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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Big Uncle on August 03, 2010, 06:29:46 PM
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Open Letter to the 14th Dalai Lama by the 6th Reting Hutuktu
To HH Jetsun Jamphel Ngawang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama, an offering of wrathful speech and gentle words to shake the foundation of the prominent suppositions which deceive the searcher into following paths that lead to the most horrific of hells.
I pray please carefully contemplate my words, offered in the hope that many things can be restored and many destroyed.
To those that read my open letter to you and feel outraged with my tone and lack of etiquette, please calm your minds. I write with the intimacy evoked through centuries of respectful familiarity to a friend who has no desire to be flattered. Do not become engrossed in the bullshit of pompous formality but instead look at your own attitude.
As I write here of events now past and before the birth of the body that types this letter it should be said that the views I express are totally my own and the recollections expressed are those as I recall them from the time of my previous incarnation. I do not pretend to have vast clairvoyance or a mind unaffected by migration, but to assert that I have no ability would be a lie, to pretend that I can not recall the most basic of things such as previous lifetimes betrays the accomplishments of my former incarnations. I say this with no ego invested in status or making claims to be vastly realised, which in this time is mostly a cause to abuse others. I write openly so that others will record the events of our dialogue from this time forward and with the hope that a great many wrongs can be put right.
You who hold the position of temporal leader of the Tibetan people and spiritual leader to some Tibetans and others of many races: A vast burden do you shoulder. Several times I have written to you and attempted to make contact for the good of the samaya we share from lifetimes past and to fulfill our wishing prayers.
Surrounded by evil and corruption you are isolated from me, and I even doubt that you have received all the requests I have sent to you. Now out of frustration for the situation that exists I attempt in this open letter to reach you through unconventional means.
Great lies have been circulated about my former incarnation, circulated by those who seek to hide their wrongdoings and evil nature. Foul propaganda was spread to denigrate the 5th Reting Hutuktu and to muster support for the slaughter of his disciples. I fear you have been influenced by these false words and stirred to support the agenda of your true enemies. Otherwise how is it that you have not yet exposed the true demons of Tibet and the Holy Dharma?
All that you have by way of authority was initiated and bestowed by my predecessor at great sacrifice to himself. Your family enjoyed his protection, and that you even survived at the hands of your captors is owed to his blessing. Recall what happened to you as you were forced to drop my names from yours!
Although young at that time you are none the less the true incarnation of the Dalai Lama and as such have the presence of mind to discern for yourself. Surely it is not possible that you believe in your heart all the lies you were told?
Shugden lies at the heart of all the discord. Shugden is the sole source of the conflicts during my reign. Shugden was the demon who seduced the refuge from those high and low and who severed the lineage of dharma from the Gelugpas.
You were raised by a mass murderer, a thief and demon worshiper who allowed your education to be administered by those with the same traits. Do not turn a blind eye to the truth of history. All the blood spilt at Reting and other Holy places was the fulfillment of Taktra’s wishes and commands. The only thing you were shielded from in relation to the horrors committed was the truth.
You are the only Dalai Lama to have been initiated into the practice of Shugden. Would this have happened had I survived? You know it would not.
Even though at that dark time I was also surrounded by the disciples of the fallen and evil Pabongka I resisted attempts to indoctrinate me in the foul ways of the sure and certain abandoning of refuge. There are claims to the fallen vow of celibacy. Even if that were true is that not less of a defeat than the initial MURDER of hundreds then ultimately the destruction of life and nation which followed? Were all Dalai Lamas celibate? The answer is NO, and did that diminish their power of blessing? Naturally in the Ganden tradition a vow of celibacy should be taken from one who keeps it. But how this pales in significance when compared to the major defeats committed by Taktra and others whom you venerate! You should also be clear that no vow can be transmitted purely without the refuge vow being pure. Many lamas have passed away without realising refuge but none so blatantly disavowing it like Shugden practitioners!
Taktra had no noble motives behind any of his actions; that is the plain and simple truth. He killed and plundered, poisoned by worldly attachment and foul views.
The 5th Reting accused of conspiring to kill Taktra: All noble beings know that it would have been best had this been true and had it succeeded! In the Jataka we find inspiration to take upon oneself the karma of such an action in order to benefit many, including the defeated beings who are falling into the abyss of the hell realms through the actions they commit and those they intend to. You yourself have in this very lifetime stated that it is permissible to kill, provided you killed the source-trouble-maker. Do you not think those responsible for destroying the refuge of scores of beings are worthy of being put to death? Do you assert for even a moment that the 5th Reting was incapable of knowing the intentions of others?
Has a Dalai Lama ever directly supported an assassination? How the answer would shock and confuse the modern, casual, want-to-be Buddhist. What motivation could a Dalai Lama have to build armies and buy arms if not to defend the Dharma by force if necessary?
How the 5th Reting has suffered the outrageous and baseless slander right to the present day when still modern ‘spin’ is hypocritically and inappropriately applied in attempts to disparage him! Have you not participated in this?
Your thirteenth incarnation, great and strong, who was the source of refuge to my own incarnation, led fearlessly the battle to cast Shugden from the hearts and minds of all would-be dharma practitioners. You as the great Thirteenth rebuked the root of the poisonous lineage at that time only to become caught in the branches of that poisonous lineage tree in your next incarnation!
Taktra was the proverbial wolf in sheep’s clothing. My only chance of aiding you was to appease to some degree his demands. I saw the demon within him, and history records the atrocities he authorized with lust for blood, power and financial gain. No sane person can deny that besides abandoning the source of refuge he was a killer and a thief. To speak the truth brings no negative repercussions as he was not worthy of the status of GURU: He abandoned all causes to be an object of refuge.
Of Ling my heart feels deep sadness for in the beginning he was a keen and certain participant in the plot against my 5th emanation and the destruction of Tibet. An incarnate of such status abandoning refuge is a cause of great sadness. Becoming entangled in all the machinations of Shugden is a cause for revulsion. What a terrible loss.
Trijang was the force who spread the doctrine of downfall to all peoples of high and low status, Tibetan and of other races. The greatest servant of Shugden in our entire history, he succeeded in destroying the living tradition of Je Tsong Kapa. This fact is obvious to any person who studies logic with a clear mind.
