Who is the Protector of the Gaden tradition?

[Big Uncle]

I know, all of us will say it is Dorje Shugden but before Dorje Shugden came into the picture, who was was it? If I am not mistaken, it is Kalarupa or Chogyal in Tibetan. He is relied as the principle Dharma Protector of the Gaden tradition. The Dratsang of Gaden Monastery or the combined Jangsey and Shartsey colleges propitiates Kalarupa as it's main Protector. So I assume that means it is the principle Protector of the Gaden tradition. Am I right?

[jessicajameson]

Setrap Protector (being the wrathful emanation of Buddha Amitabha) has been the protector for Ganden Shartse Monastery for many hundreds of years, no? Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen relied on Setrap as his dharma protector...I'm just assuming that before DS became the main protector of the Gaden tradition, it was Setrap.

Your question followed by your post is a little misleading thought. Asking who is the current (subject), then asking who was before DS (post) ...or is that just my silly little mind thinking that it's conflicting

[triesa]

Setrap Protector (being the wrathful emanation of Buddha Amitabha) has been the protector for Ganden Shartse Monastery for many hundreds of years, no? Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen relied on Setrap as his dharma protector...I'm just assuming that before DS became the main protector of the Gaden tradition, it was Setrap.

Setrap is the current protector of Ganden Shartse Monastery, and has been protector for over 600 years I believe.

If you are familiar with the mandala of Dorje Shugden, Setrap is in the mandala of DS. And even in our serkym (black tea) offering prayers to Dorje Shugden, there are also black tea offering verses for Setrap. The two protectors work hand in hand:-)

[WisdomBeing]

That's an interesting question. I agree witih Jessica that your question is rather confusing. Are you asking who is the current protector or who came before DS?

If you're asking who is the current protector, then i would say Dorje Shugden of course. Whether he is in the closet or not, he is definitely the uncommon protector of the Gelug tradition.

However, if you're asking about who was before Dorje Shugden, since Gaden was founded in the 15th Century and Dorje Shugden only manifested 350 years ago, technically Dorje Shugden was not the Protector of the Gelug until he manifested. So before would be Setrab, as suggested earlier, or Palden Lhamo, who is the chief protector deity for Ganden Jangtse college. I also read that Palden Lhamo is also a chief Protector practice for Drepung Lachi.

Also,
"Vaishravana has zero conflicts with Dorje Shugden. Vaishravana is not the only protector of the great Tashi Lunpo institution. In fact one of the primary protectors of Panchen Lamas is Four Faced Mahakala. Four Faced Mahakala was the principle protector of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen.

Four Faced Mahakala has a very close and intimate relationship with Dorje Shugden. Dorje Shugden, Maha Setrap and Four Faced Mahakala are very close and have very close links to eachother. In fact Setrap resides on the 1st floor of Dorje Shugden's divine palace and on the floor above that is Amitabha."

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=745.0

So after all that, i don't know if there was a definitive single Protector of the Gaden tradition in the similar role as Dorje Shugden is, prior to his manifesting.

[Big Uncle]

Yes, I agree. It was confusing so I have altered the subject. But bear in mind that Dorje Shugden was not officially accepted as the Protector of the Gaden tradition. Well, at least not yet. However, Setrap is the Protector of Gaden Shartse Monastery and not Protector of the Gaden tradition. You see, Gaden Jangse's Protector is Palden Lhamo while Protector Gaden Dratsang like I mentioned before is Chogyal or Kalarupa. I also heard that he is the Protector of the Gaden tradition and often manifested to Lama Tsongkhapa personally in order to assist him. I wonder how the changing of the Protectors is going to take place.

[WisdomBeing]

i was doing some research and came across this article (http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/study/history_buddhism/buddhism_tibet/gelug/brief_history_gyumay_gyuto_tantric_college.html)

A Brief History of Gyumay and Gyuto
Lower and Upper Tantric Colleges

Alexander Berzin, 1991
expanded September 2003

Original version published in "Gelug Monasteries." Chö-Yang, Year of Tibet Edition (Dharamsala, India), (1991).

