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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: mountains on February 09, 2008, 09:05:23 PM

Title: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: mountains on February 09, 2008, 09:05:23 PM

MUST READ!



Professor Robert Thurman, an outspoken critic of Dorje Shugden has other issues. He writes wrongly about other sensitive Tibetan issues and Sharmar Rinpoche retorts back clearly. I am not taking either sides, but this letter and its response gives clear information regarding how other sects feel regarding HH the Dalai Lama/Tibetan Govt no matter what it looks like on the surface as according to Sharmar Rinpoche.

That is what is necessary, to write clearly and explain as does Sharmar Rinpoche. Also Sharmar 'daringly' says the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Government has no authority over their sect. Very strong words. If other sects speak up 'against' the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Government, they will remain quiet as to not look sectarian. Gelugpas may not do the same it seems. Do you think the Gelugpas/Gaden Tripa could tell HH Dalai Lama/Tibetan Government to please do not interfere in the worship of Dorje Shugden as it is a Gelugpa Affairs that should be taken care without interference from HH and Govt? Definitely not.

That this practice has been existent for 300+ years already and it never needed the approval of the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Govt in the first place. Why suddenly now?? We do not need a referendum regarding this practice, as how can a high Lama's practice (Pabongkha/Trijang) be judged by referendum of lay people and ordinary monks. Then all practices should have a referendum now. That means those without attainments/learning can suddenly hold referendum on the practice proliferated by those who have great attainments/learning.

It is interesting to see through Prof Thurman's letter and Sharmar Rinpoche's counter how the Tibetan Government makes many mistakes throughout history interfering in religious affairs. Most of the ministers are lay people and have very little knowledge of Dharma. But they can presume to order monks to do and not do as they like.     

The Dorje Shugden issue is only one of the MANY issues that the Tibetan Government has interfered and turned upside down. Since the Tibetan Government is called the Gaden Podrang (by name Gelugpa), it can only have power over the Gelugpa schools of Buddhism. The other schools will not TOLERATE ANY INTERFERENCE INTO THEIR RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS BY A HIGH GELUG LAMA (DALAI LAMA) OR HIS GOVERNMENT. They would never stand for a referendum on any of their religious practices, decisions and affairs. That is a fact.


http://karmapa-issue.org/news/open_letter_thurman.htm

 

Letter to Robert A. F. Thurman
by Shamar Rinpoche[/b]


Dr. Robert A. F. Thurman
Professor of Indo-Tibetan Studies
Columbia University
Chair, Department of Religion
Kent Hall Room 617, Mail code 3949
1140 Amsterdam Ave.
New York , NY 10027

Dear Robert A. F. Thurman,
I am writing in response to your letter, dated September 21, 2004. In that letter, you voluntarily enter into the Kagyu controversy surrounding the recognition of the 17th Karmapa. Since it is now, and has been in past generations, the responsibility of the Shamarpas to handle such matters, I feel obliged to respond.

It is especially crucial for me to clearly reply to all the points you make because you are a well-known and well-respected professor of Tibetan Buddhism in the United States. As someone who has a lot of influence in the context of American Buddhism and whose words many people trust, it is my wish that you take seriously the effort I am putting into clarifying some apparent misconceptions.

First I will respond directly to your letter, then pose a question to you, then in the end give some suggestions which I hope you will take seriously. I am currently in Washington D.C., so if you wish to challenge or question me on any of the points I make below I encourage you to do so.
I regret to learn that Lea Terhune's account of the 17th Karmapa, Orgyen Trinley Dorje, in her book Karmapa: the Politics of Reincarnation, has become the subject of a lawsuit in India. This is surprising, since her perspective on the Karmapa and the unfortunate controversy that developed within the Karma Kagyu lineage over his recognition, is valid and reasonable.
While it is clear that Lea Terhune supports Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche as the genuine Karmapa, she in fact hardly addresses that issue in her book at all.
As far as the contend of the book goes, it takes up only the smallest chapter. There is much more going on in her book, and it is on the basis of those other points that she is being sued.
In fact, her support for Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche is not an issue and is not being addressed in court at all. It seems you have completely missed the point of what is going on in the court case. We in fact did not have to sue her for that particular point because there have already been two famous cases addressing this matter: one In India and one in Auckland, New Zealand. In both those court cases, the supporters of Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche provided as much documentation as they could and tried to prove that legally the authority to recognize the incarnation of the Karmapas is in the hands of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Since that claim, however, goes against all the traditional unbroken norms of our lineage, they lost both court cases and were totally refuted.