Now people masquerade as monks and nuns or lay teachers of Je Tsong Kapa’s doctrine, all of them lacking the transmission of a living lineage. You have upheld the deceit, a willing partner in the continuance of lies and broken, baseless lineages.
Mostly you rely on Guru Rinpoche for the source of your blessing yet externally Shugden’s minions declare you their grand priest, the highest source of blessing in their order. Why do you continue this façade? Admit that there is no living valid Gelugpa lineage!
Every time you grant the demons who recruit for Shugden an audience, have your picture taken alongside of them, visit their centers in Asia and foreign lands: All of these actions seek to increase their fame and the damage they do. Stop this tacit support!
I once heard you tell thousands of students to report accounts of wrong and disgraceful behavior by Tibetan Lamas directly to you and that you would use your influence to investigate and shame where appropriate those who abuse their position as a teacher of Dharma.
Be true to your own words and start by acknowledging the downfall that began in your own childhood. Do not forsake the advice given by my former incarnations, whom you relied upon as a source of teaching and refuge, just as I will not forsake the advice given by your former incarnations, whom I likewise relied upon. Tears fall freely and plentifully from my eyes as I recall all the struggles to preserve the doctrine that have been our history and obligation up to this point, though I lose no sense of commitment. When I recall your former incarnations I am moved to tremble through recollection of your kindness and deeds.
I pray that you revisit the determination of your previous incarnations and contemplate deeply the war you must wage. I offer myself for your strength - may the obstacles ripen on me and not you - that you will hang the demons with the rope they have extracted through circumstances beyond our control. Turn now full circle upon the enemies of the Dharma and sever the force of their influence! Use your worldly fame to draw attention to a matter of real significance.
There is much to follow that I will write as a true record of my recollections in order to refute the poisonous speech of Shugden’s sons.
I am the sixth and only present incarnation of the Reting Tulku. I have heard of a sixth enthroned in Tibet after the murder of my previous incarnation, a fake candidate imposed upon my throne by demons and terrified supporters: Nothing more than a puppet to serve the purposes of the real destroyers and invaders of Tibet.
Reading the prophecy of your former incarnation makes all things very clear to those not blinded by distorted views. The invasion within was not caused by Reting, it was caused by Taktra and Shugden. The invasion without was the result of the collective karma of the Tibetan people propelled greatly by the acts of Taktra, Ling and Trijang, who with the help of a mutinous and evil cabinet of ministers handed Tibet’s future to Shugden and murdered all who opposed their reign of evil.
Strange that for a people who pretend to be Buddhist, Tibetans point the finger at China for their woes when it is their own karma ripening upon them! Perhaps that truth is not so popular in support of political ambitions and fund raising rhetoric? How easy it is for liars and the ignorant to make others a scapegoat and cause of blame.
As Buddhists we should be acutely aware of cause and effect. Your entanglement in all that I have briefly outlined should give you cause for regret.
In this life you have taken so very long to abandon the connection to Shugden and so long to counsel others publicly to do so. You can not protect the ignorant from the fear and confusion the truth will bring any longer. Do not take years or even months to respond to this letter, but as a matter of urgency make known your views and intentions. Those beings who actively debase the Dharma throughout the world are many, and they grow stronger and wealthier every day. Is it to be that the 14th Dalai Lama will be the one who gives in to Shugden, who takes the soft way out of dealing with the problem, who allows those who have faith in him to fall to the lower realms because the repercussions of the truth may debase his own temporal power? Will you pay just lip service to this matter without exposing the real truth?
No Bodhisattva could accept such a destiny and leave such a legacy to those who attempt to restore the sacred teachings in the aftermath of killers, whores, sellouts, thieves, liars and droves of demons.
I request of you as one who is sworn to aid others that you swiftly liberate all those ignorant of the mistaken path they follow in believing there still exists a valid Gelugpa lineage.
I pray that you will have the strength to shatter the veils of deceit that hang over your devotees, supporters and countrymen.
For either of us to pass on without being reunited and reconfirming our bonds would be the final great victory of Pabongka, Shugden and all the dark forces.
Do not allow some puffed up civil servant, full of pride and lacking the ability to even discern the most basic of truths, to reply to my plea to you!
Consider what I have said and spontaneously in the light of truth seek to meet me soon in a place uncomplicated by the attentions of the curious, suspicious and alarmed!
I reach out to you as a brother, both sons born of the victorious ones.
May a downpour of blessings rain upon us, cleansing the soiled history of all stains, making way for the brilliance of truth to shine!
May the doctrine be renewed on the basis of logic, reasoning and valid transmission!
May we both be free from the affliction of catering to the demands and expectations of worldly or demonic incarnations!
Through the blessing of Guru Rinpoche, whose teachings shine forth in this dark time, I abide with raging thunder in my heart, stirring and strengthening my resolve to destroy the enemies of the Dharma. I pray that the same noble passion will stir ever stronger in you and that we will soon meet.
Written entirely by me, the 6th Reting Hutuktu, a dim reflection of former incarnations, on the afternoon of Saturday the 22nd of July 2006 at my residence, the location for now secret, in response to continued requests from my students that I confront the tyranny of historical distortion, lies and utter falsehoods projected by the former Tibetan Government, the Tibetan Government in Exile and the zombies who masquerade as Monks, Nuns, Lamas, Geshes and Tulkus of the Ganden Tradition.
May the true intent of my expression quickly materialize in order to stop the mass migration to the lower realms of all those who sincerely set out to embrace a spiritual existence but whose future happiness is being destroyed by reliance on false doctrine and the substance-less words of demonic parrots who recite scripture without blessing and predominately occupy the highest thrones in the wealthiest monasteries.
May Je Rinpoche rain fire upon the imposters and demons and support fully all efforts the Dalai Lama makes to correct the wrongs!
May all beings that seek true Dharma meet with authentic and qualified teachers and not fall into the hands of spiritual rapists and frauds.
According to Wikipedia, there is actually 2 contenders that are recognised as the incarnation of the 6th Reting Rinpoche and the Reting Hutuktu, author of the above open letter is not recognised by the Tibetan government and living in an undisclosed location in India.
