dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: icy on October 19, 2013, 03:01:35 AM
-
The Dalai Lama's so-called high-level autonomy of Tibet is in essence "Tibet independence in two steps", said Zhu Weiqun, chairman of the Ethnic and Religious Affairs Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference - China's top political advisory body - during a visit to Europe on Thursday.
He paid the visit to observe how European countries deal with religious issues and to introduce China's policies on religion and autonomy. Brussels was his first stop.
Recently, the Dalai Lama visited the United States and Mexico to promote his so-called high-level autonomy of Tibet. Zhu said that the Dalai Lama's demand is a breach of China's regional ethnic autonomy law and against the interests of the Chinese people. "We cannot allow it to happen in China," he said.
Zhu said the Dalai Lama once announced in India that his so-called high-level autonomy is a realistic goal for members of the Tibetan ethnic group people.
"In the fundamental sense, 'high-level autonomy' means Tibet's independence. It is separated into two steps. The first step is so-called autonomy. The second one is actual independence," Zhu explained. In China, autonomy law and policy are always consistent and there is no such saying as "high-level autonomy" or "low-level autonomy", he added.
Therefore, Zhu said, the Dalai Lama wants to practice a different "regional autonomy". His so-called high-level autonomy is against China's autonomy system and does nothing but insert secessionist elements into China's regional ethnic autonomy law, he added.
"It's totally separatism and we cannot allow it," Zhu said.
Secession will not bring Tibetan people a better life and stable economy, Zhu stressed. Without a sound foundation of a political environment, the economy and trade cannot have a solid footing. There are many religions in China. In the past, China has handled religious affairs very well, he added.
"The Dalai Lama's recent moves have not affected Tibet's economic growth," he said.
The region's gross domestic product grew 13 percent year-on-year in 2012, marking the 20th consecutive year of double-digit growth.
In contrast to the serfdom and poverty in the past in Tibet, disposable income of residents in Tibet grew 17 percent in 2012, achieving the 10th year of double-digit growth.
Zhu called for people in Europe to better understand China's religious and autonomy policies. "Given the difference between Europe and China, Beijing has to choose its own path," he said.
-
How unfair it is to say that the Dalai Lama wants the independence of Tibet!
Everybody knows that, as a Western puppet, what he and his entourage of greedy feudal lords ultimately want is not at all independence, but rather to make of Tibet a fully dependent political and economic colony of Western powers, borrowing money from Western banksters, drowning Tibet in debts, signing a ruinous “free-trade” agreement with US and European Union, and, of course, joining NATO to send young Tibetans to die in any of the worldwide US wars against humanity.
-
How unfair it is to say that the Dalai Lama wants the independence of Tibet!
Right, so I don't think that China has much to fear that the Dalai Lama is actually seeking independence in Tibet;
Here is a link to one of the many posts about how the Dalai Lama has not historically sought independence in Tibet:
http://truedalailama.com/?page_id=203 (http://truedalailama.com/?page_id=203)
There is also an e-book available with much on this topic available from the following site:
http://falsedalailama.com/ (http://falsedalailama.com/)
-
Thanks Blueupali for the valuable links.
Indeed, even going back to the “great” 5th Dalai Lama (and even more to the Desi before him), it is pretty clear that his main strategy was to establish his own absolute power within Tibet, on the basis of placing Tibet under the vassalage of the most bloodthirsty currently available Mongolian butcher.
The “great” 13th Dalai Lama apparently tried the same, but now looking westwards for British colonialists, who would keep him in power as the local tyrant, in exchange for military, economic and political vassalage, plus of course a handsome chunk of Tibet, which he joyfully gave (South Tibet, Tawang, also known as Arunachal Pradesh) to the British Rothschild empire.
The 14th Dalai Lama, in the footsteps of his predecessor in the office, visibly dedicates his life to establish his own tyrannical rule over Tibet, on the basis of placing it under US economic, political and military vassalage and exploitation, which puts him in the company of criminal puppets such as Reza Pahlavi, Suharto, Pinochet, assorted Latin American dictators and Arabic butchers (also know as “kings”), Mubaraks and so forth.
-
So, I don't think the Dalai Lama really wants the west or China, or really has any agenda, other than his remaining in as much of power as possible.
So if he can be a puppet for the west, fine. If he can be a puppet for China, fine.
So, I always think that if the Dalai Lama is really a Buddha, and I really have no idea, then he is demonstrating what not to do: in this case what not to do is clearly not to mix religion and politics.
He also demonstrates clearly the issues that Buddha warned about with dogmatism. So, if we pick a guy, and say, that guys is god, Buddha, whatever, and therefore, no matter what, that guy can do no wrong, then obviously we are creating the causes for dogmatism.
So we could see this as a warning about things to come. Both the U.S. and China have been involved in the politics of Tibetans; the mixing of politics and religion under the auspices of the office of the Dalai Lama from the time of the 5th Dalai Lama warns us not to blindly follow the leader. The U.S. has its interests, China has its interests; if we are interested in dharma we need to free the political sphere from the religious one.
Shamar Rinpoche gives some ideas about how this could work in his book "Toward a Transparent Democracy," available as an e-book on lulu.com. Some of what he says I am sure is more for Himalyan countries, and at any rate, I know that Rinpoche always welcomes debate and logic. He does advocate for the separation of religion and state, as do most people in modern history. And freedom of religion:).
-
Correction:
Shamar Rinpoche's book is "Creating a Transparent Democracy"
-
The Dalai Lama again said he is seeking autonomy for Tibet
China's new leadership should use 'common sense': Dalai Lama
NEW YORK: China's new leadership should use "common sense" and seek truth from fact, Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has said here, as he expressed hope for some "indication of change" in approach during Xi Jinping's presidency to bring about harmony and unity in the region.
He gave a public talk yesterday on the 'Virtue of Non- violence' and told a packed theatre of hundreds of followers that he would like to talk with the Chinese government "when the opportunity comes" and stressed that Tibetans are not seeking independence from China but "genuine autonomy".
The public talk by the Tibetan leader capped two days of spiritual discourse which he gave to over 3,000 people in sessions hosted by Hollywood actor Richard Gere's foundation.