This court case currently in progress is something completely different. For the most part, Lea Terhune's book is full of personal attacks against her own, and Situ Rinpoche's, enemies and puts forward a series of completely fabricated ‘facts'. Making statements that constitute nothing less than a betrayal of the Karma Kagyu lineage, she posits, for example, that since the time of the 10th Karmapa the Karma Kagyu lineage is inauthentic. For instance, she casts doubt on whether the candidate enthroned as the 10th Karmapa was the real one. Nobody could ever get away with writing that in Tibetan, so this work must be directed towards non-Tibetans for some specific purpose. Perhaps in order to make sure that non-Tibetans don't chose to follow the Karma Kagyu school. In any case, we selected six points to fight legally, and it is on the basis of these six points that we are suing both Ms. Terhune and Wisdom Publications. These six points are as follows:
 
1. Terhune claims that I murdered Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche.
2. Terhune claims that General Secretary Topga Rinpoche sold the Karmapa's monastery in Bhutan to the Bhutanese government in order pay off his own personal loan.
3. She claims that before I recognized Thaye Dorje Rinpoche as Karmapa, I had tried to recognize a Bhutanese prince as the 17th Karmapa.
4. She claims that I, Shamar Rinpoche, tried to have the ownership of the Karmapa International Buddhist Institute
(KIBI) in New Delhi transferred to my own name.
5. She claims that my family is connected to CIA.
6. She claims that I bribed the Indian government to prevent Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche from going to Sikkim.
The court case concerns these six points alone. As you can see, only the last has anything to do with Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche, and even that has nothing to do with his recognition as the Karmapa.
I have come to the conclusion, after much experience in this country, that many professors, students and journalists here are what I refer to as "package believers". By package believer, I refer to people who fail to examine the details of any given situation. In this case, even you, a highly respected professor at a top university, did not bother to examine the particular details of the case you are responding to. This is disappointing. When Lea Terhune was called into a court case about her book you jumped to conclusion that it must be about the recognition of Orgyen Trinley as Karmapa and issued a statement to that effect.
The recognition of the 17th Karmapa was done according to the traditions of the Karma Kagyu lineage. A cryptic letter left by the previous Karmapa was discovered by one of his chief lamas, Tai Situpa, and then interpreted before it was brought before His Holiness the Dalai Lama in June, 1992. H. H. Dalai Lama also confirmed the recognition, not merely as a bureaucratic formality, but because he, too, had a spiritual insight that corroborated the details given in the recognition letter.
First of all, with respect to the recognition of the 17th Karmapa, neither the Tibetan Government in Exile nor H. H. Dalai Lama examined the letter that Tai Situ Rinpoche claims was written by the late 16th Karmapa. The letter he produced was locked into a golden gao, with a hair from Guru Padmasambhava and some other holy relics and it should still be at Rumtek Monastery, unless it was stolen in 1993. While the late Karmapa's administration was prevented from properly testing the letter forensically, they did examine at least the handwriting. Comparing it with letters written by H. H. 16th Karmapa and letters written by Tai Situ Rinpoche, it was discovered that each and every word written looks like it was written by Tai Situ Rinpoche himself and not by the 16th Karmapa. Again, I remind you the neither the TGIE not H. H. Dalai Lama ever had a chance to examine that letter.
Since the 17th century, around the time of the 10th Karmapa, when the Dalai Lama became temporal and spiritual head of Tibet, the Tibetan government has required that the Dalai Lama giver permission for the enthronement of the Karmapa at his seat, Tshurphu Monastery, which is located near Lhasa, Tibet.
According to historical records, the 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th Karmapas never had any approval or examination from the then government, which at that time actually had authority over a country (as opposed to the current government in exile which doesn't have any legal authority). Among those Karmapas, the Dalai Lamas were never called upon to approve or confirm their recognition.
After the death of the 12th Karmapa, the 13th was recognized by the Nyingmapa Lama Kathok Rigdzin Chenmo, who was a favourite Lama of the 12th Karmapa, the 8th Shamarpa and the 8th Situpa. Kathok Rigdzin Chenmo was also a friend of both the 7th Dalai Lama and Pholhawa, the King of Tibet. The 7th Dalai Lama and Pholhawa the Desid of Tibet, both gave their support and assistance to the process of recognizing the 13th Karmapa, but even then were not called upon to approve him. I will also point out that Kathok Rigdzin Chenmo's great service to the Karma Kagyu, recognizing the 13th Karmapa, did not start a new tradition of Karmapas being recognized by the Nyingmapa Kathok monastery!
What I am trying to point out to you, is that even when the Dalai Lamas and the Tibetan Government had the power as the ruling government of Tibet to impose their interests on the Karma Kagyu they didn't do it; even after the time of the 10th Karmapa, all later Karmapas were recognized by either a Shamarpa, a Drukchen Rinpoche, a Situpa Rinpoche, or sometimes (as in the case of the 13th Karmapa) a favorite Lama from another school.

