China is willing but unable to talk with the Dalai Lama: Chinese dissident

[Ensapa]

Hmm...I think this is an interesting news. If China lies and CTA lies, would that not make an interesting combination of liars? That is if we see things from this article's point of view, coupled by what we know about CTA, then it would indeed be a deadlock of sorts. CTA lies directly and denies many things and China over exaggerates, most of the time. It could be a two way thing as well: China is getting very tired of CTA's lies and allegations against them and refuse to engage in talks with them. It could also be that China does not even respect CTA as a country, and therefore finds no need to talk to them.

As usual, with other materials found in phayul.com, this article is heavily biased in favor of the CTA but nevertheless, it is an interesting read on the situation.

China is willing but unable to talk with the Dalai Lama: Chinese dissident
Phayul[Monday, July 09, 2012 12:29]
By Tendar Tsering

Dr Yang Jianli addresses the gathering during the public felicitation ceremony of Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay at Tsuk-la Khang, Dharamshala, India on August 9, 2011. (Phayul file photo)
DHARAMSHALA, July 9: A well-known Chinese dissident and democracy activist has said that the desire to negotiate with the Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama is very much in the heart of Chinese leaders, but the Beijing government is unable to sit down for talks.

“Many people say the Chinese government is not willing to negotiate with the Dalai Lama but that is not the fact,” a survivor of the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, Dr Yang Jianli told Phayul. “Beijing is always willing but unable to negotiate since China’s claims are based on lies and fabrications.”

Dr Jinali was recently in the Tibetan exile headquarters of Dharamshala to attend the 77th birthday celebrations of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

“Chinese central government is not being able to sit with the Dalai Lama to talk as they have limited wisdom and bad policy,” the founder and president of Initiatives for China, a pro democracy movement committed to a peaceful transition to democracy in China said.

The 1963 born scholar (Ph.D. s in Political Economy, Harvard University and in Mathematics, University of California, Berkeley) was imprisoned by the Chinese government in April 2002 for espionage and illegal entry. He was freed on April 27, 2007.

Speaking on the resignation of the two envoys of the Dalai Lama, responsible for negotiations with the Chinese government, Dr Jianli said that the change has lot to do with the transition of leadership in the exile Tibetan administration.

“Resignation is a good decision. Now it is a good chance for the Tibetan Prime Minister Lobsang Sangay to strategize and find the right person,” Dr Jianli said.

The two Envoys- Gyari Lodi Gyaltsen, and Kelsang Gyaltsen, who have led nine rounds of talks with the People’s Republic of China since 2002, cited the deteriorating situation inside Tibet and their “utter frustration” over the lack of positive response from the China as reasons for their resignations.

Dr Jianli last August attended the public inauguration of Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay and congratulated the Tibetan people for their “achievements in democracy and struggle for freedom.”

Dr Jianli had called Tibetans a “beacon of hope to many people, including Han Chinese under the rule of the communist regime.”

Why is China willing but unable to negotiate? Maybe because the ban is generating negative energy and causing China to not respect them?

[Vajraprotector]

Let's look at the reasons for the ban and you will know why:

1.The Dalai Lama identifies Dorje Shugden as a "spirit", and claims that the tradition of propitiation associated with Shugden elevates this spirit to being equal or superior to the Buddha. He states that encouraging the worship of Dorje Shugden could contribute to reducing Tibetan Buddhism to a form of superstitious spirit worship.

 2.The Dalai Lama states that there is an "acknowledged link" between worship of Dorje Shugden and sectarianism between the various Tibetan Buddhist schools. The Dalai Lama believes non-sectarianism is "his most important commitment", and that the worship of Dorje Shugden may be a barrier to this commitment to non-sectarianism.

 3.The Dalai Lama says that Dorje Shugden has a long history of antagonistic attitude to the Dalai Lamas and the Tibetan Government they have headed since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama. He identifies the 5th and 13th Dalai Lamas as having specifically spoken out against Dorje Shugden as a threat "to the welfare of beings in general and the Tibetan government headed by the Dalai Lamas in particular". He states that in light of the current difficult situation endured by the Tibetan people, it is particularly important to resist the worship of Dorje Shugden as a potentially divisive practice.