Sixth and seventh Reting Rinpoche
There were two claimants to the position of 6th Reting Rinpoche, one of whom has already deceased - Tenzin Jigme and his reincarnation
Tenzin Jigme Thutob Wangchuk was born in Lhasa in 1948. He was identified as the reincarnation of the fifth Reting Rinpoche in 1951 and enthroned in 1955. He was recognized by the Tibetan government. He stayed in Tibet when the Tibetan government went in exile in 1959 during the Tibetan diaspora.
He died in 1997 and was succeeded by a reincarnation that was appointed by the Chinese government and not considered legitimate by religious authorities.
Sixth Reting Hutuktu
Another candidate as sixth Reting Rinpoche carries his title as the sixth Reting Hutukthu. He claims that the Tibetan government continued to suppress the Reting lineage after the death of the 5th by appointing an illegitimate candidate and then abandoning him in Tibet.[8] He presently resides in an undisclosed location in India.
In an open letter to the Dalai Lama, Reting Hutuku claims that since the Dalai Lama's root Guru, Trijang Rinpoche, was a devotee of Dorje Shugden, "he succeeded in destroying the living tradition of Je Tsong Kapa." He asks that the Dalai Lama "swiftly liberate all those ignorant of the mistaken path they follow in believing there still exists a valid Gelugpa lineage."
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If this ridiculous rant is genuine, it says far more about Reting "Rinpoche" and the corrupt state of Tibetan politics than about Trijang Dorjechang!
Can you tell us what date was it written and where you found it?
Thanks.
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I have to say i am rather shocked reading that letter. >:(
If it is true that there is no valid Gelugpa lineage then i expect there to be no valid realizations either...Bullshit.
All the accounts and of students and masters all wrong ? ::)
I mean geez even from personal experience Dorje Shugden has aided me in Dharma practise ! It just goes to show how through the force of karma even a Buddha can appear in lowly forms ( To the individual ) . A bit like Maitreya appearing as a Dog to Asanga.
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There are Tulkus who are persecuted or 'outlawed' by the Tibetan govt for hundreds of years yet they still incarnate to benefit others. A govt could not ban the actions of a great being.
Just like Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen Rinpoche, Reting must stay in an undisclosed area in India. Both Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen and Reting Hutuku's incarnation are alive and well. But must stay in a location unknown to others for their safety. One day soon, no more Tibetan Govt in exile. Their days are numbered it seems to me.
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Since Big Uncle hasn't replied yet, I googled and found the letter on reting.org http://www.reting.org/openletter.html. There doesn't appear to be a date but the site was last updated in 2006... doesn't seem to be well maintained. I feel the letter really is a rant...
Anyway, I'm a bit confused. Why is Reting Hutuktu reproaching the Dalai Lama re supporting Shugden? The Dalai Lama is the one championing the campaign against Shugden!
"Mostly you rely on Guru Rinpoche for the source of your blessing yet externally Shugden’s minions declare you their grand priest, the highest source of blessing in their order. Why do you continue this façade? Admit that there is no living valid Gelugpa lineage!
Every time you grant the demons who recruit for Shugden an audience, have your picture taken alongside of them, visit their centers in Asia and foreign lands: All of these actions seek to increase their fame and the damage they do. Stop this tacit support!"
Sorry - I'm having a blonde moment and I really don't get it.
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Dear Zach & Wisdom Being,
The letter is dated if you read carefully towards the end...
"Written entirely by me, the 6th Reting Hutuktu, a dim reflection of former incarnations, on the afternoon of Saturday the 22nd of July 2006 at my residence, the location for now secret, in response to continued requests from my students that I confront the tyranny of historical distortion, lies and utter falsehoods projected by the former Tibetan Government, the Tibetan Government in Exile and the zombies who masquerade as Monks, Nuns, Lamas, Geshes and Tulkus of the Ganden Tradition."
Also yes, it is from the reting.org website that WisdomBeing found. I think the letter is not reproaching the Dalai Lama for supporting Shugden but rather wanting the Dalai Lama to expose many of his students who are secretly practicing Dorje Shugden and the author thinks the Dalai Lama knows this fact and still accepting them. The author thinks that the Dalai Lama has 'destroyed' the lineage because of that. Anybody else have any interesting interpretation of this letter? This makes me happy because there must be a lot more Lamas still practicing in secret and when everything blows over, they are ready to spread this practice to everyone. Rejoice! :D :D ;D :D ::)
Big Uncle
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My interpretation:
One human, who has been anointed by others, whines something against
Another human, who also has been anointed by others.
Tulku nagging against Tulku.
(If they both just would teach Dharma.)
;D
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Dear Zach & Wisdom Being,
The letter is dated if you read carefully towards the end...
"Written entirely by me, the 6th Reting Hutuktu, a dim reflection of former incarnations, on the afternoon of Saturday the 22nd of July 2006 at my residence, the location for now secret, in response to continued requests from my students that I confront the tyranny of historical distortion, lies and utter falsehoods projected by the former Tibetan Government, the Tibetan Government in Exile and the zombies who masquerade as Monks, Nuns, Lamas, Geshes and Tulkus of the Ganden Tradition."
Also yes, it is from the reting.org website that WisdomBeing found. I think the letter is not reproaching the Dalai Lama for supporting Shugden but rather wanting the Dalai Lama to expose many of his students who are secretly practicing Dorje Shugden and the author thinks the Dalai Lama knows this fact and still accepting them. The author thinks that the Dalai Lama has 'destroyed' the lineage because of that. Anybody else have any interesting interpretation of this letter? This makes me happy because there must be a lot more Lamas still practicing in secret and when everything blows over, they are ready to spread this practice to everyone. Rejoice! :D :D ;D :D ::)
Big Uncle
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I dunno perhapes i was just recoiling from shock at the way it was written, seemed pretty clear to me Reting doesnt like Dorje Shugden...Of course if someone would like to eludicate its hidden meaning through throwing some dough balls then im more then happy to give them a shot at it :o
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Since Big Uncle hasn't replied yet, I googled and found the letter on reting.org [url]http://www.reting.org/openletter.html.[/url] There doesn't appear to be a date but the site was last updated in 2006... doesn't seem to be well maintained. I feel the letter really is a rant...