Once instance where the Dalai Lamas and the Tibetan government did try to interfere in the process of recognizing the Karmapas was during the time of the recognition of the 16th Karmapa. At that time there was a boy, the son of the finance Minister Lungshawa, whom the 13th Dalai Lama recognized as the 16th Karmapa. Karma Kagyu lamas, on the other hand, recognized a boy from the Athubtsang family of Derge. They rejected the 13th Dalai Lama's candidate, and the 13th Dalai Lama accepted that rejection and acknowledged the Kagyu chosen candidate. That candidate grew up to be H. H. Rangjung Rigpe Dorje.
That the Shamarpa (the plaintiff in the case) has had a role in the recent controversy over the recognition of the 17th Karmapa is undeniable. Although the Dalai Lama issued numerous statements confirming and later reiterating the authenticity of Orgyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa, the Shamarpa has persisted in his efforts to promote a rival candidate and denigrate the recognition of the Karmapa and those who confirmed his recognition. This has been widely reported in the international press. While the Shamarpa may have supporters who subscribe to his version of the story, the view that the Shamarpa holds, i.e., that his candidate Thaye Dorje is the 17th Karmapa, is not generally accepted among Tibetans, and not at all by the Tibetan government in exile and the Dalai Lama. The Tibetan government did examine the Shamarpa's claims, but since he failed to present convincing evidence to support the claims, they were dismissed.
The TGIE never asked me for proof of my own recognition of the 17th Karmapa. I also never requested their approval, as they are not in a position to ask for such proof. Why? Because when you recognize the reincarnation of a Lama, the past Lama's spirit had to come from Nirvana or the Bardo to a new human form. At that point, the appropriate spiritual teachers recognize it. And when one is such a spiritual leader, that Lama is recognized either by seeing it directly from one's supernatural mind, or via the prediction of one's personal yidams (white or green Tara, for example, or Dharma protectors).

There exists no tradition of asking for proof of such types of recognition. This is because the process is beyond what people can perceive with their normal senses. So I myself, being a Shamarpa, I am the proof of the authority to recognize Karmapa according to the traditions of the Karma Kagyu lineage. If I had produced a letter which I claimed was written by the 16th Karmapa, then my letter would have been examined by the 16th Karmapa's own administrators if they had any doubts. They have the right to evaluate the authenticity of such a letter if there are any doubts. Additionally, if my personal prediction contradicted a letter which they deemed to authentic, they would have the right to veto my recognition of the Karmapa. That power to veto would depend on the Karmapa's administration proving publicly that the letter is authentic and that it contradicts my prediction. Then the final decision would depend on where the more convincing proof lies.

No Shamarpa has had to ask for approval or provide proof to the Dalai Lamas or to the Tibetan government. I recognized Thaye Dorje Rinpoche as the 17th Karmapa in 1993. He and his family then escaped in 1994. I myself declared to the world he is the Karmapa and enthroned him at Bodhgaya in 1996 without any confirmation from or contact with either the TGIE or H.H. Dalai Lama.

It should also be mentioned here that the recognition of reincarnate Lamas is not conducted by popular vote. The number of devotees or supporters has never been a valid means of establishing the authenticity of a teacher. Many Karmapas and Shamarpas have led quite solitary lives, spending many years at a time in retreat and with few disciples. That has never caused anyone to doubt their authenticity.


The controversy is not without precedent in Tibetan history, as Ms. Terhune points out in her book. But it is historically significant now because, in the 21st century, the dissension is not confined to a remote Tibet, but affects followers of Tibetan Buddhism throughout the world.
Here I agree with you completely. However much you are concerned by this issue - as you clearly are - I'm sure you can be sympathetic to how much more concerned I am. Traditionally, the Shamarpas lead the Karma Kagyu lineage in concert with the Karmapas. This means that I have the responsibility to protect the Karma Kagyu lineage. Please think about how strongly you feel, then put yourself in my shoes for a moment, and imagine how important it is to me to protect the autonomy of the Karma Kagyu.