If a serious ban is imposed, and these were the petty reasons given (in blue) and yet not explained well with proof, they sounded more like accusation or hear-say. How can China negotiate with the Dalai Lama or the people who impose this ban?

Also, accusations (in red) that Shugden practice may be a barrier to non-sectarianism-  while it is obviously practised in Sakya and Kagyu as well, and that it is a potentially divisive practice-  although Shugden was considered area protector for some areas, these are creating more negative circumstances and obstacles to arise.

In Praise of the protector Dorje Shugden composed by the great Sakyapa master Kunkhyen Ngawang Kunga Lodroe,

For entire Tibet, included in upper region Ngari, central region Ue-tsang, and lower region Dokham,
you act as the very protector, refuge, supporter, and friend of all people without exception,
thus you are the very god of the snow-land country, I prostrate to you.

[Ensapa]

Let's look at the reasons for the ban and you will know why:

1.The Dalai Lama identifies Dorje Shugden as a "spirit", and claims that the tradition of propitiation associated with Shugden elevates this spirit to being equal or superior to the Buddha. He states that encouraging the worship of Dorje Shugden could contribute to reducing Tibetan Buddhism to a form of superstitious spirit worship.

 2.The Dalai Lama states that there is an "acknowledged link" between worship of Dorje Shugden and sectarianism between the various Tibetan Buddhist schools. The Dalai Lama believes non-sectarianism is "his most important commitment", and that the worship of Dorje Shugden may be a barrier to this commitment to non-sectarianism.

 3.The Dalai Lama says that Dorje Shugden has a long history of antagonistic attitude to the Dalai Lamas and the Tibetan Government they have headed since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama. He identifies the 5th and 13th Dalai Lamas as having specifically spoken out against Dorje Shugden as a threat "to the welfare of beings in general and the Tibetan government headed by the Dalai Lamas in particular". He states that in light of the current difficult situation endured by the Tibetan people, it is particularly important to resist the worship of Dorje Shugden as a potentially divisive practice.

If a serious ban is imposed, and these were the petty reasons given (in blue) and yet not explained well with proof, they sounded more like accusation or hear-say. How can China negotiate with the Dalai Lama or the people who impose this ban?

Also, accusations (in red) that Shugden practice may be a barrier to non-sectarianism-  while it is obviously practised in Sakya and Kagyu as well, and that it is a potentially divisive practice-  although Shugden was considered area protector for some areas, these are creating more negative circumstances and obstacles to arise.

In Praise of the protector Dorje Shugden composed by the great Sakyapa master Kunkhyen Ngawang Kunga Lodroe,

For entire Tibet, included in upper region Ngari, central region Ue-tsang, and lower region Dokham,
you act as the very protector, refuge, supporter, and friend of all people without exception,
thus you are the very god of the snow-land country, I prostrate to you.

Another thing i do not understand at all is why does the CTA keep telling the world they are trying to talk to China and discuss the matter on one hand, while on the other hand they insult and degrade the Chinese? I do not understand the logic: Insult China and degrade them, accuse their citizens in Dharamsala as spies, when all they could be just pilgrims who happen to be Chinese, and then expect to be able to hold talks with them on the Tibet issue. The logic does not match. It seems although they are not serious about talks with China because who in their right mind would offend someone they would like to discuss things with? And worse still, they do nothing to stop people from saying such things. All recipes to cause China to be turn their back on them. This is the exact same thing they have with the ban. They claim to be working for the freedom of the people of Tibet to practice their religion by denying that very same right to their own people? makes no sense at all.

The ban is illogical and defies all logic. the 'reasonings' given may be convincing enough for newbies and beginners who do not know much about Tibetan Buddhism, but to the more seasoned ones, we can see it right through right away. perhaps this was the intended effect?

[Vajraprotector]

Latest news, Hillary Clinton/ the US has spoken, but will there be any effect? I don't think China can be asked/ moved to do anything unless China wants to. 

 
US calls on China to hold serious dialogue on Tibet
July 14, 2012 11:32 am

DHARAMSHALA: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has called on Chinese government to hold a “serious dialogue” on the issue of Tibet during her meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi at the ASEAN Summit in Cambodia.

