Apparently it's ok not to obey the Dalai Lama.

[vajratruth]

Inconsistencies have become the trademark of the Dorje Shugden ban and not only have the reasons and basis of the ban been proven false over and over again, what is more is how those who are supposed to be upholding the ban are themselves proving that they themselves do not really subscribe to the "reasons".

Dorje Shugden is accused to be a demon or only an unenlightened deity and the Dalai Lama warned that relying on such worldly beings would harm one's spiritual path. That sounds reasonable enough until we realize that the basis by which the Shugden practice is prohibited does not apply to any other worldly deities. This does not make sense at all and the more the opponents of Dorje Shugden attempt to justify their actions the more they distort the Dharma and the consistency of their own stories. The truth is the truth. The truth that the Buddha discovered remains the same today and this is very much unlike the "truth" offered buy the pro-ban people. Their "truth" change from time to time and from one circumstance to another.

See for yourself:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/is-it-alright-not-to-obey-the-dalai-lama-now/

[Blueupali]

The Dalai Lama's arguments actually have several logical problems.  First, as Vajratruth mentions, the Dalai Lama says not to go for refuge to worldly dieties, and then relies on such dieties himself.  2. The Dalai Lama has decided that Dorje Shugden is a worldly diety when in fact he is recognized as a Buddha by many high Rinpoches. 3. The Dalai Lama's refuge arguement is faulty, at least according to the Kagyu tradition, which I think would hold for all Mahayana traditions, though I could be wrong.  So, in the Kagyu, when I first took refuge, which happened to be on the Tai Situ side, the lama mentioned that it was fine to keep one's old religion as long as it didn't involve animal sacrifice.  So I suppose if you were Christain or something, then according to Buddhism you could be both, because as long as you go for refuge to the Three Jewels, then you are a Buddhist.  If you happen to be believing that some other god is also good--- then that is fine, as long as you don't do things like make animal sacrifices.
  So the idea that a person is not a Buddhist just because they rely on other dieties doesn't seem consistant to me.  I think this is an important point, as it negates the use of the Dalai Lama's declaration that Dorje Shugden is a spirit.  If we are going for refuge to a spirit, then we are not Buddhists, etc.  How can we say about other religions that we can keep them too, and still be Buddhists, but we can't rely on a Buddha like Shugden if someone says he isn't a Buddha.  Then it would seem that relying on other dieties such as Shiva or something would mean the person could not be Buddhist?  But that is not the way that works.  A Buddhist is someone who goes for refuge to the Buddha Dharma and Sangha, and avoids harming others.
  The Dalai Lama's arguements that prayers hurt him seems odd, as well.  I don't think we can make that a valid arguement, because, how can a prayer hurt someone?  Furthermore, if he is recognized as a Buddha, then how does a Buddha get hurt by anything, let alone prayers?  So what is he trying to say?

[Rinchen]

It is just not logical for the Dalai Lama to impose the ban on Dorje Shugden. There are so many evidences that the oracle that Dalai Lama consulted during his escape from Tibet to India was the Dorje Shugden oracle. Why would Dalai Lama listen to Dorje Shugden on the instructions for the escape if the Dalai Lama constantly ask us to not worship Dorje Shugden as he is an evil spirit. Wouldn't this just make it fishy as to why would the Dalai Lama even listen to the instructions. Why would the 5th to 13th Dalai Lama be practicing Dorje Shugden practices? Is the Dalai Lama saying that it he was wrong?

If that is the case, should we listen to the Dalai Lama or the Dalai Lama? The reasons that are given are just all very fishy. If the reasons are true and would be correct, how would it be possible that practitioners be coming back even after being a Shugden practitioner?

