Author Topic: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA  (Read 9382 times)

LosangKhyentse

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SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« on: June 21, 2010, 12:01:14 AM »


On the home page of this website, scroll down towards the bottom and watch a new video called "Spirits in Dharamsala."

It is very interesting:  http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/

TK



WisdomBeing

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2010, 03:32:47 AM »
Excellent video... i've posted it on my facebook too... everyone should watch it! Thanks for the tip, TK!

I was particularly amazed by the part about Nechung's shrine being in the lingkor for devotees to circumambulate. The documentary is exactly right - if Nechung is unenlightened, why is his shrine being given pride of place?

i read online (http://www.nechung.org/monastery.shtml) that Nechung was appointed Tibet's state protector by the Fifth Dalai Lama.. so why did the fifth Dalai Lama appoint an unenlightened protector... there are several other enlightened protectors such as Dorje Shugden, Mahakala, Palden Lhamo or Setrap?

Just to share a bit of trivia, when I googled 'enlightened protector', the first result that came out was Dorje Shugden!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

LosangKhyentse

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 07:28:55 AM »


Just to share a bit of trivia, when I googled 'enlightened protector', the first result that came out was Dorje Shugden!


I find that prophetic and ironic.

Dharamsala does everything to suppress and Dorje Shugden gets bigger and when googled is listed as enlightened. More and more in the future he will be known completely by all as enlightened for which he is.

TK

iloveds

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2010, 12:55:59 PM »
TGIE what you got to say now? You can't hide the facts regarding Nechung, you can't go against the buddha's words regarding spirits, you can't hide the karma of encouraging spirit worship.

Surely they know, they must know, what buddhist texts have they been reading not to know?

Great job TK... this video shows it plain as day, year in year out, what goes on and is still going on. Or will they just erase the part about Nechung being a spirit as they so easily did Trijang Rinpoche's name mantra.

May the world know the contradictions

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=3938

honeydakini

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 05:38:06 PM »
Everyone,
after watching the video, do scroll down and read all the articles - very interesting and I thank the website people for taking the time to find all these very informative related articles + posting them up.

Right at the bottom of the articles are some very thought-provoking questions (which I think were written by the website admin people?). It provides much food for thought and is very useful for us to consider these points:

It is clear here, that Pehar Gyalpo (Dorje Drakden’s or Nechung’s ‘boss’) is able to harm. He is the one that mentions again and again to Dalai lama that Shugden’s practice should be stopped via his oracle in Dharamsala.

This opens up a can of worms that implicates so much. Can we trust this oracle taking possession of Nechung or is it someone else taking trance?
Nechung is a worldly spirit of the Gyalpo class, most likey from Persia, who tried to block the coming of Buddhism into Tibet, and finally Guru Rinpoche has to wrathfully oath-bound him.

This video clearly demonstrates the contradictions Tibetan Govt overtly exhibits.

They worship Nechung the spirit yet Dorje Shugden’s practice is suppresseed as they claim he is a spirit.

They ask you not to seek advice of spirits as it damages one’s refuge vows, yet they are seeking advice.

They ask you not to pray to spirits, yet they set up Nechung’s chapel right along the lingkor where hundreds of people religiously circumambulate daily.

There’s one policy for them and another for Shugden practitioners.

They put up letters to ban Shugden practitioners yet they promote Nechung the spirit to the lay people.

Why is it they may worship spirits, but we may not worship Dorje Shugden which they have wrongly labeled a spirit?

How can Nechung who has limited clairvoyance advise Dalai Lama to ban Shugden?

How can Nechung with his limited powers as a spirit have the abilities to see the level of Shugden? Why does the Dalai Lama need Nechung’s advice at all?

Trijang Rinpoche clearly states Shugden is Manjushri. Yet Nechung says Shugden is not. Who do we listen to? The Root Guru of all Gurus, Trijang Rinpoche or a spirit called Nechung?