In one of Tsongkhapa’s (rJe Tsong-kha-pa Blo-bzang grags-pa) (1357-1419) previous lives, when he was a small boy, Buddha gave him a conch shell. He also presented him a mask of the Dharma protector Chogyel (Chos-rgyal) and a skull-club. Buddha’s disciple Maudgalyayana buried all of them in Tibet for the future. Many centuries later, Tsongkhapa unearthed them from a hill behind Ganden Monastery.

In 1419, after Tsongkhapa taught his Four Combined Commentaries to the Guhyasamaja Tantra (gSang-‘dus ‘brel-ba bzhi-sbrags) at Sera Choding (Se-ra Chos-sdings) retreat, he asked who among his disciples would take care of his tantric teachings. Gyu Sherab-senggey (rGyud Shes-rab seng-ge) (1383-1445) volunteered, and Tsongkhapa entrusted to him his copy of the text he had just taught, the mask of Chogyel, and the skull-club he had unearthed. He also entrusted him with his skull-cup inner offering bowl, a statue of Guhyasamaja (gSang-ba ‘dus-pa), and seven special tangka (thang-ka) scroll paintings. Later that year, Tsongkhapa passed away.

-------------------------------------------------------

I had never heard that Buddha also sent a mask and club together with the conch shell to be buried in Gaden.

Interesting.

[hope rainbow]

The "mask" an the "skull-club" are new to me too...
I would very much like to know the significance.

[Big Uncle]

Hmmm that is highly unusual as I have never heard of it and I thought Cham (monastic dance rituals) was indigenous of Tibet. I say this because masks were used in such ritual dances and I have never heard of one being done in India before. This is probably the first record I heard of such dances being performed in India and during such an early period as Lord Buddha's time. Well, whatever it is, it sounds pretty incredible. I just realise how little we know of the practice of Kalarupa. Did you guys know that there are 3 forms of Kalarupa? Outer (the commonly scene), inner and secret Kalarupa? I only know of their existence because they are traditionally drawn at the bottom of a Guru Tree.

[DSFriend]

I'd be interested to know more about kalarupa. What happened to Kalarupa. Was he already enlightened back then when he was the main protector of the gaden tradition? If not, is he now?

[beggar]

But bear in mind that Dorje Shugden was not officially accepted as the Protector of the Gaden tradition. Well, at least not yet. However, Setrap is the Protector of Gaden Shartse Monastery and not Protector of the Gaden tradition. You see, Gaden Jangse's Protector is Palden Lhamo while Protector Gaden Dratsang like I mentioned before is Chogyal or Kalarupa. I also heard that he is the Protector of the Gaden tradition and often manifested to Lama Tsongkhapa personally in order to assist him. I wonder how the changing of the Protectors is going to take place.

Yes, what you have said is correct. I believe Dorje Shugden was never officially titled or referred to as the Protector of the Gaden tradition or the Gelug tradition. What Big Uncle says about the different protectors of the different monasteries is also correct. Remember that Dorje Shugden arose as a protector to guard the teachings of Nagarjuna's Middle way as taught by Lama Tsongkhapa and not specifically to protect the Gelugpas /Gadenpas only. This is where mistaken views arise which claim that  Dorje Shugden is a sectarian Protector, which of course is not possible.

[Helena]

Thank you, Beggar, for that clarification.

I think that helps to dispel the common misconception that Dorje Shugden is sectarian.

In fact, most High Lamas who practise Dorje Shugden, have themselves been reincarnated as many different lamas of different schools of Buddhism in the past and present. Some were previously from the Karmapas, Sakyas, Nyingmas, etc.

Not all of them were from Gelugpas in all their lines of incarnation.

Hence, it is truly not about which sect Dorje Shugden protects. It is more about what Dorje Shugden protects.

In the end, what Dojre Shugden truly 'exterminates' is selfishness and ignorance. And that is what every Buddhist teaching is combating - regardless of which tradition or school it is.

I am inclined to think that Dorje Shugden protects anyone who wishes to sincerely practise Buddhism and who needs help in eliminating their obstacles in their spiritual path.

Hence, I have no trouble believing that Dorje Shugden could indeed become a Universal Protector of Buddhism.

[WisdomBeing]

Also Dorje Shugden initially went to the Sakyas to be their Protector.

Although when Nechung originally asked Duldzin to manifest as an uncommon Protector of Nagarjuna's Middle View as taught by Tsongkhapa, he (Nechung) said that he couldn't fulfil that because he was already the general protector for Tibet.