Stressing that Tibet's autonomy would be mutually beneficial to Tibetans and the Chinese, the 78-year-old Dalai Lama said he is not seeking a separate Tibet but one which remains within China.
"The middle way is in everybody's interest," he said, referring to his model of Tibetan autonomy which would be on the lines of a Hong Kong or Macau, which have been given political and economic autonomy.
"We want modernised Tibet. Give us meaningful autonomy so that we can carry preservation of Tibet's culture, language and tradition...Preserving Tibet-Buddhist culture is also in the interest of Chinese Buddhists," he said, adding that preservation of Tibetan ecology is in the interest of not only Tibetans but China, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
He added that Tibetans across the world, including in India and the US, have been demanding "complete independence" but do not know how to achieve it.
"We have to be realistic, seek truth from fact." He said the regime of Jinping's predecessor Hu Jintao focussed on a "good idea" of promoting harmonious society but use of censorship and force by the regime was a "wrong method" and only brought more fear in the hearts of people.
"The new leadership (in China) should use common sense and seek truth from fact. Policy of the new leadership should be based on seeking truth from fact," he said, adding that this will help in creating harmonious and united society.
The Dalai Lama said he is "hopeful" that "there is possibility of some indication of change" that the new leadership in China will focus on harmony and unity.
He said that harmony is very essential in a country like China which has a huge population and many ethnic groups.
The Tibetan leader said events of the past like the Tiananmen Square protests created "resentment" among the people and added that harmony is related to trust, which can be build through respect and dialogue.
He said truthfulness and transparency are very important for building trust.
"If you bring more security personnel and censorship, then more fear will come. Fear and trust cannot go together."
He said he is still waiting for an opportunity to return to his homeland and undertake pilgrimage.
"My desire (to return to his homeland) is always there." When asked what advice he would give to his successor, the Dalai Lama laughed and said, "whether there is a 15th Dalai Lama or not nobody knows. If 15th Dalai Lama comes, (it means) I am no longer there."
He added that his advice would be that his successor should focus on his studies.
"When I was young I did not pay much attention to studies. I was too lazy. I still regret that," he said.
-
So, I don't think the Dalai Lama really wants the west or China, or really has any agenda, other than his remaining in as much of power as possible.
If so, he really wants the West, and not at all China, because China just offers him the full freedom to be a religious leader, but not to exert power as a terrorist foreign agent.
So if he can be a puppet for the west, fine. If he can be a puppet for China, fine.
In the capacity of a mere religious leader he could hardly be a puppet. Therefore the possibility of being a puppet for China is just illogical.
Both the U.S. and China have been involved in the politics of Tibetans
China is way less involved in the politics of the Tibetans than the US is involved in the politics of the Cherokee, Sioux or Apache, but brainwashed Americans try to see in other countries the faults of their own.
He [Shamar Rinpoche] does advocate for the separation of religion and state, as do most people in modern history. And freedom of religion:).
I guess Shamar Rinpoche does not include the freedom of acting as an agent of a foreign power in order to promote terrorism in the country in the concept of “freedom of religion”.
-
He [the Dalai Lama] said truthfulness and transparency are very important for building trust.
So true. That's why he so much avoids truthfulness and transparency.
-
So, I don't think the Dalai Lama really wants the west or China, or really has any agenda, other than his remaining in as much of power as possible.
If so, he really wants the West, and not at all China, because China just offers him the full freedom to be a religious leader, but not to exert power as a terrorist foreign agent.
So if he can be a puppet for the west, fine. If he can be a puppet for China, fine.
In the capacity of a mere religious leader he could hardly be a puppet. Therefore the possibility of being a puppet for China is just illogical.
I really think it's possible that since people have mixed religion and state for so long over there, and since we have the misuse of tantra with the Kalachakra initiations, we could see a puppet religious guy wield power in Tibet, which is why China was so interested in backing its own Karmapa. To curry favor, and also to help destabilize the Kagyus, the Dalai Lama, as Gelugpa governments have often done since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama, went for another sect, this time the Kagyus. (In fact, they often go for the Kagyus). I think most Gelugpas are not like this, but the politicky ones are, and the Gelugpas have been in charge in the office of the Dalai Lama.
So the Dalai Lama doesn't really want what the west wants--- because he's had to have an actual democracy, at least eventually. It's harder to be in control in a democracy, unless you are an American bank:).
-
The Dalai Lama again said he is seeking autonomy for Tibet
China's new leadership should use 'common sense': Dalai Lama
NEW YORK: China's new leadership should use "common sense" and seek truth from fact, Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has said here, as he expressed hope for some "indication of change" in approach during Xi Jinping's presidency to bring about harmony and unity in the region.
He gave a public talk yesterday on the 'Virtue of Non- violence' and told a packed theatre of hundreds of followers that he would like to talk with the Chinese government "when the opportunity comes" and stressed that Tibetans are not seeking independence from China but "genuine autonomy".
I hope people will notice what he is saying and stop self-immolating. I wish they would stop self-immolating anyway, but their leader is, again, not asking for independence, so if that is what they want by self-immolating they will not get it anyway....
"We have to be realistic, seek truth from fact." He said the regime of Jinping's predecessor Hu Jintao focussed on a "good idea" of promoting harmonious society but use of censorship and force by the regime was a "wrong method" and only brought more fear in the hearts of people.
If censorship and force are a 'wrong method' then why does the Dalai Lama himself constantly advocate for the censorship of the Shugden practice, the silencing of the voice of the Shugden people and why do people have to go around like donkies saying 'he is Chenrezig he is Chenrezig. He can do no wrong?"
He added that his advice would be that his successor should focus on his studies.
Well, he helped pick China's Karmapa, so I guess the idea is that the China Karmapa will be the puppet, the 15th Dalai lama will study? Let us pray he can take up the Shugden practice in his old age.... this should help Buddhism be free from politics, which might help all the lamas get to teach and study, rather than politiking around.
-
I really think it's possible that since people have mixed religion and state for so long over there, and since we have the misuse of tantra with the Kalachakra initiations, we could see a puppet religious guy wield power in Tibet, which is why China was so interested in backing its own Karmapa.