[Blueupali]

It is just not logical for the Dalai Lama to impose the ban on Dorje Shugden. There are so many evidences that the oracle that Dalai Lama consulted during his escape from Tibet to India was the Dorje Shugden oracle. Why would Dalai Lama listen to Dorje Shugden on the instructions for the escape if the Dalai Lama constantly ask us to not worship Dorje Shugden as he is an evil spirit. Wouldn't this just make it fishy as to why would the Dalai Lama even listen to the instructions. Why would the 5th to 13th Dalai Lama be practicing Dorje Shugden practices? Is the Dalai Lama saying that it he was wrong?

If that is the case, should we listen to the Dalai Lama or the Dalai Lama? The reasons that are given are just all very fishy. If the reasons are true and would be correct, how would it be possible that practitioners be coming back even after being a Shugden practitioner?

I actually never have seen the point of listening to the Dalai Lama in any incarnation anyway; he has never been in charge of any schools I've studied in, which include Kagyu, Nyingma, and Kadamapa.  If I took him as a lama in some life, I suppose I could, but I do not accept that a priori all Buddhists in the world have to listen to any particular lama.

[brian]

I believe Guru Devotion is the core of Tibetan Buddhism practice. I feel this is all were caused by Dalai Lama's claim that Dorje Shugden is a spirit and not a Buddha protector, instructions have been carried out to ban the practice of Dorje Shugden and that is why, students of Dalai Lama, students of Lamas whose Guru is Dalai Lama heeded to the instruction to not do Dorje Shugden practice because of Guru Devotion. Having said that, having seen so many glaring evidences proofing Dorje Shugden is indeed a Buddha, i guess there are many doubters confused about the practice and many are waiting for the lifting of the ban

[vajrastorm]

The Dalai Lama bans the practice of Shugden on grounds that Shugden is a spirit or worldly god. To worship Shugden as a worldly god will be to break our refuge vows/commitments, one of which is that we cannot take refuge in a worldly god.

Assuming that Shugden were  a worldly god , and cannot be worhsipped, it holds too that all other worldly gods should not be worshipped too. How then ,  can it be explained , when the great monastery of Sera , invites a worldly god,Gyalchen Karma Trinley, to take trance during a Tsog ceremony? Not only that. Present were senior sangha and high lamas , like Lama Zopa and also former abbot, Kensur Rinpoche! They are seen to be having communion with him, drinking from the same cup as the oracle, signifying their oneness with the worldly god, as well as receiving blessings from him!

Such violation of the Dalai Lama's instructions not to worship  worldly gods and blatant breaking of the Refuge vows!

The  inconsistency of Lama Zopa's actions and behavior in regard to worshipping worldly deities is that  he dropped the practice of Shugden, the Protector who had recognized him as an incarnation of  a high Lama and on whom he had placed great reliance and taken refuge for years, on the back of HH Dalai Lama declaring that Shugden was not an Enlightened Protector, but a worldly god. Yet, he turns to the practice of yet another truly worldly god, like Gyalchen Karma Trinley!

The most outrageous inconsistency in both the Dalai Lama and Lama Zopa Rinpoche is that they both had worshipped Shugden as an Enlightened Protector for years and placed great reliance on him. HH Dalai Lama wrote the Prayer and Praise to Shugden - Melody of the Unceasing Vajra. How can the "Unceasing Vajra" become overnight a worldly god or spirit? In a most crucial period of his life, the Dalai Lama's escape from Tibet to safety and freedom in India, he had relied on Shugden, who did not fail him. Why then, on flimsy /no grounds, did HH Dalai Lama impose  a ban on Shugden after declaring him an unenlightened protector and spirit?Why did Lama Zopa , with all his clairvoyance as a highly attained being, not have seen that Shugden were a spirit, in the first place, and worshipped him  with much devotion; then, suddenly decide to abandon the King Protector on unsubstantiated grounds of his being a spirit or a worldly god?

