propitiation of this great protector leads one to the study of Lamrim, which is the essence of all buddha's teachings. The practice od Dorje Shugden only helps to clear the wordly obstacles that may hinder our spiritual path. So like what Vajraprotector said, would you like to stay in the Dalai Lama's "cult" or the Dorje Shugden's "cult"?

My answer is .....  I would stay in the Dorje Shugden's "Cult".

[hope rainbow]

I am in no cult in the sense that I am not taking refuge in an "outside power", in a "charismatic leader" or a "god".

I am taking refuge in the Buddhas, Dharma and Sangha,
I am taking refuge in my Guru devotion,
I a taking refuge in the Lamrim -gateway to the teachings that can free my mind from selfishness.

This is no cult; this leads one to liberation, not to endoctrination or enslavement, this is the opposite of a cult, it is light as opposed to darkness, it is wisdom as opposed to ignorance, it is compassion as opposed to selfishness.
The devotion to my guru is the opposite of a cult, for it has the aim for me to find my inner guru and not depend on my guru anymore.

And as a practitioner of Dorje Shugden, I rely upon the protection and guidance of a Buddha with whom I have strong affinities for quick progress on my journey to full enlightenment.
We are here talking about the dynamics of compassion at play, not of the dynamic of a "cult".

[hope rainbow]

Yeah to the 'cult' of compassion!
Yeah to the 'cult' of wisdom!

wisdom so that compassion is not limited.
compassion so that wisdom is beneficial to others.

wisdom so that we don't fool ourselves.
compassion so that we can expand our mind to encompass all space and all beings.
both so that we can get rid of sellfishness.

Dorje Shugen can show us the way.
Where is the "cult to Dorje Shugden" in this? I don't see it...

[Zach]

We are the Kadampa's old and new, Gelugpa's, pure ones through and through.
Untainted by political Degeneracy.
Inspired by this and our outcasting practise purely and use these circustances to accomplish the most profound goals. 

[Helena]

Yeah to the 'cult' of compassion!
Yeah to the 'cult' of wisdom!

wisdom so that compassion is not limited.
compassion so that wisdom is beneficial to others.

wisdom so that we don't fool ourselves.
compassion so that we can expand our mind to encompass all space and all beings.
both so that we can get rid of sellfishness.

Dorje Shugen can show us the way.

Dear HR,

I truly love what you wrote here.

What an uplifting post to read before the weekend, and after a long spell of non-stop hectic working week.

If there is really a cult of Dorje Shugden that exists - it is truly a cult that cuts self-cherishing of all manners and sins.

And if this selflessness is to be labelled as cultish or a cult - then it is certainly a cult that we all do need very badly.

Thank you for your beautiful words.

Have a wonderful weekend, everyone.

[beggar]

It is interesting to consider the many definitions of cult in the first place. And quite strange how people get very paranoid about this concept of "kowtowing" to another being / deity.

Actually, the whole world is already in a cult: the cult of ME. Everyone already has some kind of devotion TO THEMSELVES and to all those things that keep us chained to ourselves. The whole world of advertising, media, glossy magazines, television is a big, giant cult that everyone is a part of. People are slaves to fashion - they even admit it! People are 100% dependent on their self-help manuals (but this is okay because it is marketed as something trendy).

People are totally fanatical about movie stars and pop stars who don't really give them anything of real value. People literally worship these idols - if this movie star decides to wear this brand of clothes, then his/her entire following will also start to wear that brand of clothes. If that isn't cultish and following something blindly, then I don't know what is.

Sometimes, it's not even a person or animate object that people are cultish towards - sometimes, people are in cults of objects - cars, property, jewellery, clothes.. THINGS in general. We give our lives over entirely to inanimate objects - they can make our day or break our day.

People are "cultish" in their behaviour for something so much less. And for something as great as wisdom, compassion, enlightenment, people get very worried and paranoid about being in a "cult" and having to following the advice and direction of another person. How silly and limited we are!

[Ensapa]

I've just been reading A saint in Seattle: the life of the Tibetan mystic Dezhung Rinpoche and came across this quote:

After this, he reconsecrated the chapel to the deity Beg tse. He defied Shugs ldan to take revenge. When nothing happened, the frightened monks lost their faith in Shugs ldan and accepted the new protective deity.

It's the kind of thing anti-Shugden practitioners will quote to show Dorje Shugden is a vengeful spirit. But really, the cycle of misinformation and misunderstanding continues because surely:

(1) that Dorje Shugden didn't take revenge shows he hasn't got the ego of being slighted

(2) the fact the monks were frightened he would take revenge, and then lost their faith demonstrates they did not know why they were propitiating Dorje Shugden to begin with. Without a good understanding of a practice, and without having set your motivation, of course your commitment to it is going to waver like that.

It saddens me to read all this negative information about Dorje Shugden (just type in 'rDo rje shugs ldan' and see what I mean), especially when it is used next to the term 'cult' when it is clearly not.

(1) a cult is characterised by the embracement of something new, or a scripture or teaching that has been completely lost or forgotten...but Dorje Shugden is not something new, or something that has been completely lost or forgotten. It is a practice that has been around for 350 years which, granted, is relatively new compared to other practices like say, the Heart Sutra but new isn't negative. Just because something is new doesn't mean it's any less effective or beneficial. It could mean we didn't have the merit for the practice to be revealed to us much earlier; it wasn't the time for the practice to grow.