Well, the nature of a puppet is to look for a master, as the 5th, the 13th and 14th Dalai Lamas together with their wicked entourages of feudal slave-owners have done through the centuries.
And the only reason why they do not go for a much more handy relationship with the Chinese is that the Chinese do not offer them the possibility of becoming puppet tyrants enslaving their own people, something the Western bankster regimes, notoriously the US, do.
Which brings us to another related point: that going along with the Chinese (that which you wanted to describe as becoming a “Chinese puppet”) is not an option for Dalai Lama and entourage, specially as long as they find much more promising masters in the West.
To curry favor, and also to help destabilize the Kagyus, the Dalai Lama, as Gelugpa governments have often done since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama, went for another sect, this time the Kagyus. (In fact, they often go for the Kagyus).
I would say, mainly in order to divide and weaken the Kagyupas, and, of course, to get the favor of the faction he supports.
But not that the Dalai Lama is not currying favor with other sects, as he does, specially with the Nyingma, since the 5th.
By the way (and despite the noble attitude of Penor Rinpoche and possibly other Nyingma lamas), the very ban of Dorje Shugden seems to be related to a demand from some Nyingma quarters, which would refuse to offer long life pujas to the Dalai Lama (to support him politically, that is) until the ban was enforced.
I think most Gelugpas are not like this, but the politicky ones are, and the Gelugpas have been in charge in the office of the Dalai Lama.
I think that unfortunately it is the other way round, the Dalai Lama being illegitimately in charge of, or putting his nose in, Gelugpa affairs.
So the Dalai Lama doesn't really want what the west wants--- because he's had to have an actual democracy, at least eventually.
If so, please show where is the “democracy” in Western puppet states and bloodthirsty medieval tirannies such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Kwait, Egypt and many many others, all of them lavishly supported, both economically and politically, by Western “democracies”, specially US and UK?
Also, there are many other Western-supported pseudo-democracies, with such a fake electoral process that in end it is always the international banksters and their local associates making the day. What is the pseudo-democratic CTA after all?
In other words, the “democracy” farce is hardly an impediment for the establishment of a local US-supported tyranny. Actually, the “democratic” facade is just an ingredient allowing for such spurious regimes, and giving them an air of legitimacy, so that the assault against the people keeps going on.
It's harder to be in control in a democracy, unless you are an American bank:).
Rather the other way round: no regime is more easily manipulated by banksters, mainly through corruption and the private control of mass media, than a so-called “electoral democracy”. Just look at the sad state of the US itself.
-
Dalai Lama aims to rock Tibet's foundation: white paper
BEIJING, Oct. 22 (Xinhua) -- The true aim of the 14th Dalai Lama and his clique in exile is to rock the systemic foundations that have ensured the development and progress of Tibet, says a white paper issued on Tuesday.
The Dalai Lama and his clique are conducting separatist activities for a long time to sabotage Tibet's development and stability, and it aims to "overthrow the socialist system and the system of regional ethnic autonomy that is practiced in Tibet," says the white paper "Development and Progress of Tibet" issued by the Information Office of the State Council.
After the failure of their armed rebellion in 1959, they fled abroad and began to harass China's borders for years. In recent years, they have put forward the so-called concepts of "Greater Tibet" and "a high degree of autonomy," which in fact go against China's actual conditions, and violate the Constitution and relevant laws, it says.
"The development and changes in Tibet are obvious to everyone. Any fair-minded person would be filled with amazement, and anyone who cares about Tibet will be pleased to see all this," it added.
However, a handful of people just turn a blind eye to the facts, and attack and deny Tibet's development path and modernization drive that people of all ethnic groups strive for, says the white paper.
"There are some others in the world who intentionally distort the past and present of Tibet due to their ideological bias or out of consideration for their self interests. They created a 'Shangri-La' myth, wishing to keep Tibet in a backward primitive state forever," it says.
The development and progress of Tibet over the past 60 years has proved that the people in Tibet and the people of the rest of the world have equal right to enjoy the achievements of modern civilization, to improve the quality of life, and to choose their own way of life, the white paper says.
-
What a sad state of affairs!
While other lamas of all lineages strive to maintain and spread their precious lineages, inside Tibetan areas and outside them, in China and abroad, with little to no consideration for mundane concerns, thus upholding the teachings of the Buddha and benefitting innumerable sentient beings without any bias or discrimination, this disgraceful Gelugpa tulku cannot think of anything except for power and territory, for himself and for a bunch of greedy aristochrats, unhappy to see their former lands generously distributed among their ex-slaves!
What a contrast with the noble example set by true masters such as Lord Buddha and Lord Atisha who, although born as princes with immense power, did not hesitate to give up everything in order to show to others the path to enlightenment!
What a shame! What a disgrace to the Buddha's lineage!
-
[quote author=jspitanga link=topic=4370.msg48164#msg48
But not that the Dalai Lama is not currying favor with other sects, as he does, specially with the Nyingma, since the 5th.
By the way (and despite the noble attitude of Penor Rinpoche and possibly other Nyingma lamas), the very ban of Dorje Shugden seems to be related to a demand from some Nyingma quarters, which would refuse to offer long life pujas to the Dalai Lama (to support him politically, that is) until the ban was enforced.
Do you have a reference for this? I am just curious. I would imagine that there was some political nonsense going on there as well; I would doubt the Nyingmas were worried about this deity until it became politically helpful to do so.
I think most Gelugpas are not like this, but the politicky ones are, and the Gelugpas have been in charge in the office of the Dalai Lama.
I think that unfortunately it is the other way round, the Dalai Lama being illegitimately in charge of, or putting his nose in, Gelugpa affairs.
Point taken:). Though a lot of Gelugpas are good enough actors that I sometimes forget they didn't all want religion and politics mixed; I have always felt sorry for Gelugpas that they have to deal with the god-king in their sect. I have to also admit to have very strong imprints of fear when it comes to pandits hats; I sincerely love Je Tsongkapa but only when I see a Dorje Shugden somewhere near his statue.
So the Dalai Lama doesn't really want what the west wants--- because he's had to have an actual democracy, at least eventually.