With such inconsistencies, how can one follow the dictates of the Dalai Lama blindly and stop practicing Shugden, especially if Shugden has proven to me personally that he is without doubt, a most compassionate Wisdom Protector? How can anyone forget that Shugden arose as a  Protector to  protect Je Tsongkhapa's teachings, particularly his expounding of Nargajuna's Middle/ Correct View of emptiness, such teachings which are crucial for this degenerate age?
 
             

[christine V]

In Vajrayana, Tsok Offering is a very important ceremony. Practice of Tsok is a primarily practice of offering.  However, it is not just a practice of offering, it is also a powerful method for purifying our samaya. Sometimes it is said that the best method for purifying samaya is the fire offering, and tsok practice is the ‘inner fire offering, (source: http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Tsok)

The Tsok offering ceremony of Sera Je Monastic let’s say is a ceremony of purifies samaya and during this event the Worldly God - Gyalchen Karma Trinley took trance to “bless” the ceremony.  But I thought H.H Dalai Lama has cautioned practitioners of Buddhism, monks and laity alike, not to engage in the worship of worldly gods and deities or indeed establish any spiritual connections with such beings.
But in this video, Sera Je monastery they allowed the worldly God to take trance and even “blessed” the monks , what is that mean by this action. Is that mean that the H.H Dalai Lama allowing the practice of worldly God or is that mean that Sera JE Monastery is ignoring H.H Dalai Lama advise.
In the video, H.H Dalai Lama’s picture is on the throne.
So now can we say that  either the monks might have broken samaya whereby they ignoring the Guru’s advise? If this is so, those high Lama sitting on the throne why are they allowing this to be happened? OR H.H Dalai Lama is allowing the practice of worldly God, which meant His Holiness is contradicting on what he have been instructed before.

In the video, not only the monks laugh when the Oracle run away…
At one point, Lama Zopa seems to fall asleep!  In this serious ceremony, can we fall asleep during puja?

A Dharma King Protector is banned while a worldly God is allowed to take trance during Tsok offering. What is happening to our Buddhist world?

[ratanasutra]

As we know that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has banned Dorje shugden practice, practitioners of Buddhism, monks are not allowed to engage in the worship of worldly gods and deities including Dorje Shugden. Because Buddhists are only to go for refuge to the Three Jewels (the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha) as Dorje Shugden is a worldly god, not enlightened beings.

Then in the tsok offering ceremony at Sera Je Monastic University, part of the famous Sera Monastery, there was a trance and worship of Gyalchen Karma Trinley, a worldly god. We can see as the video shows, Lama Zopa and the other senior lamas received blessings from the worldly god, and sealed their communion with the deity by drinking from the same cup offered by the deity.

How to explain about this? If Dorje Shugden and Gyalchen Karma Trinley are worldly gods and we could not practice Dorje Shugden, then we should not practice or worship other worldly gods and deities too. But why monks at Sera Je monastery allowed to worship Gyalchen Karma Trinley. Are there other reasons or just ban the practice of Dorje Shugden only. As the greatest of the Gelug and Sakya lamas of Tibet considered Dorje Shugden to be a fully enlightened being. So it is unlogic for the ban.

[dsiluvu]

Oh my Buddha... This has become more and more confusing! Hellllllllllllllllppppppppppp!!! What is really going on now? Have we Buddhist and Buddhism basically degenerated that much?!

Why would Lama Zopa accept tea from a worldly god? Sharing the same saliva as a worldly god? Yikes. Certainly then it must, it should and it can be okay to practice Dorje Shugden no? If anyone who knows Dharma well enough and the Vajrayana tradition, I am sure they will not think this is cool at all. How can His Holiness allow this but "Ban" Dorje Shugden. Ok even if, let's just say Dorje Shugden is a "spirit" and "worldly" being... then surely it is okay for us to practice and have Dorje Shugden oracle take trance cos this unenlightened worldly god is allowed in to take trance in the Gompa in front of hundreds of sangha and Lama Zopa.