Anyway, I'm a bit confused. Why is Reting Hutuktu reproaching the Dalai Lama re supporting Shugden? The Dalai Lama is the one championing the campaign against Shugden!
"Mostly you rely on Guru Rinpoche for the source of your blessing yet externally Shugden’s minions declare you their grand priest, the highest source of blessing in their order. Why do you continue this façade? Admit that there is no living valid Gelugpa lineage!
Every time you grant the demons who recruit for Shugden an audience, have your picture taken alongside of them, visit their centers in Asia and foreign lands: All of these actions seek to increase their fame and the damage they do. Stop this tacit support!"
Sorry - I'm having a blonde moment and I really don't get it.
No worries Wisdombeing... I was enjoying my blonde moment until I read this letter and my moment became a disturbed and confused blonde moment. I am doubtful on the authenticity of this letter. I have read hate mails in my time, and this letter feels that way. I was initially confused as the letter implicated HHDL was supporting DS practice ( I had a moment of delusional joy, i must admit) then I read the date of the letter... All hope diminished...
Big Uncle has a good point about the accusation that HHDL is not doing anything about the secret DS practitioners around him... Could it be HHDL does not want to? So that upon his passing (sorry to say) the practice can be open without any further delay?
This letter is 4 years old and much has changed. I read it as a history documentary, no right no wrong, just information.
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Quite shocking stuff that (supposedly) high Lamas should write and speak like this.
Is this Reting Rinpoche a teaching Lama? How worrisome it is that many people out there may be taking refuge under a teacher who is so overtly and explicitly speaking badly against another teacher and in such a vitriolic way.
To me, this is one of the key criteria in looking for an accepting someone as a teacher - do they have mutual respect for other teachers? How do they speak or or to other religious leaders? Other teachers? I think the real test is how they speak of other lamas and religious leaders when they don't agree with them.
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I don't know much about the current Reting Lama but this is an interesting article about the previous incarnation:
http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/dalai-lama/the-false-dalai-lama/ - this is an extract from "The Great Deception" and describes how Reting Lama identified the 'false' dalai lama. I don't know how true this story is... but I still believe that the Dalai Lama is who he is.. yes i'm pretty stubborn :)
Anyway, if we are focusing on Reting Lama here, in the above article, Reting Lama was executed by the government for deceit. It would be strange for him to now write and say how close they were in a previous life?
Re whether it's a real letter or hate mail, as mentioned by diamond girl, i am more inclined that it is real since it appears to be an official reting.org website. However, getting a domain name isn't that difficult, i don't think.
I still find the whole thing strange. :)
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Just realised the Trijang Rinpoche article has been recently removed from Wikipedia. Anybody knows why? Can it be retrieved? Smacks like part of wider campaign to make this most precious Lama forget.
SB
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Small Being, you are right! It has been removed. I also wonder why. That's very sad.
Copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijang_Rinpoche
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Copied from [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijang_Rinpoche[/url]
Trijang Rinpoche
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.
22:14, 10 August 2010 Moriori (talk | contribs) deleted "Trijang Rinpoche" ? (G12: Unambiguous copyright infringement: from [url]http://www.loselingmonastery.org/index.php?id=52&type=p[/url])
Hmmm ... just checked the Drepung Loseling site and Trijang Rinpoche has been removed from their Teachers site, too. So I don't see any copyright infringement given for deleting the Wikipedia entry.
I believe the entry can be retrieved somewhere from dorjeshugden.com and put back in. Or maybe in this forum there is anyone who might be able reverse the Wikipedia deletion?
SB
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Since Big Uncle hasn't replied yet, I googled and found the letter on reting.org [url]http://www.reting.org/openletter.html.[/url] There doesn't appear to be a date but the site was last updated in 2006... doesn't seem to be well maintained. I feel the letter really is a rant...
Yes, it does seem very much like a rant. A lot of rambling, poor reting! It can be very worrying that letters like this are posted on his official website, making it look like it is something spiritual or authoritative when it clearly is not and in fact is very destructive to the name of dharma. We must always be on our guard with letters like this, written in the name of someone who has a big name or a lot of supposed or assumed power. I find it highly suspicious already that he talks about what he remembers from his past life very early on in the letter. I thought Gelugpas emphasise humility and never encourage talking about such things! So what is he proving.
Take it with a pinch of salt. There is so much politicking in the spiritual sphere these days that it is sometimes hard to really see what someone's intention is no matter how muddled or confused it may be.
i would like to take my cue from the monks of shar gaden or the many brave warriors who are continuing to spread the teachings and Dharma selflessly without uttering a single word against any lama, no matter how much they may have been personally wronged. They show us the example of a true practitioner. Sure, you don't hear about them much but that's because they are doing what they do best - practice, not politicks.
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By the way, I just checked and there is a very detailed account of Trijang Rinpoche that is back up on Wikipedia - is this the same entry that a few of you had quoted above? Here is it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijang_Rinpoche
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By the way, I just checked and there is a very detailed account of Trijang Rinpoche that is back up on Wikipedia - is this the same entry that a few of you had quoted above? Here is it:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijang_Rinpoche[/url]
I was just reading through the earlier posts - true impermanence! One minute here, gone tomorrow.. and then back again. Thanks for the good news, Beggar. HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio should be on Wikipedia and everywhere and anywhere so as many people as possible can learn about this incredible being! Post it everywhere guys! The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!
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Delighted to see HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio back up on Wikipedia! Strongly agree with you, Wisdom Being,
The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!
SB
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Thanks for the good news, Beggar. HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio should be on Wikipedia and everywhere and anywhere so as many people as possible can learn about this incredible being! Post it everywhere guys! The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!
There's no evidence the TGIE wants to eradicate Trijang so why make such a suggestion? HHDL and Trijang Choktrul enjoy a very good relationship as shown here: www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl
and Rinpoche himself has declared his affection and respect for HH as his guru and preceptor while making it very clear his decision to disrobe and go to America was due to his fear of over zealous Shugden practitioners. It would seem that on the basis of Rinpoches own words any threat to him is not from the TGIE but the very people who try to claim him as their own. http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090
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Thanks for the good news, Beggar. HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio should be on Wikipedia and everywhere and anywhere so as many people as possible can learn about this incredible being! Post it everywhere guys! The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!