If so, please show where is the “democracy” in Western puppet states and bloodthirsty medieval tyrannies such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Kwait, Egypt and many many others, all of them lavishly supported, both economically and politically, by Western “democracies”, specially US and UK?
Also, there are many other Western-supported pseudo-democracies, with such a fake electoral process that in end it is always the international banksters and their local associates making the day. What is the pseudo-democratic CTA after all?
In other words, the “democracy” farce is hardly an impediment for the establishment of a local US-supported tyranny.
[/quote]
It may be a democracy farce, but they have to have some attempt at it looking something like a democracy at some point. Otherwise it would be difficult to continue the mythology associated with manifest destiny (an American concept that everyone needs to be like the U.S. and that the U.S. should spread its ideology around the world. Similar to what China is allegedly doing with communism, only with capitalist-based democracy). So I've never thought real democracy is possible with capitalism, since obviously one big way to control people is through money.
-
The Dalai Lama reiterates he is seeking genuine autonomy and not independence for Tibet.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama speaking during his talk at the Beacon Theater in New York on October 20, 2013.
DHARAMSHALA, October22: Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama who is currently on fortnight visit to the United States re-affirmed his commitment to the Middle-Way Approach to resolve the issue of Tibet on Sunday.
“Our stand is not to seek independence but genuine autonomy. We want to modernize Tibet. But we must be able to preserve our fragile natural environment, whose waters serve a billion people in Asia, and we must be able to protect our culture, language and religion,” the Dalai Lama said at a public talk on the virtue of non-violence at Beacon Theatre in New York City.
He further noted that the Middle Way Approach is in the interests of all concerned. "A small group want complete independence, but they have come up with no method for achieving it. They have no strategy. We have to be realistic.”
The Nobel laureate also explained the difference between violence and non-violence. He stressed that non-violence is not an excuse for inertia and that violence is invariably related to a strong sense of self-centredness and to the notion of ‘us’ and ‘them’.
He said, over the last 60 years four distinct eras in China can be seen. "Mao’s era of ideology, Deng Xiaoping’s era of creating wealth, Jiang Zemin’s welcoming the better-off into the party and Hu Jintao’s not entirely successful attempts to secure a harmonious society. Harmony is essential, but it is secured by trust and respect not by the use of force," the Tibetan leader said.
“Now a new era associated with Xi Jinping and Li Keqiang has begun, in which it may be hoped they will exercise common sense and follow Deng’s admonition to seek truth from facts.”
Since 2009, 122 Tibetans have set themselves on fire in Tibet calling for freedom in Tibet and return of His Holiness the Dalai Lama to Ti
-
Do you have a reference for this? I am just curious.
My informant was a Gelugpa monk on the Dalai Lama's side, in Bodhgaya, by June 2001. He described it as a fact of general knowledge, not as any secret.
I would imagine that there was some political nonsense going on there as well; I would doubt the Nyingmas were worried about this deity until it became politically helpful to do so.
Probably the source of the Nyingma hatred against the Protector together with his incarnation lineage starts with some Nyingmapas' dissatisfaction with the the great Büton, who did not include Nyingma Tantras lacking the Sanskrit original in his compilation of the Kangyur, and even earlier with Sakya Pandita, who rejected some key Nyingma teachings. It apparently continued with the murdering of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen by a Bhutanese Nyingmapa hired by the Desi Sangye Gyatso, if not by the 5th Dalai Lama himself, probaly in an attemp to mute (whence the kata down the throat) any possible criticism of the 5th's Gelug-Nyingma politico-religious mix, and then with the Nyingmapa masters hired by the very same 5th Dalai Lama to destroy Dorje Shugden, and continues down to our days, with widespread hysteria among most Nyingmapas I am aware of over a mere reference to the Protector, let alone the mention of his name or the display of his image. Contemporary Nyingma teachers such as Dudjom Rinpoche even produced amulets to “protect” against the Protector; Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche or his father Urgyen Rinpoche (Ka-Nyin) would be the ones behind the statue of a Nyingma protector trampling on Dorje Shugden, so vigorously condemned by the previous Karmapa; Namkhai Norbu is famous for his uncontrollable Protector-phobic crisis, and so forth.
Therefore, the ban against Dorje Shugden seems to be a Nyingma issue to the bones, the 5th, 13th and 14th Dalai Lamas enforcing the ban precisely because of their Nyingma connections.
So much so that the 7th Dalai Lama, a true practitioner who never mixed traditions (and therefore is looked down by the current 14th), did not enforce any ban. And what was behind the early deaths of the 8th through the 12th Dalai Lamas would be an interesting topic of study.
On the positive side, there is the noble attitude of Penor Rinpoche, plus, reportedly, the lack of any hostility from the side of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
So I've never thought real democracy is possible with capitalism, since obviously one big way to control people is through money.
As said good old Aristotle: ”As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth”.
So, if as in capitalism, the end is wealth, what we get is either tyranny or oligarchy, never democracy.
-
Thank you jspitanga for telling me about some Nyingmas' 'fear' of Dorje Shugden.
My goodness. How silly to tell people that we have a ghost---- actually among the last people who ought to be afraid of ghosts and difficult to subdue demons should be the Nyinmgas--- since they rely on Padmasambava who always subdued demons and converted them to dharma.
So if Dorje Shugden is still around, then they should figure he mustn't be that bad--- since Padmasambava could obviously handle a ghost.
-
The Dalai Lama is hopeful of automony for Tibet.
(CBS News) The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to the Dalai Lama in 1989. He's the spiritual leader for millions of people and an international symbol for millions of others. However, the Dalai Lama insists he is only a simple Buddhist monk
Tenzin Gyatso is the 14th Dalai Lama and the only one who has visited America. During his trip to New York this past weekend, the 78-year-old spiritual leader spoke six different times.
He told "CBS This Morning" co-host Norah O'Donnell that his message in the United States was that "anger, hatred, fear is very bad for our health."
"More and more scientists really showing interest about -- our mental system, system of emotion," he said.
He also said his message was about "how to become a happy human being."
The Dalai Lama is known for his humor and, of course, for his holiness. Tibetan Buddhists believe that each Dalai Lama is a reincarnation of the previous one.