So much inconsistency and deception, it make the ban more nonsensical and obviously it is driven by politics and power games. If I am to think positive, the only positive thing about it is His Holiness is spreading Dorje Shugden to the world especially China. That is the only sane reason behind this ridiculous ban! 

[dondrup]

One of the reasons given by HH 14th Dalai Lama to ban the practice of Dorje Shugden is because Dorje Shugden is said to be a worldly spirit.  It is totally against the principles of Buddhist refuge to propitiate a worldly spirit.  In reality, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha not a worldly spirit as claimed by HH 14th Dalai Lama.

If HH 14th Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan Administration ban the propitiation of world spirits, then why is Sera Monastery allowed to propitiate Gyalchen Karma Trinley, a worldly god as seen in the attached video?   The biggest irony is that HH 14th Dalai Lama and CTA continue to rely on Pehar, a worldly spirit through the state oracle of Nechung for advice! 

Based on the observation above, there is a clear biasness and inconsistencies in the policy taken by HH 14th Dalai Lama and CTA on the propitiation of worldly spirits!  It is beyond any doubt that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha not a worldly spirit and hence there shouldn’t have been any ban at all on Dorje Shugden.  HH 14th Dalai Lama and CTA must lift the ban immediately.

[fruven]

If one choose to follow Dalai Lama's advice not to rely on worldly deity then therefore one should forgo all reliance on all worldly deities, not just this worldly or that worldly deity. Otherwise one is not following the advice given. Therefore it is incorrect to find fault with those who rely on Dorje Shugden. Everyone in the video would have been at fault because they themselves rely on worldly deity as well.

What is even worst is that because this or that worldly deity is not ban lay people and Sangha continue to rely on them thinking it is permissible and doesn't break any rules and vows. Why would want to rely on worldly deity when there is enlightened being here with us? Instead the worldly deity should rely on enlightened being because they are also in samsara.

[Big Uncle]

Well, naturally, I think that the Dalai Lama himself...with the deepest respect... is the most hypocritical when it comes to his justification of the ban. Why do I say this? He himself is propitiating a worldly being like Nechung. If Dorje Shugden is a worldly being, why allow Nechung to be propitiated at all. Shouldn't we all stop all propitiation and stop invoking his advice and presence through the oracle. Continuing this tradition is hypocrisy with the Dorje Shugden ban in mind.

Moving on, the Dalai Lama said that he will stop talking about Dorje Shugden but there he goes again talking about Dorje Shugden in a recent visit to Gaden. These are just a few simple examples of how hypocritical the Dalai Lama is and given the hypocrisy, I am not surprised that many western followers of the Dorje Shugden remain quite perturbed by this hypocrisy. This is sad considering who the Dalai Lama is and what he had contributed to worldwide acceptance of Buddhism. I feel really sad and the only comforting though it the fact that there's a higher reason for this and that the Dalai Lama is using unconventional means to bring Dorje Shugden to worldwide attention and eventual practice. It makes sense and I pray that his plans do come to quick fruition.

[Blueupali]

Well, naturally, I think that the Dalai Lama himself...with the deepest respect... is the most hypocritical when it comes to his justification of the ban. Why do I say this? He himself is propitiating a worldly being like Nechung. If Dorje Shugden is a worldly being, why allow Nechung to be propitiated at all. Shouldn't we all stop all propitiation and stop invoking his advice and presence through the oracle. Continuing this tradition is hypocrisy with the Dorje Shugden ban in mind.

Moving on, the Dalai Lama said that he will stop talking about Dorje Shugden but there he goes again talking about Dorje Shugden in a recent visit to Gaden. These are just a few simple examples of how hypocritical the Dalai Lama is and given the hypocrisy, I am not surprised that many western followers of the Dorje Shugden remain quite perturbed by this hypocrisy. This is sad considering who the Dalai Lama is and what he had contributed to worldwide acceptance of Buddhism. I feel really sad and the only comforting though it the fact that there's a higher reason for this and that the Dalai Lama is using unconventional means to bring Dorje Shugden to worldwide attention and eventual practice. It makes sense and I pray that his plans do come to quick fruition.