There's no evidence the TGIE wants to eradicate Trijang so why make such a suggestion? HHDL and Trijang Choktrul enjoy a very good relationship as shown here: [url=http://www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl]www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl[/url]
and Rinpoche himself has declared his affection and respect for HH as his guru and preceptor while making it very clear his decision to disrobe and go to America was due to his fear of over zealous Shugden practitioners. It would seem that on the basis of Rinpoches own words any threat to him is not from the TGIE but the very people who try to claim him as their own. [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090[/url]
Respectfully sir...I point out your BS.
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Respectfully sir...I point out your BS.
No need to be rude just read Rinpoches radio interview. His words not mine. Unless of course you have some evidence to the contrary.
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Thanks for the good news, Beggar. HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio should be on Wikipedia and everywhere and anywhere so as many people as possible can learn about this incredible being! Post it everywhere guys! The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!
There's no evidence the TGIE wants to eradicate Trijang so why make such a suggestion? HHDL and Trijang Choktrul enjoy a very good relationship as shown here: [url=http://www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl]www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl[/url]
and Rinpoche himself has declared his affection and respect for HH as his guru and preceptor while making it very clear his decision to disrobe and go to America was due to his fear of over zealous Shugden practitioners. It would seem that on the basis of Rinpoches own words any threat to him is not from the TGIE but the very people who try to claim him as their own. [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090[/url]
Dear Lone Hermit,
I don't doubt that HH Trijang Rinpoche has affection and respect for HH Dalai Lama.
Re my earlier post, I was referring to this:
"I doubt however that this campaign will stop there.
If you didn’t know, they have already “CLEANED UP” the LAM RIM lineage prayer and REMOVED "Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s name from that lineage.
Sherig Pharkhang, the official printer for the Department of Religion and Culture, has even removed Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s name mantra from the consecration mantras that they print.
This means that if one were to order the collection of mantras that are used to fill statues, stupas and many holy objects they WILL NOT INCLUDE Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang."
Some may wonder why we fight? Look back at the photo of young Kyabje Choktrul Rinpoche arm being held by the Dalia Lama and then think of this fact and look again into the eyes of the Dalia Lama and you see as we have said, an Imposter!
(extracted from Thomas David Canada in the Guestbook: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/Guestbook/ )
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Yes, that is right. I read the same thing and it is very sad.
If they (whoever the powers may be, and it looks like only a certain group has that kind of power) have systematically removed HH Trijang Dorje Chang's name from the mantras, then is that not the same as eradicating Trijang Rinpoche in the most obvious way?
After all, when we recite all the names of these past Masters and Gurus - among other things, we are remembering all their qualities as well as upholding the lineage in which all the teachings are being transmitted from one generation to another. As we all know, the lineage's blessings lies in the transmission and the recitation of these high lama's names.
To me, that is as good as destroying a lineage, not just a lama.
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Personally, I would think that it benefits more and more people when everyone posts more valuable information about these great Lamas everywhere. There should not be any concern for copyright infringements if the real purpose is to spread the Dharma and to clarify what has been grossly misunderstood about a high Lama, a Deity, a lineage or prayer.
If someone or group is upset about their articles or works being posted in other places, then how can dharma really spread? Then perhaps it is not really about promoting the dharma that one is so concerned about. Then may be one is more concerned about the glory one gets from writing such an article or creating such a work. Its more about self-recognition and self-praise then. That's the way I would see it.
May be it is just me - but if we truly cared about the misunderstandings and unfair discrimination that are being hurled at certain Gurus, and at our Protector, Dorje Shugden - then we should be very happy to create and allow as many information and facts to surface and spread in order to dispel the misunderstandings, to clarify and most of all, to cultivate deeper understanding.
Is that not what we want - to promote our Protector, to promote more Dharma and peace to all?
Just sharing my thoughts openly here.
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Personally, I would think that it benefits more and more people when everyone posts more valuable information about these great Lamas everywhere. There should not be any concern for copyright infringements if the real purpose is to spread the Dharma and to clarify what has been grossly misunderstood about a high Lama, a Deity, a lineage or prayer.
If someone or group is upset about their articles or works being posted in other places, then how can dharma really spread? Then perhaps it is not really about promoting the dharma that one is so concerned about. Then may be one is more concerned about the glory one gets from writing such an article or creating such a work. Its more about self-recognition and self-praise then. That's the way I would see it.
May be it is just me - but if we truly cared about the misunderstandings and unfair discrimination that are being hurled at certain Gurus, and at our Protector, Dorje Shugden - then we should be very happy to create and allow as many information and facts to surface and spread in order to dispel the misunderstandings, to clarify and most of all, to cultivate deeper understanding.
Is that not what we want - to promote our Protector, to promote more Dharma and peace to all?
Just sharing my thoughts openly here.
You bring up a good point, Helena.
I was told that when we do Dharma, we must always ensure our motivation is free from the Eight Worldly Preoccupations, namely:
The eight worldly preoccupations (or concerns) or samsaric dharmas (Wyl. ‘jig rten chos brgyad) are where all one’s actions are governed by:
* hope for happiness and fear of suffering,
* hope for fame and fear of insignificance,
* hope for praise and fear of blame,
* hope for gain and fear of loss;
basically attachment and aversion.
http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Eight_worldly_preoccupations
(hmm am i gonna be done for copyright infringement for posting this here)
I know it's not easy to be free of these preoccupations after lifetimes about being concerned about this is MINE. Again, it's the hippy in me who wishes that everything belongs to everyone. Yes, sometimes I wish I could be living in a commune at Findhorn :)
I agree with you that if we have a Dharma motivation, we should be happy if what we are writing is spread everywhere - whether we have the credit or not shouldn't matter. But saying that, i guess we have to understand that people are at different levels in the Dharma, which is why some people will react if they see what is perceived as theirs being used. So we have to have compassion for them because they don't know better. That will help us have less frustration. Saying that, I don't mean that we don't try to help them, which you are doing here in your post. :)
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Dear Lone Hermit,
I don't doubt that HH Trijang Rinpoche has affection and respect for HH Dalai Lama.