At age four, in 1939, Gyatso was publicly named the new Dalai Lama, but as China began occupying Tibet in the 1950s, he left for India. After more than 50 years in exile, he continues to call for Tibet's autonomy and hopes china's new leadership will listen.
O'Donnell asked the Dalai Lama if he has talked to Chinese President Xi Jinping and while he hasn't, he said his Chinese friends have told him that this new regime has a "more liberal, more open-minded" way of thinking. He is hopeful that Tibet could gain autonomy.
Dalai Lama calls on China to investigate Tibet self-immolation protests
"I think too early to say, but there are -- this kind of opinions among Chinese friends," he said. "So we'll see."
Asked for his reaction to China telling world leaders not to talk to him, he said he could understand their position.
"I mean, from their own view, it is quite logical. Some of the Chinese officials consider me as a demon, so it is really worthwhile to ... stop meeting with 'demon,'" he said.
He also said that these difficult relations with China don't make him angry. After all, anger is just one of the temptations that have no place in this monk's life. The Dalai Lama told O'Donnell that he's celibate and doesn't drink or use tobacco, but that one of his weaknesses was "seeing" beautiful women.
O'Donnell asked the Dalai Lama if his successor could be a female, and he said "yes, of course."
"If the circumstance is such a female Dalai Lama can -- can be more useful, then, why not?" he said.
For more of Norah O'Donnell's interview with the Dalai Lama, watch the video in the player above.
-
Thank you jspitanga for telling me about some Nyingmas' 'fear' of Dorje Shugden.
My goodness. How silly to tell people that we have a ghost---- actually among the last people who ought to be afraid of ghosts and difficult to subdue demons should be the Nyinmgas--- since they rely on Padmasambava who always subdued demons and converted them to dharma.
So if Dorje Shugden is still around, then they should figure he mustn't be that bad--- since Padmasambava could obviously handle a ghost.
As for the Nyingma's 'aversion' to Gelug also reached a zenith during the time of Kyabje Pabongka, who was charismatic both amongst monastic and lay circles - which happen to be the stronghold of Kagyu-Nyingma lamas in certain regions of Tibet. This stirred jealousy and enmity with Kyabje Pabongka who sought to promote Lamrim, Vajrayogini and Dorje Shugden. Seen as a Gelug stalwart, there were circulating rumours that continue to this day of him destroying Guru Rinpoche's statues and converting Nyingma monasteries to Gelug. This is interesting because in his Lamrim discourse, he advocated Guru Rinpoche as the same mind stream as Lama Tsongkhapa, Atisha and Buddha Shakyamuni.
-
As for the Nyingma's 'aversion' to Gelug also reached a zenith during the time of Kyabje Pabongka, who was charismatic both amongst monastic and lay circles - which happen to be the stronghold of Kagyu-Nyingma lamas in certain regions of Tibet.
Interestingly, the time when the Nyingma's aversion to Gelug reached a zenith was also the time were the British were very cosy with the 13th Dalai Lama, who even offered them as a gift a huge chunk of Tibet (South Tibet, now Arunachal Pradesh in India) -- and, funny enough, no Tibetan “patriot” ever remembered to call him a traitor!
Therefore, it would not be unlikely a Western-Dalai-Nyingma anti-Gelug axis, each of them having their own reasons not to be happy with a strong monastic Gelug organization, specially, in the case of the Dalai Lama, if this monastic organization is not focused on himself, but on the “spirit” of his most hated rival.
This stirred jealousy and enmity with Kyabje Pabongka who sought to promote Lamrim, Vajrayogini and Dorje Shugden. Seen as a Gelug stalwart, there were circulating rumours that continue to this day of him destroying Guru Rinpoche's statues and converting Nyingma monasteries to Gelug.
Funny rumours indeed, which never specify which monasteries were forcibly converted and when, and where was the powerful “army” Pabongkha Rinpoche would need for the task.
But it is credible that some Nyingmas did convert to Gelug as a consequence of Pabongkha's powerful teachings, and that disgruntled Nyingma leaders had to tell the tale in a different way.
This is interesting because in his Lamrim discourse, he advocated Guru Rinpoche as the same mind stream as Lama Tsongkhapa, Atisha and Buddha Shakyamuni.
But maybe not the same mindstream as the mythical “Padmasambhava” emerging from the termas, strongly refuted as a fantasy, for instance, by the foremost Tibetan historian, Taranatha.
-
So does the Dalai Lama believe China’s leaders may be more willing to negotiate with him over conditions in Tibet than in the past? Beijing has long accused him of covertly seeking independence for about one-quarter of China’s land mass, despite his insistence that he only wants autonomy for ethnic Tibetans within China. Hardliners believe Tibetan religiosity, identity and resistance to Beijing will fade once the ageing Dalai Lama leaves the scene. What do you say?
-
Hardliners believe Tibetan religiosity, identity and resistance to Beijing will fade once the ageing Dalai Lama leaves the scene. What do you say?
I would say that, as soon as the Western puppet Dalai enters the garbage bin of history, the scenario will be quite different:
Tibetan religiosity will increase, because it will not anymore be polluted by the Dalai's spurious mixing of religion with politics;
the sense of identity of Tibetan people will increase, because they will realize that they have a pure Dharma to preserve and be proud of, and thus were not born to be the cannon fodder of Western barbarian materialistic expansionistic imperialistic mass-murdering geopoliticians, as the unscrupulous Dalai and his minions, with a motivation of personal profit, want them Tibetans to be; and
resistance to Beijing will fade away because Tibetans together with hundreds of millions of devout Chinese Buddhists will see that united they will be able to counter the ongoing invasion and mass destruction of Buddhist lands and people by the hordes of Western Abrahamic barbarians, as delineated by their supreme mentor, the Jew Henry Kissinger (in case you doubt it, please read his own words at http://www.globalresearch.ca/accurate-satire-henry-kissinger-if-you-can-t-hear-the-drums-of-war-you-must-be-deaf/?print=1 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/accurate-satire-henry-kissinger-if-you-can-t-hear-the-drums-of-war-you-must-be-deaf/?print=1)).
-
This is interesting because in his Lamrim discourse, he advocated Guru Rinpoche as the same mind stream as Lama Tsongkhapa, Atisha and Buddha Shakyamuni.