Dear Big Uncle,
  I am a bit confused on the definition of worldly being.  Does that just mean 'non-Buddha' or does it mean if not Buddha then not a bodhisattva either?
  I guess of course, that the problem can always be that one person can call their diety a Buddha or another's a spirit. 
  In the Dalai Lama's case, he refers to both Nechung and Dorje Shugden as wood spirits, but thinks we can rely on what Nechung says.  As for me, I have no idea what Nechung even is, except that it is an oracle the government of Tibet currently relies on.  For me, I see Dorje Shugden as an emanation of Buddha Manjushri.  Okay, and as I am not a Buddha, I can't say with certainty who is a Buddha or not, but of course I have to rely on investigation, faith and help from all the Buddhas. 
  So I say I disagree with what the Dalai Lama says with his mouth.  That does not mean that he is not a Buddha, giving a reverse teaching.  If we follow his arguments closely, to me, it means that we should investigate for ourselves because sometimes world leaders who are also lamas have to try to keep a large bunch of people from China from noticing what is going on (so they don't kill anyone, get bad karma, etc).
  As for what a worldly being is, apparently its okay with many to do anything as long as the Dalai Lama says so, including worshipping non-Buddha/non-bodhisattvas.  I guess just because everyone tells me that someone is a Buddha doesn't mean that I have to think so, but even if I do think so, I can notice that sometimes Buddhas and bodhisattvas have to lie to help all living beings.  So in the case that a Buddha does that a lot, I tend to think it's better to find another emantion of Buddha to listen to, otherwise it is hard to keep strait what is going on.  That is me, and I am not Tibetan; everyone would see it differently, until we all reach Buddhahood anyway.

[kris]

I thank Mar Nee for writing such a great article again! I have been reading a few articles written by Mar Nee and from what I read, he/she seems to put in the effort to do research about the topic and that is what we need: facts.

As many have said, the logic for the ban is really not convincing. Most of the time, it does not make sense, and yet the many people don't know about the truth/logic. Many people just take what HH Dalai Lama said and just follow blindly..

Actually, when I first heard that HH Dalai Lama's main protector is Nechung (who is not enlightened), I am quite surprised, because scriptures told us to take refuge in enlightened beings... that was like a BIG question mark for many years..

[Rinchen]

It is just not logical for the Dalai Lama to impose the ban on Dorje Shugden. There are so many evidences that the oracle that Dalai Lama consulted during his escape from Tibet to India was the Dorje Shugden oracle. Why would Dalai Lama listen to Dorje Shugden on the instructions for the escape if the Dalai Lama constantly ask us to not worship Dorje Shugden as he is an evil spirit. Wouldn't this just make it fishy as to why would the Dalai Lama even listen to the instructions. Why would the 5th to 13th Dalai Lama be practicing Dorje Shugden practices? Is the Dalai Lama saying that it he was wrong?

If that is the case, should we listen to the Dalai Lama or the Dalai Lama? The reasons that are given are just all very fishy. If the reasons are true and would be correct, how would it be possible that practitioners be coming back even after being a Shugden practitioner?

I actually never have seen the point of listening to the Dalai Lama in any incarnation anyway; he has never been in charge of any schools I've studied in, which include Kagyu, Nyingma, and Kadamapa.  If I took him as a lama in some life, I suppose I could, but I do not accept that a priori all Buddhists in the world have to listen to any particular lama.

It does not matter if you see the point of listening to the Dalai Lama or not, the point is that people do listen to him especially for the Tibetans. This is for a simple reason, in the world's perception, he is the representative for Tibetan Buddhism, and Buddhism as a whole. In the Tibetans' eye, the Dalai Lama is their king. Thus, whatever that the Dalai Lama is making a bigger impact in people's hearts then we can imagine.