NKT REGULATIONS?

[thaimonk]

(2616) Anonymous
13 November 2010 15:46:52     

I'm an ex-NKT member. I dropped out because we were told to go for protests against the Dalai Lama and not to question as it is the teacher's instructions. My parents and friends found the protests very disturbing and why I would be involved in it. I wrote to head office but no one replied my emails re why we have to be so political.

Geshe Kelsang's own root Guru Trijang Rinpoche has moderate views about Dalai Lama and shouldn't that be the example?

I didn't like the protests at all. I join NKT to learn and practice dharma and it was good until the protests.

While in NKT, we are discouraged to go on the internet, forums, discussions and the likes as it waste time. If we went on it, it is bad karma as we are going against the teacher's advice.

Has that policy changed? I see a few NKT people on the forum. They stand out clearly as they are always undharmically speaking against the Dalai Lama. To them he is like the Anti-christ or something. Their rhetoric is very distinctive.I find this part of the organization very uncomfortable. EVERYTHING IS ELSE IS VERY GOOD TO ME.

Anonymous
source: guestbook
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Should this person listen to the Guru or their own 'wisdom'?

[Zach]

Not everyone speaks Undharmically about the DL.
I went protesting with the others my motivation was compassion for those suffering, Of course I would have prefered a symbolic silent protest.
If one believes in this bigger picture then you would know we have a part to play In helping spread Dorje shugdens name throughout the world the Dalai lamas actions set the stage for the spread and the protests set it in motion.

Or if you do not take to this view it is in my specific opinion that it is a Fundemental human right for people to have freedom to practise without people creating hindrances for them, So regardless of which one you choose to believe geshe-la said that if you could not refrain from getting angry you should certainly not go to them because it wasnt about becoming angry with the Dalai lama it was requesting him to listen as he has continually ignored all requests for dialouge.

Many people didnt want to protest and thats fair enough no one forces you to do anything you dont like but for those who did the majority of us went and generated compassion before engaing in such actions.

[WisdomBeing]

Not everyone speaks Undharmically about the DL.
I went protesting with the others my motivation was compassion for those suffering, Of course I would have prefered a symbolic silent protest.
If one believes in this bigger picture then you would know we have a part to play In helping spread Dorje shugdens name throughout the world the Dalai lamas actions set the stage for the spread and the protests set it in motion.

Or if you do not take to this view it is in my specific opinion that it is a Fundemental human right for people to have freedom to practise without people creating hindrances for them, So regardless of which one you choose to believe geshe-la said that if you could not refrain from getting angry you should certainly not go to them because it wasnt about becoming angry with the Dalai lama it was requesting him to listen as he has continually ignored all requests for dialouge.

Many people didnt want to protest and thats fair enough no one forces you to do anything you dont like but for those who did the majority of us went and generated compassion before engaing in such actions.

Hi Zach

I had not enjoyed seeing the protests because i had felt it was disrespectful of HH Dalai Lama BUT i do think that the protests fulfilled a certain role in the bigger picture.

If your guru had asked you to protest, i have no comment on it as you are following your guru's instructions. But it must have been a dilemma for those who wanted to exercise guru devotion yet did not agree with the protests, like the anonymous poster in the guest book said. Did you see any of this yourself?

Is it true that NKT discourages people from participating in forums? (sorry - i am presuming that you're a member of NKT?)

[Zach]

Not everyone speaks Undharmically about the DL.
I went protesting with the others my motivation was compassion for those suffering, Of course I would have prefered a symbolic silent protest.
If one believes in this bigger picture then you would know we have a part to play In helping spread Dorje shugdens name throughout the world the Dalai lamas actions set the stage for the spread and the protests set it in motion.

Or if you do not take to this view it is in my specific opinion that it is a Fundemental human right for people to have freedom to practise without people creating hindrances for them, So regardless of which one you choose to believe geshe-la said that if you could not refrain from getting angry you should certainly not go to them because it wasnt about becoming angry with the Dalai lama it was requesting him to listen as he has continually ignored all requests for dialouge.

Many people didnt want to protest and thats fair enough no one forces you to do anything you dont like but for those who did the majority of us went and generated compassion before engaing in such actions.

Hi Zach

I had not enjoyed seeing the protests because i had felt it was disrespectful of HH Dalai Lama BUT i do think that the protests fulfilled a certain role in the bigger picture.

If your guru had asked you to protest, i have no comment on it as you are following your guru's instructions. But it must have been a dilemma for those who wanted to exercise guru devotion yet did not agree with the protests, like the anonymous poster in the guest book said. Did you see any of this yourself?