I understand that you support H.H. Dalai Lama one hundred percent and support completely the Gelukpa school which is the only school you are devoted to. The attempt to give full authority over the four schools to H.H. Dalai Lama, however, cannot be supported and indeed does not have the support of any of the other schools.

Now I will move away from your letter and present you with a question for reflection: if you use the political situation at the time of the 10th Karmapa to prove that the Dalai Lamas have the authority to recognize the Karmapas, you should also consider that from the time of the Great 5th Dalai Lama it has been obligatory that the reincarnations of the Dalai Lamas be approved by the Emperors of China. Setting the precedent that you attempt to do here, how will you prevent in the future, the Chinese government from claiming its historical right to recognize the Dalai Lamas?

The heads of the Karma Kagyu, Drikung Kagyu, Nyingma and Sakya lineages have never required the approval of either the leaders of China or the Dalai Lamas. The precedent you are setting here will pave the way for the collapse of every school of Tibetan Buddhism, Gelukpas included. Please consider the long-term effects.
The general outrage surrounding the whole Karmapa controversy is starting to resemble the howling of crafty coyotes so enthralled by their hunt that nobody can hear the soft voice of a lamb trying to sound a warning. Situ Rinpoche totally failed to prove the so-called prediction letter to be authentic, yet still this letter is waved around by many of his collaborators as some kind of authentic proof.

Since you came to my problem voluntarily, I will offer you advice. You are known here in the United States as a prominent Buddhist, a respected Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and a political activist. I therefore request that you not be a "package believer" and fall prey to becoming a fanatical Buddhist. Buddhism usually teaches people how to think, how to judge, how to evaluate. The young generations of this country badly need training in how to think and evaluate. This I can see clearly. In the last 25 years of experience in the USA , I have seen that every decade people are becoming more and more machine-minded and naive. If they see something special or interesting they don't know how to go and explore the background. Instead, they follow it like a stream of water winding forwards and never looking back. This is a great nation formed by very, very wise people. If the people of today don't learn how to judge religion, politics and leaders, I am afraid that one day this great country will fall into a dark age.

You are a professor of Buddhism, a political activist, and a Buddhist, so I encourage you to not mix up these many facets of your life. For example, your political campaign for Tibet should not be mixed with your job as a scholar of Tibetan Buddhism. My personal request to you is to not to be sectarian in your profession, and to please be an honest scholar. I don't see any benefit for the US to participate in and spread this sectarianism. To be Buddhist is enough.

When I see the type of response you wrote in the case of Lea Terhune, I am concerned that you may one day go so far as to discourage students and speakers who have ever critiqued H.H. Dalai Lama or the TGIE, and further, even discourage or block the careers of anyone who is friends with any such people. Buddhists should not violate the freedom of religion and discriminate against others. In a country like the United States, which prides itself on democracy and freedom, it is a shame that a tradition like Buddhism can be used to suppress and limit people.
  
 
Sincerely,
Shamar Rimpoche

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: mountains on February 09, 2008, 09:07:48 PM

DO CLICK ON THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST TO READ ROBERT THURMAN'S LETTER.

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: Alexis on February 09, 2008, 11:56:23 PM

Right to the point.

This thread should be moved in the permanent thread section at the top of the page.

Good job mountains!

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: a friend on February 10, 2008, 05:02:25 AM

Quote

Since you came to my problem voluntarily, I will offer you advice. You are known here in the United States as a prominent Buddhist, a respected Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and a political activist. I therefore request that you not be a "package believer" and fall prey to becoming a fanatical Buddhist.

 :D Sorry guys, but this part of Shamar Rinpoche's brilliant letter made me laugh, and after all these years of heavy events and almost pathological caution to treat this issue, it was quite a relief. I have to confess that Shamar Rinpoche's answer to Thurman, the one who called us, the children of Lord Pabongka Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche "the Taliban of Buddhism", truly makes me laugh! Thurman is called by one of the earliest Rinpoches of Tibet a "package believer" and a "fanatical Buddhist". Sorry, such quick return has me like the Smileys, I can't help it :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D

What does not make me laugh, though, is an issue that is not being addressed thoroughly, to say the least, and should be in the future, if we really want that this website becomes the truly great Dorje Shugden website, the one who will provide History with the facts that others are trying to hide or distort. The issue of the Tulkus. The Dalai Lama has been "appropriating" the Tulkus of our great Lamas that propitiated Lord Dorje Shugden, in order to prevent them from following the practice in their new emanation. He always has a way to convince people as we know, in this case, the adult people close to the Tulkus. Look at Lama Yeshe´s Tulku. Look at Kyabje Zong Rinpoche´s Tulku. Just think about the terrible injustice of cutting them from the practice they cherished and spread ... are you going to say that it's these Tulku's karma?