The Tibetan Govt in Dharamsala gives many contradictions that do not make sense to those who are learned, can debate and refute. Hence all requests to discuss the Shugden issue with the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Govt have been refused.

Please contemplate on these contradictions.

This film presented is not meant to disparage the Dalai Lama nor Nechung. It is to bring a point across that the policies from Tibetan Govt must be fair and Dalai Lama should never ban, restrict, or speak against Dorje Shugden’s practice. Dalai Lama has the right to worship Nechung, so the followers of Trijang Rinpoche have the right to worship Shugden.

Shugden’s practice was estimated clearly to be around 4 million strong before 1959. Shugden was not a minor practice but a leading force within the Buddhism of Tibet.

Zach

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 09:43:40 PM »
WOW JUST WOW...could we please see if we could get some vocals in for the written parts ?  :)

iloveds

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2010, 12:15:42 AM »
Poor Nechung! Always being misconstrued and abused,
Might as well ask a garbage can what's inside it, as to believe anything the Oracles states.
Abuse of Power is Unimaginable
They are desperate and will cause more phsical harm to others to protect their jobs
Reminds me of the ennuchs standing in line with their testicles in a jar
Right Before the "Last Emperor" threw them out into the streets of Beijing!
These Living fossils will be examined for their impurities and lies.


what raw statements, after HH leaves (sorry to say) the living fossils will be examined, openly and loudly for what they have done. Then it will be back to the proverbial for them, they know who they are and what they are doing.

Abuse of power is truly unimaginable, in the end desperate and dangerous. Keep a look out

\\\_///
(Ox_O)
   

LosangKhyentse

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2010, 09:55:53 AM »

Dear Webmaster/Admin,

What a spectacular job you did for this video. I fold my hands to your dedication, hardwork, steadfast devotion to Dorje Shugden as clearly seen by this definitive website. The most well known and authoratitive Dorje Shugden website on this planet.

Also you have a wonderful forum and guestbook sign in which encourages democratic expression of thoughts, something the Tibetan Govt In Exile never allowed their own people. They are very much like the current Myanmar govt.

Now you have come out with this incredible compilation 'Spirits In Dharamsala' (so aptly titled) video with clear explanations even for new people who come to this website would take notice and learn something from viewing.

Thank you so much for your work, dedication, and devotion THAT CLEARLY MANIFESTS IN ALL THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THIS WEBSITE.

With folded hands, deep respects and gratitude,

TK

P.S. If you need any financial assistance towards this website, please kindly let me know. I can't do anything towards this, but I can help you if you allow me the great honour.

cleojean

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2010, 08:41:18 PM »
The way I see it - nothing should be practised soley or in isolation, as in cut off from the rest. We can't understand the whole spectrum of life if we only choose to always look at one side. There is so much more to life, people, and the truth than just one "blind side". Unfortunately, in our world of samsara, there is always just one side that chooses to blind us all. And that is sad indeed. Truth is all inclusive and all encompassing, simply because it is not false. 

Helena

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2010, 07:52:05 PM »
Interesting statement, Cleojean...I suppose, Protector Practice is really a support practice and not the sum of the practice, no? The most important practice of all is still the Dharma. Without the Dharma, then where should we get our Enlightenment from? If not from the Dharma, how can we learn?
The way I see it - nothing should be practised soley or in isolation, as in cut off from the rest. We can't understand the whole spectrum of life if we only choose to always look at one side. There is so much more to life, people, and the truth than just one "blind side". Unfortunately, in our world of samsara, there is always just one side that chooses to blind us all. And that is sad indeed. Truth is all inclusive and all encompassing, simply because it is not false. 
Helena

Midakpa

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2010, 01:00:56 AM »
Is it possible that Nechung has become enlightened? It has been hundreds of years since he was subdued by Padmasambava. I suppose he has been practising during this time. So why can't a spirit become enlightened? So if he is enlightened, he can be put on a shrine and worshipped. If this is the case, the Dalai Lama is not being contradictory.