Is it true that NKT discourages people from participating in forums? (sorry - i am presuming that you're a member of NKT?)

Personally I was unsure at first bought thought what the hey people are suffering and what is going on isnt right.
The use of forums ? Hm well I think that used to be the stance I dont know wheather it has changed or not but regarding places such as E-sangha and so forth that implanted people with distorted perceptions perhapes a few people consider it important to try and help undo the damage done to the reputation by using the formerly unvoiced platform. Of course its not like there is some sort of NKT police force that comes and checks if you are using forums or not. Why not use them if you can try and help others ?
Of course having said that one would be a pretty unsteady practitoner if your opinions changed through the sayings and doings of others 

[WisdomBeing]

Personally I was unsure at first bought thought what the hey people are suffering and what is going on isnt right.
The use of forums ? Hm well I think that used to be the stance I dont know wheather it has changed or not but regarding places such as E-sangha and so forth that implanted people with distorted perceptions perhapes a few people consider it important to try and help undo the damage done to the reputation by using the formerly unvoiced platform. Of course its not like there is some sort of NKT police force that comes and checks if you are using forums or not. Why not use them if you can try and help others ?
Of course having said that one would be a pretty unsteady practitoner if your opinions changed through the sayings and doings of others 

Hi Zach,

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm sure there isn't an NKT police force but I'm just curious - aren't we supposed to follow our Guru's instructions - whether it benefits others or not is besides the point? Otherwise we become selective and choose which advice our Gurus give to follow and which not to? I also read somewhere that Geshe Kelsang says that his students should not read Dharma texts by other Gurus. Is this true and do his students follow that? I'm sure there's no NKT police on that too. I'm just trying to understand the policies of NKT.

Agreed that one would be pretty unstable if we can be so easily swayed but I'm sure there is a reason why Geshela gave the instructions he gives

 

[DSFriend]

Not everyone speaks Undharmically about the DL.
I went protesting with the others my motivation was compassion for those suffering, Of course I would have prefered a symbolic silent protest.

Thanks Zach for your sharing.

 It is usually a few acting and speaking undharmically that puts down the dharma...sad but true. Of course as long as we are in samsara, this is bound to happen to anyone of us. What I like about this forum is that the rules put in place is precisely to help us practice awareness of our speech as what we say will plant seeds in others' minds.

[kurava]

 I also read somewhere that Geshe Kelsang says that his students should not read Dharma texts by other Gurus. Is this true and do his students follow that?



 

Hi,
As far as I gather from NKT members :  Geshe Kelsang does not forbid his students to read Dharma texts by other Gurus. It is the policy of NKT centres that only Dharma texts written by Geshe Kelsang are used for their education programs at all NKT Centres.

If you have read any of Geshe Kelsang's books, you will know that his books are very structured and they are particularly useful for training up Dharma teachers. I suppose the two obvious reasons why only his books are taught at NKT centres are :
1) to practice guru devotion
2) to avoid confusion in the minds of students whose dharma  foundation is not yet stable.

[WisdomBeing]

 I also read somewhere that Geshe Kelsang says that his students should not read Dharma texts by other Gurus. Is this true and do his students follow that?

 

Hi,
As far as I gather from NKT members :  Geshe Kelsang does not forbid his students to read Dharma texts by other Gurus. It is the policy of NKT centres that only Dharma texts written by Geshe Kelsang are used for their education programs at all NKT Centres.

If you have read any of Geshe Kelsang's books, you will know that his books are very structured and they are particularly useful for training up Dharma teachers. I suppose the two obvious reasons why only his books are taught at NKT centres are :
1) to practice guru devotion
2) to avoid confusion in the minds of students whose dharma  foundation is not yet stable.

Dear Kurava

Thanks for the clarification - it seems logical!

Cheers!

[Zach]

Personally I was unsure at first bought thought what the hey people are suffering and what is going on isnt right.
The use of forums ? Hm well I think that used to be the stance I dont know wheather it has changed or not but regarding places such as E-sangha and so forth that implanted people with distorted perceptions perhapes a few people consider it important to try and help undo the damage done to the reputation by using the formerly unvoiced platform. Of course its not like there is some sort of NKT police force that comes and checks if you are using forums or not. Why not use them if you can try and help others ?
Of course having said that one would be a pretty unsteady practitoner if your opinions changed through the sayings and doings of others 

Hi Zach,

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm sure there isn't an NKT police force but I'm just curious - aren't we supposed to follow our Guru's instructions - whether it benefits others or not is besides the point? Otherwise we become selective and choose which advice our Gurus give to follow and which not to? I also read somewhere that Geshe Kelsang says that his students should not read Dharma texts by other Gurus. Is this true and do his students follow that? I'm sure there's no NKT police on that too. I'm just trying to understand the policies of NKT.