Re my earlier post, I was referring to this:
"I doubt however that this campaign will stop there.
If you didn’t know, they have already “CLEANED UP” the LAM RIM lineage prayer and REMOVED "Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s name from that lineage.
Sherig Pharkhang, the official printer for the Department of Religion and Culture, has even removed Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s name mantra from the consecration mantras that they print.
This means that if one were to order the collection of mantras that are used to fill statues, stupas and many holy objects they WILL NOT INCLUDE Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang."
(extracted from Thomas David Canada in the Guestbook: [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/Guestbook/[/url] )
OK I see what you mean WB thanks. Can anyone else prove that this is really happening because I don't think our recently departed friend TC is a reliable source. It would be good if someone who lives in India and reads Tibetan can confirm it.
Helena says:
If they (whoever the powers may be, and it looks like only a certain group has that kind of power) have systematically removed HH Trijang Dorje Chang's name from the mantras, then is that not the same as eradicating Trijang Rinpoche in the most obvious way?
Yes 'IF' so some proof would be nice and probably even necessary before we go around making accusations like this. Even if it's true it doesn't change the fact that Rinpoche seems to enjoy a good relationship with HHDL and vice versa - I'm sure HH didn't go to Trijang Institute in Vermont uninvited and I would be surprised if the picture of His Holiness in not on display in the shrine room. It would be interesting to have confirmation of this one way or the other as well.
It looks like lot of people want to believe there is a serious rift between these two holy beings, as if there was a major breach in their spiritual relationship, but that doesn't seem to be the case. IMHO Rinpoche shows a good example in choosing to distance himself from the messy and sometimes violent politics of the Shugden affair without abandoning his connection to the protector and without any implied or actual criticism of HH or the monasteries and Lamas who have given up the practice.
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It is true that the "dilemma" that Trijang Rinpoche faces is the same that many countless lamas go through today. This is what makes it very difficult and many find themselves on both sides of the the camp without intending to go against either side. From the average practitioner to high lamas, there is a definite and strong conflict that many have to struggle with as they attempt to reconcile their practice of the protector with their continued respect and allegiance to the dalai lama.
This is why it is quite sad to see that many people are quick to criticise the dalai lama or, on the other hand, go all out to crush DS practitioners. the situation becomes split into two extremes, so either you practice ds but must speak against dalai lama or you follow dalai lama but must denounce ds. There is a huge, huge majority that exist in the "grey area" in between the two. We just don't hear about them because they are not up in arms speaking against any side. They are quietly doing their practices while refusing to say anything bad about either side.
This is why I also find it quite sad when I am criticised for not speaking against the dalai lama or criticising him because I know for a sure fact that there are many people out there who also choose to not speak against the dalai lama and see him still as their teacher, as Chenrezig. It is also confusing and difficult for them to hear negativities hurled against the dalai lama in the same way that it hurts for them to hear bad things being done to ds practitioners and places of worship.
Lamas like Trijang Rinpoche demonstrate a lot of courage for us because he is forced into a spotlight where he HAS to speak for or against one side. Even then, he shows us with his great wisdom and skilfulness how to still not speak against either and still attempt to maintain good relations with as many people as possible. What a true sign of a great lama and an example we can all follow to bring more peace around us. Sometimes, unfortunately, it looks like we don't have a choice but to sit on a fence for awhile until the time is right and this is not always a bad thing.
yours, beggar
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There has also been some earlier discussion about Trijang Rinpoche's name being removed from mantras. It comes from the same source (Thomas Canada, as extracted from the guestbook):
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=744.0
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This is the way it should be. We do not give up or practice of dorje shugden. We create awareness among the general public regarding his practice the best we can eg by giving brochures is one way. We help those students who wish to help the monks of dorje shugden monasteries eg tenzin sungrab. We donate to Tenzin Sungrab. We can become pen pals of monks at Serpom/Shar Gaden. Sponsor them. Get information about them and post it here and everywhere to create awareness. Send monetary donations to them. Post information here that are relevant/educational/and informational that will educate the thousands of readers who visit here and have a right to know what is happening. Negative rhetoric on the Dalai Lama convinces no one and impresses no one. These are some positive and constructive ways to expend our energy and resources for Dorje Shugen's cause.
We may not agree with some of Dalai Lama's policies. We make our stance clear, we write letters and and we refrain from harsh descriptives such as liar, dictator and hypocrite. We must present the information without sounding fanatical or motivated by anger. When we present the information such as on this forum, WE LET THE READERS DECIDE IF DALAI LAMA IS DOING WHAT HE IS DOING.
It is important NEVER TO HAVE HATE SITES THAT explicitly and obviously slander the Dalai Lama. Because we are Buddhists. Dorje Shugden would never approve of that. And it would be much better to present the information to the public and newcomers in a even and fair manner. In the end, we want Dalai Lama to retract his ban and words against Shugden, but we do not want Dalai Lama harmed in anyway. It does us no good.
So this is important to understand here. I may not be screaming down with the Dalai Lama but that does not mean I agree with his policy on Shugden. But I choose Buddhist methods that does not infringe on my Bodhisattva/tantric vows to get the point across. After all, after I die, I face my karma. The intent is good, but the method must accord.
tk
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Negative rhetoric on the Dalai Lama convinces no one and impresses no one. These are some positive and constructive ways to expend our energy and resources for Dorje Shugen's cause.
I couldn't have said it better. Thank you tk!
More than that, negative rhetoric, like tk has pointed out, also reflects very badly on us ds practitioners. People just take one look at a new report and will think, "why are there buddhists in robes standing on the street protesting against their own pope?" It doesn't matter if the protest is a peaceful protest or if they are throwing bottles and setting fires. The general public still sees that it is a protest and they wonder why a supposedly non-attached buddhist should be protesting against their own people!