The interesting thing is, if Nechung is enlightened, his job is done! He can retire now. Who will take over as the principal Dharma Protector? Dorje Shugden! That door in the Nechung temple might open soon.

Of course I'm just guessing and day dreaming...

Helena

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2010, 04:35:11 AM »
As each phase or era comes to an end, so will the so-called cherished traditions of that era, because people are so attched to certain things, and that way of doing things. It may just be that both Nechung and HH DL have been planning to retire altogether because their time and work has come to an end. HH DL has already done his best to bring Buddhism out of the cloisters of the snow mountains, and into the wide open. Since Tibet is no longer Tibet in that sense, there is essentially nothing more for Nechung to protect. And as we all have read, it was also said that it was Nechung who urged Tulku Drakpa to become the Protector of the new era. It seems to me all the seeds have been planted many lifetimes ago, and they had always known and planned for it. For this reason and more, I am inclined to view all of them as Enlightened. Normal human beings like you and me cannot control anything at all, not even our own bad mood. At the end of the day, the greatest jewel of Tibet goes beyond its land of snows, its people, its land or mountains - it is the Dharma and the Lineage that upholds the Dharma. As long as the Dharma and Lineage continues, Tibet is eternal and everywhere. Is that not the biggest picture of all?
Is it possible that Nechung has become enlightened? It has been hundreds of years since he was subdued by Padmasambava. I suppose he has been practising during this time. So why can't a spirit become enlightened? So if he is enlightened, he can be put on a shrine and worshipped. If this is the case, the Dalai Lama is not being contradictory.

The interesting thing is, if Nechung is enlightened, his job is done! He can retire now. Who will take over as the principal Dharma Protector? Dorje Shugden! That door in the Nechung temple might open soon.

Of course I'm just guessing and day dreaming...
Helena

sutarmol

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2010, 05:03:53 PM »
This video is very interesting , HH Dalai Lama tells people not to pray to spirit but he himself consult nechung who is spirit , i m sure HH Dalai Lama know that is contradic and he will get criticised. Dont you think so !!!!!!!

Helena

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2010, 05:24:08 AM »
Has it occured to anyone that THIS IS ALL DELIBERATE? I mean, anyone would know - even us non-Elightened ones - that when we say one thing and do another, we would get criticized, but we all still do it anyways on a daily basis. Everything is done for a purpose, a much higher purpose - everything has a teaching in it, if we can see it and learn from it. The way I see it - have firm faith and go all the way. Do not do one thing and say another. If we want DS to grow and spread - go all the way. Trust in DS, trust in the Dharma that we learn from our own Gurus, trust that we ourselves will do what is RIGHT by the Dharma taught by our Gurus and not be caught up in our own emotions or be blinded by others' BS.
Helena

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: SPIRITS IN DHARAMSALA
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2015, 07:03:41 AM »
When Guru Rinpoche first arrived in Tibet, the Tibetans were practising a religion of spirits worship called Bon.  In order to subdue the spirits and to propagate Dharma, Guru Rinpoche made many of these spirits as defenders of the Dharma and they were not enlightened beings.  Nechung is one of these oath bound Dharma defenders. 

Being oath bound, it is without doubt that these spirits will do what they have promised.  Watching these 2 videos is not to criticise Nechung but rather to logically think why are spirits worship being encouraged by the Dalai Lama.

And the other question is why is Nechung chosen to be the state oracle when there are so many enlightened protectors that can be chosen.

Is the controversy that Dorje Shugden, an enlightened Protector as taught by great Masters like HH Trijang Rinpoche is being named a spirit a conspiracy?  What is the purpose?

Very interesting insight to the unfounded degradation to Dorje Shugden and worshippers. 

Go to the bottom of website of DS.com, look for page 6 of videos and you will be able watch this video "Spirits in Dharamsala.