At a special briefing in Phnom Penh on 12 July, a senior US administrative official stated: “…And the Secretary, as is the case in all circumstances, raised both human rights issues, specific cases, and called on the Chinese to continue a serious dialogue with the Dalai Lama. I think the meeting was productive, very candid, and I think there is a clear determination that China wants to be able to find common cause with the United States on a host of issues. And I think the Secretary reciprocated.”

“I think, as befitting an increasingly global relationship, the two ministers talked about every specific matter before us: Iran, Syria, cyber issues, the DPRK, all the Asia Pacific Region — they welcomed upcoming high-level diplomacy,” the official said.

[Barzin]

Sorry, I do not understand what is there to talk about?  From the time that the Tibetan government in exile to now CTA, it has proven that no matter how much anger and frustration that they have, the Chinese is not interested to hear and yet they are at a loose war but creating the ban and losing their country.  Result is that not only they have lost the respect of the Chinese and yet they are not recognize by their own people because if they do, how can one faith be so easily destroyed when the ban is imposed?

To make things worse, just like what Ensapa said; they have been saying nasty things about the Chinese and that does not do any favour for CTA.  It does not interest the Chinese at all.  His Holiness has created a war among the Tibetans and the Chinese.  The Chinese probably recognize the "unwilling" to compromise with the Tibetans and will do anything to go against His Holiness.  Hence, they are okay with the ban and will do whatever they can to pick up the practice and go against Dalai Lama's wishes...

The ironic is even if the ban is lifted, it doesn't favour CTA simply because they themselves are going against the ban and hence they are not in page with the Chinese.  I don't see any reason to fight for and basically CTA is stucked, whether to moving forward or backward they are very stucked.  I guess the only solution is the ban to be lifted and hands down to Dorje Shugden practice, then maybe the Chinese would want to talk. 

[Ensapa]

Sorry, I do not understand what is there to talk about?  From the time that the Tibetan government in exile to now CTA, it has proven that no matter how much anger and frustration that they have, the Chinese is not interested to hear and yet they are at a loose war but creating the ban and losing their country.  Result is that not only they have lost the respect of the Chinese and yet they are not recognize by their own people because if they do, how can one faith be so easily destroyed when the ban is imposed?
The ban itself proves to China and the world that they are not that smart or religious after all, contrary to their claims. If they were wise, they would have questioned the ban instead of following it blindly.

To make things worse, just like what Ensapa said; they have been saying nasty things about the Chinese and that does not do any favour for CTA.  It does not interest the Chinese at all.  His Holiness has created a war among the Tibetans and the Chinese.  The Chinese probably recognize the "unwilling" to compromise with the Tibetans and will do anything to go against His Holiness.  Hence, they are okay with the ban and will do whatever they can to pick up the practice and go against Dalai Lama's wishes...
My question is, if they were really sincere in having peace talks with the Chinese, why is it that they continue to make ridiculous allegations against the Chinese? if you have an argument with a person and wish to make peace, do you actually spread nasty rumors and talk nasty things behind their backs? What kind of people actually thinks that this will work out? Or, they dont really want their independence, jus a reason to fight? All of these while Dalai Lama is working very hard to strengthen the identity of the Tibetans by visiting religious communities around the world. Why are they counter productive?

The ironic is even if the ban is lifted, it doesn't favour CTA simply because they themselves are going against the ban and hence they are not in page with the Chinese.  I don't see any reason to fight for and basically CTA is stucked, whether to moving forward or backward they are very stucked.  I guess the only solution is the ban to be lifted and hands down to Dorje Shugden practice, then maybe the Chinese would want to talk.
When the ban is lifted, they will lose the support of the world as well, unless they actually speak up now because people do not like to be lied to and tricked. It would be allright that there are solid reasons behind the ban, but the way the ban implemented was based on superstition and fear, and when the ban comes down, people are going to be unhappy and feel that they have been tricked and lied to. It's not the Dalai Lama's fault, but the fault of the scholars that the CTA hired to write negatively against Dorje Shugden and also how they treat his practitioners.

Does anyone find the statement that CTA gives that they are trying to make talks with the Chinese government and not making any progress a huge lie? Of course they are not because on one hand, they negotiate with China and on the other hand, they accuse China of some pretty funny things, and discriminate against the Chinese. What progress are they talking about?