But maybe not the same mindstream as the mythical “Padmasambhava” emerging from the termas, strongly refuted as a fantasy, for instance, by the foremost Tibetan historian, Taranatha.
Padmasambava and Guru Rinpoche are the same Buddha:); and I would say a lot of the more modern termas, like Migur Dorje's Sky Treasures--- Migur Dorje was Milarepa and Padmasambava, I'm told by Palyul Nyingmas; so in the Kadam emanation scripture--- basically only holy beings could see, it, which is similar to Nyingma sky treasure termas.
Yes the Gelugs and Nyinmgas are a little funny about each other's holy texts sometimes, but I think it is because people had these holy texts from Padmasambava, and then the dharma degenerated, and false teachers mistaught the teachings.
So it's not that there is anything bad at all about termas, as long as they are really from Padmasambava, but the issue becomes how can we tell if it is from Padmasambava.
I think to me, that the Kadam emanation scripture sounds like terma, but only from Buddha Manjushri rather than Buddha Padmasambava.
Now, here I am on a site which has a lot of very pure Gelugpa practioners, so please tell me how do you see that?
And to me, I am really delighted to hear that Padmasambava is supposed to be Je Tsongkapa; I actually had that the other way around in my mind:). And I think Guru Rinpoche is more wrathful, so he would correspond to Dorje Shudgden.
-
My point is not indeed about the legitimacy, or lack thereof, of teachings found in unusual ways, such as the Prajnaparamita sutras found among the Nagas or the teachings of Maitreya found in Tushita, and so forth, neither is it about Padmasambhava being Atisha being Tsongkhapa, and so forth.
My point is rather about the stark distinction between an actual Padmasambhava, as recorded by historians such as Taranatha (which might explain why Jonangpas are another target of Nyingma hatred), and the mythological, politically designed Padmasambhava, emerging centuries after the fact from the terma literature.
One thing is to dismiss a teaching just because it is a terma, another completely different is to accept a teaching just because it is a terma. However, both attitudes are the same, in that they equally contradict Buddha's teachings.
-
My point is not indeed about the legitimacy, or lack thereof, of teachings found in unusual ways, such as the Prajnaparamita sutras found among the Nagas or the teachings of Maitreya found in Tushita, and so forth, neither is it about Padmasambhava being Atisha being Tsongkhapa, and so forth.
My point is rather about the stark distinction between an actual Padmasambhava, as recorded by historians such as Taranatha (which might explain why Jonangpas are another target of Nyingma hatred), and the mythological, politically designed Padmasambhava, emerging centuries after the fact from the terma literature.
One thing is to dismiss a teaching just because it is a terma, another completely different is to accept a teaching just because it is a terma. However, both attitudes are the same, in that they equally contradict Buddha's teachings.
Okay, I am not always clear on why the Nyingmas and Gelugpas sometimes have issues with each other; I didn't know about the political version of Padmasambava, for instance.
I do know only of the pure Padamasambava, though I certainly know his teachings got misued. We can of course take any pure figure and weave our impure motives, be they political or otherwise impure (such as enjoying drinking and consorts for impure reasons).
I am just saying that I really am happy to find out that Je Tsongkapa and Padmasambava (the uncorrupted Buddha, not a later political interpretation) are seen as the same continuum by some high Gelug lamas.
This is very meaningful to me on a spiritual level, and also helps explain perhaps why I couldn't tell Dorje Shugden from Guru Rinpoche at one point. It's also helpful if we think how some confused people will try to use Guru Rinpoche against Dorje Shugden (???); if we can just notice to get over these attitudes, it would go a long way in solving our problems.
-
I didn't know about the political version of Padmasambava, for instance.
It is just the apotheotic re-creation of Padmasambhava by the tertön, merely aimed at legitimizing himself, the tertön, as an authority -- not different from the Baron of Münchhausen, who rescued himself (and his horse) out of the quicksand by pulling his own hairs.
A clever trick, which has little to do with miraculously obtained teachings such as the Prajnaparamita sutras or the texts of Maitreya.
I do know only of the pure Padamasambava, though I certainly know his teachings got misued.
Or, more precisely, his image was manipulated and misused, as a political tool, to give authority to the tertön.
-
As to the “teachings” of Padmasambhava there are none, except for a commentary to one chapter of a Nyingma-only tantra, lately and dubiously ascribed to him, where the Iranian-Manichaeist-Bönpo-non-Buddhist “dzogchen” theory (“Let's awaken the already awakened state”) plays no role.
The rest is essentially Bönpo and Nyingma (and even Gelugpa, remember the “great” 5th) tertön self-serving politically designed mythology.
-
As to the “teachings” of Padmasambhava there are none, except for a commentary to one chapter of a Nyingma-only tantra, lately and dubiously ascribed to him, where the Iranian-Manichaeist-Bönpo-non-Buddhist “dzogchen” theory (“Let's awaken the already awakened state”) plays no role.
The rest is essentially Bönpo and Nyingma (and even Gelugpa, remember the “great” 5th) tertön self-serving politically designed mythology.
[/quote
I think we have teachings from Padmasambava much like from Milarepa; it might not necessarily be written down, because not everything has to come from a book. ;)
-
I think we have teachings from Padmasambava much like from Milarepa; it might not necessarily be written down, because not everything has to come from a book. ;)
Padmsambhava's personality cult is essential for Nyingma's self-identity and self-assertion. Thus, Nyingmapas will ascribe most everything to Padmasambhava.
However, the Buddha's first advice on reliability was to rely on the teaching, not on the personality of the teacher.
-
Padmsambhava's personality cult is essential for Nyingma's self-identity and self-assertion. Thus, Nyingmapas will ascribe most everything to Padmasambhava.
However, the Buddha's first advice on reliability was to rely on the teaching, not on the personality of the teacher.
It's important to be able to ascribe everything to Buddha Shakyamuni or Buddha Vajradhara, otherwise it is not Buddhism. This is the problem with Termas and to a lesser extent, the problem with Dorje Shugden practice as people claim it wasn't taught in the Sutras or the Tantras. We have our own Terma called the Kadam Emanation Scripture.