When we present the information such as on this forum, WE LET THE READERS DECIDE IF DALAI LAMA IS DOING WHAT HE IS DOING.
this is most important. allow people to come to an informed decision with all the facts in place. any other way turns people's minds by fear, confusion or pressure which will then never be a firm and stable stand where they really understand what they are supposedly believing in or siding with.
there is a big misunderstanding that just because you do not denounce the dalai lama, it means you are not a "real" ds practitioner. this is such an illogical accusation. on the contrary, a real ds practitioner would never criticise or speak badly of ANYONE, least of all another lama.
Isn't dharma about learning, knowledge and understanding? then be a real dharma practitioner by giving this to others so they can form their own informed decisions. if they decide to do ds practice, then it comes from a "clear and clean" place that is not based upon hating the dalai lama or hating anyone for that matter.
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Dear Beggar,
Yes..it's not always a bad thing to sit on the fence. This really should be the "mood" of the forum. To discuss things without too much of an extreme perspective on the controversy.
It is always saddening to see such hate expressed towards HHDL...especially when it comes from people in robes. It creates a very bad image for Buddhism as a whole, let alone shugdenpas.
Although, without such terrible controversial acts, would DS be on the spotlight as much as it it today....?
DSfriend
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Dear Beggar,
Yes..it's not always a bad thing to sit on the fence. This really should be the "mood" of the forum. ...
Ah, the Swisso-Swedish option during the WWII, or the Swedo-Finnish option during the Cold War? Cool. The head in the mud, and the lower end raised in the ostrich position, while horrible things happen all around. :D Such a nobility of character and position.
Well, anyways, maybe I just think too much in the terms of Western Ethics, where it is not enough to "not kill", but to "raise your voice against those who kill". I'll guess it could be called participatory ethics, or active compassion. But who cares. The important thing nowadays in this forum seems to be that we all are friends, and nobody says anything bad about a certain person, and if they do even a little bit, to hell with those hatemongers... ;D
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Well, anyways, maybe I just think too much in the terms of Western Ethics, where it is not enough to "not kill", but to "raise your voice against those who kill". I'll guess it could be called participatory ethics, or active compassion. But who cares. The important thing nowadays in this forum seems to be that we all are friends, and nobody says anything bad about a certain person, and if they do even a little bit, to hell with those hatemongers... ;D
ah yes, but remember that a very large percentage of people suffering from this ban are people who are NOT in a western environment with western points of reference. many are tibetans living in tibetan communities or even monasteries where it is not as simple as just "raising your voice". I know for a fact many tibetans who are caught in this never-ending conundrum where they wish to keep their commitment to the protector's practice and their teachers but are in no position (spiritually, politically, financially etc etc) to simply just "raise their voices" as you have said in such an "easy" way.
have a little thought for a significant community which comes from a very different point of reference and consider how maybe this forum is trying to help them to reconcile this difficult bind within their context and world.
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..... We may not agree with some of Dalai Lama's policies. We make our stance clear, we write letters and and we refrain from harsh descriptives such as liar, dictator and hypocrite. We must present the information without sounding fanatical or motivated by anger. When we present the information such as on this forum, WE LET THE READERS DECIDE IF DALAI LAMA IS DOING WHAT HE IS DOING.
It is important NEVER TO HAVE HATE SITES THAT explicitly and obviously slander the Dalai Lama. Because we are Buddhists. ......
So when we notice that he has in fact lied, we cannot say so?
So when we notice that he has in fact dictated the harmful policies of the exiled Tibetans, we cannot say so?
So when we notice that he has in fact done himself just that what he accuses others of doing, we cannot say so?
And if we nevertheless say so, you dare call that observant speech hate and slander?
Are you, by the way, a Buddhist, or is this Buddhist idea of truthfulness and integrity just a marketing slogan?
Shouldn't we, as Buddhists, strive to truth and protection of the innocent, or are we just to protect the image of the powerful by telling lies and half-truths?
Really.
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Hi ZP
I think that people just want to protect their reputation.
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So when we notice that he has in fact lied, we cannot say so?
So when we notice that he has in fact dictated the harmful policies of the exiled Tibetans, we cannot say so?
So when we notice that he has in fact done himself just that what he accuses others of doing, we cannot say so?
And if we nevertheless say so, you dare call that observant speech hate and slander?
Are you, by the way, a Buddhist, or is this Buddhist idea of truthfulness and integrity just a marketing slogan?
Shouldn't we, as Buddhists, strive to truth and protection of the innocent, or are we just to protect the image of the powerful by telling lies and half-truths?
Really.
it has been said many times already that it is not about NOT saying anything at all but the way we present our information. There is a difference between just standing around shouting that the dalai lama is a liar OR presenting the information, facts and evidence that lead to a clear conclusion in the mind of the person you are speaking to.
THIS, i think, is already clear enough and answers your questions:
We must present the information without sounding fanatical or motivated by anger. When we present the information such as on this forum, WE LET THE READERS DECIDE IF DALAI LAMA IS DOING WHAT HE IS DOING.
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.... it has been said many times already that it is not about NOT saying anything at all but the way we present our information. There is a difference between just standing around shouting that the dalai lama is a liar OR presenting the information, facts and evidence that lead to a clear conclusion in the mind of the person you are speaking to.
THIS, i think, is already clear enough and answers your questions:
We must present the information without sounding fanatical or motivated by anger. When we present the information such as on this forum, WE LET THE READERS DECIDE IF DALAI LAMA IS DOING WHAT HE IS DOING.
Ah.
But when you take the volume of the voice into account, even you must see, that one whisper from the Powerful equals thousand shouts from the ostracized and demonized, yes?
You see, if I say "this is the fact", and the HHDL says "that is the fact", whose truth is heard? Really? Do people listen the merits of the differing arguments, or do they rather follow the flock and the Herd-Master? That difference of vocal potential is the reason why the undertrodden have to shout, in large numbers.
And why should you whine? We all here know the ban, the facts, and so forth. Only us trodden would be here, were it not for the "promotion campaign" by certain parties, those parties with the forum silencers, and a pocketfull of mass-vocalists. ;D
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Dear ZP & Mohani,
This is not a space to air your personal and political grievances.
You have been in this Forum long enough to know the house rules very well. However, I shall re-post the below for your easy reference. By participating in this Forum, your agree to abide by our forum rules. If you violate any of rules, we have no choice but to take immediate action.