(2) a cult is more likely to be led by a charismatic leader (of the Rev Jim Jones variety)...but Pabongka is nothing like that. Yes, he is charismatic but we don't worship Pabongka Rinpoche; we aren't slaves hanging on to his every word. We practise guru devotion towards him, much like other students all over the world practise guru devotion to their teachers.

(3) a cult often integrates elements of existing religious theologies. They are also more likely to combine many sources to form more esoteric theologies...but Dorje Shugden's practice is not synthesised from many sources. It comes from one source, under Lama Tsongkhapa's throne. Even if you want to argue that it comes from more than one source (Tagphu Pemavajra, Pabongka Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche etc), what distinguishes this lineage from the lineage of other practices? Nothing, it's still from teacher to student, like other practices. Likewise, the sources are verifiable and authentic, and the level of esotericism in Dorje Shugden's practice is no more than any other practice.

Some people need to pick up a dictionary!

[Ensapa]

Seems like the forum decided to eat my comments. Sigh.

I've just been reading A saint in Seattle: the life of the Tibetan mystic Dezhung Rinpoche and came across this quote:

After this, he reconsecrated the chapel to the deity Beg tse. He defied Shugs ldan to take revenge. When nothing happened, the frightened monks lost their faith in Shugs ldan and accepted the new protective deity.

My question is, what is a sakya lama doing in trying to oust a Gelug Dharma protector? And if the monks were stable in their Dharma practice, why would they be afraid of anything in the first place? Why is there a need to oust Dorje Shugden from wherever he is "residing" in? Perhaps this Lama was just trying to show off his attainments?

It's the kind of thing anti-Shugden practitioners will quote to show Dorje Shugden is a vengeful spirit. But really, the cycle of misinformation and misunderstanding continues because surely:

(1) that Dorje Shugden didn't take revenge shows he hasn't got the ego of being slighted
I'm still surprised that nobody saw this.
(2) the fact the monks were frightened he would take revenge, and then lost their faith demonstrates they did not know why they were propitiating Dorje Shugden to begin with. Without a good understanding of a practice, and without having set your motivation, of course your commitment to it is going to waver like that.
If they gave up Dorje Shugden so easily, it shows that they have no Guru devotion. If they have no Guru devotion, then whatever protector practice that they did would be ineffective. Who else would give them the protector practice but their Gurus? Since that is the case, it is perhaps good riddance that they stopped the protector practice and become a bad example for many.

It saddens me to read all this negative information about Dorje Shugden (just type in 'rDo rje shugs ldan' and see what I mean), especially when it is used next to the term 'cult' when it is clearly not.
The word cult can come to mean any organized religion at all.
cult
? ?[kuhlt] Show IPA
noun
1.
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.
the object of such devotion.
4.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

So, lets not get overly attached to words even if this one has a negative connotation.


(1) a cult is characterised by the embracement of something new, or a scripture or teaching that has been completely lost or forgotten...but Dorje Shugden is not something new, or something that has been completely lost or forgotten. It is a practice that has been around for 350 years which, granted, is relatively new compared to other practices like say, the Heart Sutra but new isn't negative. Just because something is new doesn't mean it's any less effective or beneficial. It could mean we didn't have the merit for the practice to be revealed to us much earlier; it wasn't the time for the practice to grow.
Dorje Shugden practice is neither old nor new, but a cult basically implies that the specific practice or religious branch is harmful. But is that the case with Dorje Shugden? Of course not. Then how can it be a cult?

(2) a cult is more likely to be led by a charismatic leader (of the Rev Jim Jones variety)...but Pabongka is nothing like that. Yes, he is charismatic but we don't worship Pabongka Rinpoche; we aren't slaves hanging on to his every word. We practise guru devotion towards him, much like other students all over the world practise guru devotion to their teachers.
I dont think we worship Pabongkha Rinpoche in that way. Pabongkha Rinpoche is the forefather of the current generation of Gelug masters and we respect him and his attainments as such. Worshipping Pabongkha is studying the Lamrim and putting it into practice. We are not "worshipping" Pabongkha per se. So how can it be a cult?

(3) a cult often integrates elements of existing religious theologies. They are also more likely to combine many sources to form more esoteric theologies...but Dorje Shugden's practice is not synthesised from many sources. It comes from one source, under Lama Tsongkhapa's throne. Even if you want to argue that it comes from more than one source (Tagphu Pemavajra, Pabongka Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche etc), what distinguishes this lineage from the lineage of other practices? Nothing, it's still from teacher to student, like other practices. Likewise, the sources are verifiable and authentic, and the level of esotericism in Dorje Shugden's practice is no more than any other practice.
Dorje Shugden is Gelug and Gelug is famous for logic and reasoning. Therefore, all of Gelug's teachings including Dorje Shugden can be debated and proven upon. Again, how can that be a cult?

Some people need to pick up a dictionary!
It's really just words and how it is phrased...

Sometimes, I feel that those from the other lineages should not criticize Dorje Shugden. Why? because they are not Gelug, they do not understand the practice and more importantly, they will never get his practice so it is none of their business. So why get involved, unless you are insecure of your own tradition and attainments, that a Gelug only protector can harm you? Hmmmmm

[Tenzin Malgyur]

Dear beggar, you are so wise to point out that we are all in one big cult and yet not realize it. Then some get very paranoid when someone mentioned to them they are practicing a religion which someone else label a cult. It's about time we open our eyes and mind to see and decide for ourselves what is being told to us. It is also very important to listen to one's Guru, for we know a Guru's sole intention is to guide us to enlightenment. I am so thankful to this website for all the news and information to help me decide if want to continue with my DS practice or not. I am going with DS all the way.