Friends, so much so very wrong, and we still want to call holy what is not holy ... This is an issue that we have to examine sooner or later, and analyze with great prayers to our Lamas for light and inspiration.

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: Alexis on February 10, 2008, 05:32:46 AM

Dear friend,

Could you be a little more specific or elaborate a little on your intention as I am not sure in which direction you want to have us thinking!

-'...This is an issue that we have to examine sooner or later, and analyze with great prayers to our Lamas for light and inspiration.'

Which issue is that?

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: a friend on February 10, 2008, 10:09:18 PM

Alexis, although what I'm saying is quite litteral, I apologize for raising that issue. It was almost a comment to myself. Let's give the recent unfortunate events time to come to some conclusion. After we know the final results for the monks, what are they going to do, where are they going to live and how, then I will write more. Thank you for your question and your patience.

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: Alexis on February 11, 2008, 06:51:19 PM

So sad our Ganden Tripa doesn't have the courage to speak like Sharmar Rimpoche! :-\

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: jeff Ryan on February 11, 2008, 10:40:17 PM

The Ganden Tripa was appointed by the Dalai Lama. The old system for selecting Ganden Tripa has been gone since the controversy started.

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: LosangKhyentse on January 27, 2010, 02:03:41 PM

Dear alexis,

Our Gaden Tripa (now Trisur) DOES HAVE THE COURAGE TO SPEAK UP LIKE SHARMAPA. I'm sure you are going t

going to be very happy to know.

Sharmapa being of another sect, Dalai Lama dare not publicly condemn him as he would be seen as sectarian.

Looks like Gaden Tripa had the courage all this time, but WAS JUST WAITING FOR THE RIGHT MOMENT.

TK

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: emptymountains on January 27, 2010, 05:04:57 PM

From Shamar Rinpoche's letter to Robert Thurman:

Quote

Now I will move away from your letter and present you with a question for reflection: if you use the political situation at the time of the 10th Karmapa to prove that the Dalai Lamas have the authority to recognize the Karmapas, you should also consider that from the time of the Great 5th Dalai Lama it has been obligatory that the reincarnations of the Dalai Lamas be approved by the Emperors of China. Setting the precedent that you attempt to do here, how will you prevent in the future, the Chinese government from claiming its historical right to recognize the Dalai Lamas?

The heads of the Karma Kagyu, Drikung Kagyu, Nyingma and Sakya lineages have never required the approval of either the leaders of China or the Dalai Lamas. The precedent you are setting here will pave the way for the collapse of every school of Tibetan Buddhism, Gelukpas included. Please consider the long-term effects.

Eye-opening!  :o

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: LosangKhyentse on January 27, 2010, 05:21:21 PM

QUOTE:

Now I will move away from your letter and present you with a question for reflection: if you use the political situation at the time of the 10th Karmapa to prove that the Dalai Lamas have the authority to recognize the Karmapas, you should also consider that from the time of the Great 5th Dalai Lama it has been obligatory that the reincarnations of the Dalai Lamas be approved by the Emperors of China. Setting the precedent that you attempt to do here, how will you prevent in the future, the Chinese government from claiming its historical right to recognize the Dalai Lamas?

The heads of the Karma Kagyu, Drikung Kagyu, Nyingma and Sakya lineages have never required the approval of either the leaders of China or the Dalai Lamas. The precedent you are setting here will pave the way for the collapse of every school of Tibetan Buddhism, Gelukpas included. Please consider the long-term effects.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



THE ABOVE IS LOGICALLY THOUGHT OUT AND SOUND.

VERY SHARP AND PRECISE ARGUMENT.

I AGREE.

TK

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: thor on February 03, 2010, 11:32:04 AM

Dalai lama is breaking with tradition in more ways than just this, specifically referring to the matter of identifying the next incarnation. This is probably old news for most people on this forum but reading this thread has reminded me about the issue.