I am also curious why it would be Nechung - an unenlightened Protector - who comes to tell Duldzin this message. Why not send an enlightened thus more believable and trustworthy being. At that time, there were other Protectors who could easily have conveyed the message. This reminds me that i had asked on another thread why Nechung became the state oracle instead of an enlightened Protector - does anyone know?

[pgdharma]

Setrap Protector (being the wrathful emanation of Buddha Amitabha) has been the protector for Ganden Shartse Monastery for many hundreds of years, no? Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen relied on Setrap as his dharma protector...I'm just assuming that before DS became the main protector of the Gaden tradition, it was Setrap.

Setrap is the current protector of Ganden Shartse Monastery, and has been protector for over 600 years I believe.

If you are familiar with the mandala of Dorje Shugden, Setrap is in the mandala of DS. And even in our serkym (black tea) offering prayers to Dorje Shugden, there are also black tea offering verses for Setrap. The two protectors work hand in hand:-)

[/quote] Yes  triesa, I agree with you. Both Dorje Shugden and Setrap work hand in hand. However, Dorje Shugden is still in the closet and time will tell when Dorje Shugden - The Uncommon Protector who cannot be silenced will return. He is waiting for the right time...

[Vajraprotector]

Also Dorje Shugden initially went to the Sakyas to be their Protector.

Although when Nechung originally asked Duldzin to manifest as an uncommon Protector of Nagarjuna's Middle View as taught by Tsongkhapa, he (Nechung) said that he couldn't fulfil that because he was already the general protector for Tibet.

I agree with Wisdom Being about the above. I have not heard of any protector of Gaden lineage, may be someone could shed a light?

I've read before from A Brief History of Ganden Monastery, by Alexander Berzin-  Original version published in
"Gelug Monasteries." Chö-Yang, Year of Tibet Edition (Dharamsala, India, 1991).
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/study/history_buddhism/buddhism_tibet/gelug/brief_history_ganden_monastery.html

The special protector of the Common Assembly of Ganden Monastery as a whole (Lachi) is Chogyel (Dharmaraja). The special protector of Ganden Jangtsey is Pelden Lhamo. The special protector of Ganden Shartsey is Setrab/ Setrap.

The special protector of the Common Assembly of Drepung is Nechung, that of Drepung Losel-ling is also Nechung, and that of Drepung Gomang is Six-Armed Mahakala.

The special protector of the Common Assembly of Sera is Jamsing, that of Sera Jey is also Jamsing as well as the Yangsang ( Especially Hidden) form of Hayagriva, and that of Sera May is Teu.

Perhaps when Shugden was referred to as protector of Ganden tradition or lineage, it refers to the Gaden ear-whispered lineage, known as  ‘Gaden oral tradition’ or ‘Ensa ear-whispered lineage’ - it means Je Tsongkhapa’s madhyamika teachings, the way he taught Nagarjuna’s philosophy for our time as contained in the ‘Great Gaden Emanation Scripture’, through which practices can result in enlightenment in a single lifetime.

[Helena]

Thank you to everyone who really took time to research and explain. All these add to the discussion in this thread.

I have gained much knowledge and information from this particular thread alone.

I guess if a Protector removes all our obstacles in order to practice a lineage, tradition or practice better - then, technically, they are all Protectors of the lineage. Whether they are formally labelled as such or not. Without practitioners practising the true practice, every lineage/tradition will die.

To me, whether a Protector is hailed as the Protector of Gaden Tradition or not is not as important to me at this point. But the Protector who can remove my obstacles so that I can continue to become a better Gelugpa practitioner worthy of holding the precious teachings that my Guru has kindly shared with me, and has passed on to me.

Without any of us (regardless of which school of Buddhism or tradition we belong to) being a suitable vessel to hold all our Gurus' oral transmissions and teachings, then nothing can continue. It will end with our Gurus.

Just look at Trijang Rinpoche's bio - it is because he was the most appropriate and suitable vessel - Pabongka Rinpoche could pass on everything to a single disciple. And from that one single disciple, the teachings could spread to the whole wide world. That amazes and inspires me each and every time I read about Trijang Rinpoche.

May we all truly become suitable and appropriate vessels for our Gurus and for our tradition to flourish.