Consider this your first warning. You may or may not receive a second warning. If you do not appreciate this forum's views, you are free to go elsewhere.
Thank you and have a good day.
General Discussion
We promote and value HARMONY. Please do not post anything negative about any lamas, sects, deities or anyone.
Respect
We encourage good manners and do not tolerate any rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive may be suspended, banned or deleted without warning.
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Dear ZP & Mohani,
This is not a space to air your personal and political grievances.
You have been in this Forum long enough to know the house rules very well. However, I shall re-post the below for your easy reference. By participating in this Forum, your agree to abide by our forum rules. If you violate any of rules, we have no choice but to take immediate action.
Consider this your first warning. You may or may not receive a second warning. If you do not appreciate this forum's views, you are free to go elsewhere.
Thank you and have a good day.
General Discussion
We promote and value HARMONY. Please do not post anything negative about any lamas, sects, deities or anyone.
Respect
We encourage good manners and do not tolerate any rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive may be suspended, banned or deleted without warning.
I can here only speak for me, not the netonym Mohani, but I'll really have to ask that what have supposedly I done now, that is so bad? In one post, even the netonym Admin maintained that there is "a life danger to the DS-Lamas, if they are outed", so surely all of you "in the staff" know that what I speak is true. Why would Admin fear something if what I speak is just slander or something like that? If on the other hand, the forum policy includes the ostrich option, then so be it - but just say it in public, and I shall gladly abide by it. It is just that before, we could speak freely, so you really should allow for slow ones like me some time to adjust.
I have tried to be good mannered. I am sorry if your idea of good manners differ from mine. Please try to be multicultural in your assessment of us different writers - we, the people practicing DS around the globe do differ in what we consider good manners. I do admit, that by Confucian standards, I am rude, but by the standards of my home country, I have been most courteous.
And as an afterthought, I must protest that the opinions I have presented here, during these many years, are suddenly seen as grievances, personal or political. Truth is never political or personal, nor can it's proclamation be seen as grievance.
Also, I would like to know what are the views of this forum, that I am supposed to appreciate? I always thought that my view was one of the views of this forum. Sure I appreciate all views. But what is exactly the group of "views of this forum", I ask?
yours in the Dharma,
Zhalmed Pawo
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The views upheld by this website, which this forum is under, has already been made very clear many times throughout many posts: this being that we do not speak badly against any lama, be it the Dalai Lama or any other lama, nor incite any negative speech or views against him. We have always encouraged the sharing of information and encourage readers to investigate, learn, gain information, understand and come to their own informed decisions.
What we will not tolerate is the manner in which this information is presented in critical, sarcastic or negative tones. This is not the first time this has been addressed; moderators have warned many times to be careful of the tone you are using to post or the way you are presenting information for or against any lama. We have also warned many times against posting repeatedly negative posts against the Dalai Lama.
Please be reminded that this forum is about sharing and discussing issues related to the practice of Dorje Shugden and not just a platform for repeatedly voicing the same (political) views about the Dalai Lama (or any lama) and political situations. As you repeatedly bring up the same points against the Dalai Lama in various threads (which have already been addressed), we can't help but start to think that you are not here to learn or share but to promote a political agenda.
As Dorje Shugden practitioners, we are all united in wanting to preserve and protect the lineage of this practice and Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings. May we suggest that we direct our energy and efforts towards doing this instead of always returning to the same political points, upon which we have long ago agreed to disagree upon? For a start, Zhalmed Pawo, I am sure that as DS practitioner, you have received plenty of benefit from the practice. May we humbly invite you to share how this practice has helped you in your spiritual path?
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Since Big Uncle hasn't replied yet, I googled and found the letter on reting.org [url]http://www.reting.org/openletter.html.[/url] ([url]http://www.reting.org/openletter.html.[/url]) There doesn't appear to be a date but the site was last updated in 2006... doesn't seem to be well maintained. I feel the letter really is a rant...
Yes, it does seem very much like a rant. A lot of rambling, poor reting! It can be very worrying that letters like this are posted on his official website, making it look like it is something spiritual or authoritative when it clearly is not and in fact is very destructive to the name of dharma. We must always be on our guard with letters like this, written in the name of someone who has a big name or a lot of supposed or assumed power. I find it highly suspicious already that he talks about what he remembers from his past life very early on in the letter. I thought Gelugpas emphasise humility and never encourage talking about such things! So what is he proving.
Take it with a pinch of salt. There is so much politicking in the spiritual sphere these days that it is sometimes hard to really see what someone's intention is no matter how muddled or confused it may be.
i would like to take my cue from the monks of shar gaden or the many brave warriors who are continuing to spread the teachings and Dharma selflessly without uttering a single word against any lama, no matter how much they may have been personally wronged. They show us the example of a true practitioner. Sure, you don't hear about them much but that's because they are doing what they do best - practice, not politicks.
I would like to also point out that this letter was definitely not written by the real Reting Rinpoche. It appears to be too shallow and based on popular information about the event rather than containing any actual 'insider' facts like for example, how the Dalai Lama commented on his previous incarnations in the book about the Dalai Lamas in Glenn Mullin's book. Also, the current Reting Rinpoche has gone underground and would not set up a website to attract attention. He has been recognized by mongolia (seems like many banned tulkus reappear there, lol) and he is keeping a very low profile for now due to the negative karma of his previous students who did nothing to defend his name and honor. He cannot manifest as a Dharma teacher at this time. That website itself contains information that can be easily found either in Dharamsala or online, and there are no concrete statements that a real tulku would make. For example, there are no pictures, nor are there any other writings where he does not talk about Dorje Shugden in a negative light. This website was set up by an anti Dorje Shugden person to deceive others.
For example, the part about Trichen Ngawang Chokden, the first Reting, it mentions that he banned Dorje Shugden when in fact, deeper investigations showed that he banned another spirit that was also from Dol thus using the name Dolgyal. These are the things that make me doubt this website and its contents from the start.
What is the negative karma of someone borrowing the reputation of a high lama to spread their own agendas? No wonder the website has been dead and the translation of Rain of Adamant Fire never appeared. The website itself was updated in 2006.