Agreed that one would be pretty unstable if we can be so easily swayed but I'm sure there is a reason why Geshela gave the instructions he gives

 

Of course we should follow our gurus instructions but we should always check with a wise mind, In this case some people if they visited a forum could have their faith destroyed as has happened at a few sights when they ask about the NKT or geshe-la they are bombarded with negativity and distorted views, The spiritual guides advice is very personal my faith is unwavering my personal experiences do not confirm the accusations of others so In order to help other beings as according to the vows there is a pretty simple way to accomplish this by showing correct discipline and being kind to those of other followings soon helps change a sterotype of wrong views that has been painted in their minds by others, And most importantly for those whom waiver on the path I would try to help them not by reinforcing their delusions of perception but by trying to help them use wisdom analysis and not listen to the gossip of others but use their own personal experience as a basis for validification in the case having perceived only good but being shaken by false speech.

And no as Kuarva has said there is no policy of only being allowed to read Geshe-la's books his writings are only used for the study programes as their meaning is very clear and easy to translate for a western auidence and give practical teacher training to those who go on the appropriate course, People are welcome to read whatever they want in the time being.

If you want to understand the policies of the NKT i would have a look at the internal rules. 

[WisdomBeing]

Of course we should follow our gurus instructions but we should always check with a wise mind, In this case some people if they visited a forum could have their faith destroyed as has happened at a few sights when they ask about the NKT or geshe-la they are bombarded with negativity and distorted views, The spiritual guides advice is very personal my faith is unwavering my personal experiences do not confirm the accusations of others so In order to help other beings as according to the vows there is a pretty simple way to accomplish this by showing correct discipline and being kind to those of other followings soon helps change a sterotype of wrong views that has been painted in their minds by others, And most importantly for those whom waiver on the path I would try to help them not by reinforcing their delusions of perception but by trying to help them use wisdom analysis and not listen to the gossip of others but use their own personal experience as a basis for validification in the case having perceived only good but being shaken by false speech.

And no as Kuarva has said there is no policy of only being allowed to read Geshe-la's books his writings are only used for the study programes as their meaning is very clear and easy to translate for a western auidence and give practical teacher training to those who go on the appropriate course, People are welcome to read whatever they want in the time being.

If you want to understand the policies of the NKT i would have a look at the internal rules. 

Dear Zach,

when you mentioned that some people who visit a forum can get their faith destroyed if they read negative views, that really made me grateful again that in this forum at least, no Lama or Guru should be criticised, and that is across the board, be it Geshe Kelsang Gyatso or the Dalai Lama.

Even though these lamas may not be my Gurus directly, they are somebody's Guru and i think that the requirement that everyone who participates in this forum be respectful to all Gurus is laudable.

Thanks for referring me to the internal rules of the NKT. Is it online anywhere?

[Zach]

Might be worth visiting http://www.newkadampatruth.org/new-kadampa-tradition/
To see extracts and also emailing them for a copy either that or head office. 

[WisdomBeing]

Thanks for the link, Zach. I found it quite interesting. I didn't know that NKT members were banned from E-Sangha!

I liked the way NKT presented the 'smears' and their 'truths'. Informative for someone like me who has heard/read a lot of criticisms of NKT. This is a good FAQ..

[Zach]

Thanks for the link, Zach. I found it quite interesting. I didn't know that NKT members were banned from E-Sangha!

I liked the way NKT presented the 'smears' and their 'truths'. Informative for someone like me who has heard/read a lot of criticisms of NKT. This is a good FAQ..

Yes how did you not know ? LOL

[WisdomBeing]

Thanks for the link, Zach. I found it quite interesting. I didn't know that NKT members were banned from E-Sangha!

I liked the way NKT presented the 'smears' and their 'truths'. Informative for someone like me who has heard/read a lot of criticisms of NKT. This is a good FAQ..

Yes how did you not know ? LOL

Zach - i haven't been to e-sangha for awhile. The site was down at one stage. Why was NKT members banned in e-sangha anyway? For promoting Shugden?

[Robert Thomas]

Dear Wisdombeing

This has some backround info to your question

http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/e-sangha-and-sect-bashing-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/

With best wishes

Robert