Quote

The Dalai Lama has openly speculated about his next life, his reincarnation, musing that he might upend historical and cultural practice and choose his reincarnation before his death, the better to safeguard his exiled people.

Full link here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/weekinreview/01powell.html

From what I have read, I gather that it is the Kagyu Lamas who first approached Dalai Lama re the Karmapa issue. I don't know why Dalai Lama himself agreed to get involved but in any case, having two Karmapas weakens the Kagyu school in terms of leadership and direction. Perhaps that's why.

MW

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: Ensapa on February 03, 2010, 02:52:23 PM

maybe he's trying to crack the stubborn Tibetan people?

they can be very stubborn and hard to crack, though the fastest way is to say you're working for a Rinpoche hehe

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: WisdomBeing on February 28, 2010, 02:38:04 PM

Quote from: a friend on February 10, 2008, 05:02:25 AM

What does not make me laugh, though, is an issue that is not being addressed thoroughly, to say the least, and should be in the future, if we really want that this website becomes the truly great Dorje Shugden website, the one who will provide History with the facts that others are trying to hide or distort.

The issue of the Tulkus. The Dalai Lama has been "appropriating" the Tulkus of our great Lamas that propitiated Lord Dorje Shugden, in order to prevent them from following the practice in their new emanation. He always has a way to convince people as we know, in this case, the adult people close to the Tulkus. Look at Lama Yeshe´s Tulku. Look at Kyabje Zong Rinpoche´s Tulku. Just think about the terrible injustice of cutting them from the practice they cherished and spread ... are you going to say that it's these Tulku's karma?

Friends, so much so very wrong, and we still want to call holy what is not holy ... This is an issue that we have to examine sooner or later, and analyze with great prayers to our Lamas for light and inspiration.

Dear A Friend,

Please forgive my ignorance but could you please elaborate on what you mean by the Dalai Lama "appropriating" the tulkus of our great Lamas that propitiated Lord Dorje Shugden, in order to prevent them from following the practice in their new emanation?

Lama Yeshe's Tulku and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche´s Tulku? Sorry to be dense but who are these tulkus?

I have not heard of this and would like to know more.

Thank you,

love
Kate

Title: Re: Sharmar openly speaks against HH Dalai lama/Tib Government
Post by: DharmaDefender on February 28, 2010, 03:41:27 PM

Quote from: WisdomBeing on February 28, 2010, 02:38:04 PM

Quote from: a friend on February 10, 2008, 05:02:25 AM

What does not make me laugh, though, is an issue that is not being addressed thoroughly, to say the least, and should be in the future, if we really want that this website becomes the truly great Dorje Shugden website, the one who will provide History with the facts that others are trying to hide or distort.

The issue of the Tulkus. The Dalai Lama has been "appropriating" the Tulkus of our great Lamas that propitiated Lord Dorje Shugden, in order to prevent them from following the practice in their new emanation. He always has a way to convince people as we know, in this case, the adult people close to the Tulkus. Look at Lama Yeshe´s Tulku. Look at Kyabje Zong Rinpoche´s Tulku. Just think about the terrible injustice of cutting them from the practice they cherished and spread ... are you going to say that it's these Tulku's karma?

Friends, so much so very wrong, and we still want to call holy what is not holy ... This is an issue that we have to examine sooner or later, and analyze with great prayers to our Lamas for light and inspiration.

Dear A Friend,

Please forgive my ignorance but could you please elaborate on what you mean by the Dalai Lama "appropriating" the tulkus of our great Lamas that propitiated Lord Dorje Shugden, in order to prevent them from following the practice in their new emanation?

Lama Yeshe's Tulku and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche´s Tulku? Sorry to be dense but who are these tulkus?

I have not heard of this and would like to know more.

Thank you,

love
Kate

I think a friend is referring to Lama Osel, who is Lama Yeshe's incarnation. I don't see it as the Dalai Lama doing that actually, but the students. Breaking away from a practice that their guru gave them, FPMT unfortunately created the causes for their lama to be spiritually distant from them. Even Lama Zopa himself said so, saying that "The karma from forsaking one’s guru is worse than the karma generated by Hitler and Mao Tse Tung." (see under 'Forsaking a Guru' at http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1166)

What I like about the article is that despite Geshe Kelsang Gyatso being a DS practitioner, and FPMT following a no-DS line, Lama Zopa still advised the student to return to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and apologise.