-
It's important to be able to ascribe everything to Buddha Shakyamuni or Buddha Vajradhara, otherwise it is not Buddhism.
Nyingmapas even claim that Padmasambhava is higher and more accomplished than the Buddha himself.
The funny thing is that they insist on calling themselves ”Buddhists”, rather than “Padmasambhavists”.
This is the problem with Termas and to a lesser extent, the problem with Dorje Shugden practice as people claim it wasn't taught in the Sutras or the Tantras.
I cannot see anything in the Dorje Shugden practice that cannot be traced back to the sutras and tantras.
On the other hand, I cannot see anything in the sutras and tantras that supports the terma's politically designed Padmasambhava personality cult, or the tertön's tricks aimed at political self-legitimation.
We have our own Terma called the Kadam Emanation Scripture.
Which, as far as I can ascertain, is thoroughly free from the above faults, specifically those of mixing Dharma with politics.
-
Padmsambhava's personality cult is essential for Nyingma's self-identity and self-assertion. Thus, Nyingmapas will ascribe most everything to Padmasambhava.
However, the Buddha's first advice on reliability was to rely on the teaching, not on the personality of the teacher.
It's important to be able to ascribe everything to Buddha Shakyamuni or Buddha Vajradhara, otherwise it is not Buddhism. This is the problem with Termas and to a lesser extent, the problem with Dorje Shugden practice as people claim it wasn't taught in the Sutras or the Tantras. We have our own Terma called the Kadam Emanation Scripture.
Ah, good, this is what I think too--- that both are termas--- :). Now, Lineaegholder, do you have a source for the Kadam Emanation Scripture being a terma?
It seemed like that when the Kadampas described it, but when I said so, they said that they don't have termas--- I told them that some termas weren't placed under rocks or something but came from visions to mahasiddas---:).
I like termas (the real ones) actually and I also really like the Kadam emanation scripture.
-
I like termas (the real ones) actually and I also really like the Kadam emanation scripture.
The funny thing here is that the Dalai Lama, such a fan of termas, flatly denies the very existence of the Kadam Emanation Scriputure.
-
The funny thing here is that the Dalai Lama, such a fan of termas, flatly denies the very existence of the Kadam Emanation Scriputure.
Which, among other things, mean that he lacks the respective lineage, and is irrelevant to it.
-
The funny thing here is that the Dalai Lama, such a fan of termas, flatly denies the very existence of the Kadam Emanation Scriputure.
Which, among other things, mean that he lacks the respective lineage, and is irrelevant to it.
Hi there--- do you have a reference for the DL rejecting the Kadam emanation scripture? I'm just asking, because I need it for my useful list of references regarding complete nonsense that has come from the DL's mouth.
-
Hi there--- do you have a reference for the DL rejecting the Kadam emanation scripture? I'm just asking, because I need it for my useful list of references regarding complete nonsense that has come from the DL's mouth.
Check The Union of Bliss and Emptiness, p. 69, where he says:
“The scripture on the left flower, according to some explanations, is called The Emanated Scripture of the Ear-Whispered Transmission. Although it might be very sacred, irrespective of whether such a scripture exists now or not, I do not think there is anything special in a scripture which is not mentioned in the eighteen volumes written by Lama Tsongkhapa himself. [...] For some, hearing that there is such an emanation scripture might be very inspiring, but I think there may not be such a scripture apart from the eighteen volumes.”
While the Dalai Lama, back in 1988 or before, did not “flatly deny” the Emanated Scripture's existence, as I had inaccurately said, he did doubt its existence, and did dismiss the possibility of anything special in it -- which still means that he lacks the respective lineage, and is irrelevant to it.
-
Personally i think HH Dalai Lama has been accused of seeking Tibet independence for the longest time by PRC, even with the many press releases by HH DL that he would not seek Tibet Independence but it doesnt seems to convince the PRC officials. In my own opinion, i do not think His Holiness will be allowed to go back to Tibet any sooner. The chinese policy wont change on this matter.
-
The Dalai Lama in his latest statement again reiterates for autonomy rule for Tibet for mutual benefits. He recognises that there will not be furtherance of agreement with China for a free Tibet. He concedes to co-existence not separate to China while Tibetans can capitalise on their natural strength.
Confrontation with China cannot solve Tibet issue: Dalai Lama
(http://static.dnaindia.com/images/cache/1927894.jpg)
Sunday, Dec 1, 2013, 20:48 IST | Agency: PTI
Tibetans are not insisting on independence as any confrontation with China cannot solve the issue and autonomy for the region will be mutually beneficial for both sides, Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama said today.
"We are not seeking independence for mutual benefit. (If) we insist independence, this results in confrontation but confrontation cannot solve problems," he said at a special public address here.
Stressing that Tibet's autonomy would be mutually beneficial to Tibetans and the Chinese, the 78-year-old Dalai Lama said he was "not seeking a separation". He, however, said people of Tibet should have "full sovereignty about their culture, environment, and language."
"Previously, there have been talks with the Chinese leadership but with no concrete results. Tibetans who are culturally highly developed, are also one of the pure living traditions of Buddhism and sovereignty will be mutually beneficial," he said.
"Over two years, thousands of articles in China have expressed support for the Tibetan movement. Violence was past century's mistake, and costs both sides. Whether we like it or not, we have to live together," the Dalai Lama said.
The spiritual leader also said the Chinese have accused Tibetans of being separtists and called him a "demon".
Calling himself a "refugee", a "homeless" person and the longest guest of India, he expressed gratitude towards the Indian government and said he feels both psychologically and emotionally close to the country.
Emphasising that violence has never been able to shape a better world, the Dalai Lama said that government of India, the US and the European Union have stood in full support of the "free Tibet movement".
The spiritual leader said events of violence like that in Israel-Palestine, the Shia-Sunni conflict or the conflict between Muslims and Buddhists in Burma have not created a better world, adding that "religious intolerance has made people hypocrites".
Addressing dignitaries and students from India and Bhutan, the Dalai Lama called India a living example of promoting a sense of compassion and responsibilities through secular means.
-
Will CTA hold the fort much longer after the passing of the Dalai Lama? If CTA can't succeed in seeking genuine autonomy now what makes them think they will be able to seek genuine autonomy after his passing?
I have much doubt CTA can do it. They cannot succeed genuine autonomy without lifting the Shugden ban and uniting every Tibetan in India and around the globe for greater co-operation. Genuine autonomy needs greater focus and effort from all aspects rather than some noises from them declaring their causes.
'Tibetan Cause Will Not Fade Away After the Dalai Lama'
The Tibetan government-in-exile today said their cause will not go away with the Dalai Lama and that they are determined to seek genuine autonomy within the framework of China's constitution.
"The Dalai Lama took a historical decision and devolved his political responsibilities to the elected leadership of the Central Tibetan Administration to give clear message to Beijing that leadership of the Tibet freedom movement has been entrusted to a younger generation ," Tsering Wangchuk, Press Officer of Tibetan government-in-exile said here.
Quoting his Foreign Minister Dicki Chhoyang's statement in Rome today, he said, "Whereas China is calculating that the Tibetan cause will fade when the current Dalai Lama passes away. This will not happen.
"We remain determined to finding a peaceful resolution to the situation in Tibet through the Middle Way Approach which seeks genuine autonomy within the framework of China's constitution," he added.
Wangchuk said Chhoyang had made the stand clear at Italian Senate's Extraordinary Commission for the Protection and Promotion of Human Rights.
"I am proud to say that the Tibetan spirit is strong. Through the visionary leadership of the Dalai Lama for all these years, our issue remains alive, our hopes remain buoyant," the Tibetan foreign minister-in-exile had said.
She had thanked Italian Chamber of Deputies for unanimously adopting a resolution on February 8, 2009 calling on the People's Republic of China to engage in dialogue with the Dalai Lama's envoys to resolve the Tibet issue.
She requested the Italian Senate to recommend to the Italian government to ask the Chinese government to engage in dialogue with the Dalai Lama's envoys.
-
The Dalai Lama is not certain about returning to Tibet this life time but his Prime Minister is hopeful that the Dalai Lama will return to his homeland.
The Dalai Lama is absolutely right. There is no light on this issue if Shugden ban is still enforced for it is the beginning of a big time Dorje Shugden Renaissance in the world.
Shillong, Feb 5 (IANS) The Dalai Lama Wednesday hoped the Chinese regime would find a genuine solution to the Tibet issue. However, he was unsure of returning to his homeland which he left for exile in 1959.
The Tibetan spiritual leader's optimism rose from the fact that the new Chinese president Xi Jinping is going all out against corrupt practices and is sensitive towards the rights of the people in China's countryside.
The Dalai Lama said today's Chinese intelligentsia in mainland China is more receptive to the Tibetan cause.
"I think the present (Chinese) president Xi Jinping is quite active because he is cleaning up corruption quite courageously. He spoke about the rights of the countryside people, about proper rule of law and he used words 'seeking truth from fact'. With that slogan, he actually opened the Chinese economy," the Nobel laureate told journalists here.
The Dalai Lama, on the last leg of his three-day visit to Meghalaya, also recalled his meetings with chairman Mao Zedong in the late 1950s, in what was then Peking, on the Tibet issue.
"I met chairman Mao in 1954-55 in Peking. He was like my father. I was there for five months and met several times and we developed a father-son relationship. Chairman Mao said on many occasions that Tibet cannot be treated as an ordinary Chinese province," he said.
On his possible return to his homeland, the Dalai Lama who escaped to India in 1959, said: "Nobody knows (on my return to Tibet). But I think 99 percent of Tibetans are waiting for me to return to Tibet. They always ask me to return. I told them I am ready to go to Tibet, it's my home, but the Chinese government won't allow it."
The 78-year-old Tibetan, who has considered India his second home, also disclosed that sometimes Chinese officials also urge him to return to Tibet. "At this moment if I return, it will be useful. Perhaps I may be more relaxed in prison, but with no work. I will not only lose my freedom but it will be just a waste of time. Here (in India), I am busy."
Tibetan prime minister-in-exile Lobsang Sangay Tuesday was hopeful about the Dalai Lama's return to Tibet via Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh, the route which he had used to come to India following his escape 55 years ago.
-
Dalai Lama said he is ready to go back to Tibet but China not allowing him:
HILLONG: The Dalai Lama on Wednesday said he was ready to go back to Tibet but the Chinese government is not allowing him to do so. "I am ready to go back to Tibet. It's my home. But the Chinese government does not allow me," the Dalai Lama said. The Tibetan spiritual leader was addressing the media at the Pine Wood Hotel here on Wednesday.
The Tibetan spiritual leader claimed that 99 per cent of the Tibetans, besides "some Chinese", want him to go back to Tibet. "But if I return, a demon's place will be prison. So, if I return, it will not be of much use. If I return (to Tibet) I will be relaxed in prison with no work and it will be a waste of time," the witty spiritual leader said, when asked if and when he desired to go back to his homeland.
"However, things are changing and in the next few years, the situation may be different," he said.
He went on to say that the present Chinese president is "courageously" fighting corruption and "seeking the truth from fact".
Expressing hope that in the "next few years" he would return to his homeland, the Dalai Lama said, "Nobody knows when I will return. I know 99 per cent of the people in Tibet are waiting for me... I am ready ... It's my home."
The Times of India
-
As reported by 'Times of India" the Dalai Lama considers himself 'son of India' and is happy to be in India. Indeed it is true after considering his dim prospect of returning to his homeland which probably the reason he had made a controversial issue on Dorje Shugden so that the controversy will enable DS to spread in the world and especially in China. Hence, the 15th Dalai Lama will be practising it again in China.
2 February 2014
GUWAHATI: Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama considers himself as the son of India and he was very happy here.
"A total of 54 years I am having Indian rice, chapati, tea. Now I consider myself as the son of India, son of the soil," the Dalai Lama said here on Sunday while interacting with reporters here.
"I am very happy," said the spiritual leader who was here to inaugurate a five-day Festival of Tibetan Art and Culture and deliver the First LBS Founders' Commemorative Lecture on 'A Human Approach to Peace and the Individual'.
Yesterday, he addressed an Interfaith Conclave on Peace and Religious Harmony here.