Or watch on server | download video (right click & save file)
Out of curiosity I did a search on CTA’s website www.tibet.net for “shugden”, and a list came out, but when I tried to click on the links with Shugden as the main topic, for example “His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)”, it only says “page not found”, same for a few other links with Shugden as the main topic (see pic attached).
Other articles which had been removed from CTA website include:
- “The Central Tibetan Administration’s position on the Shugden/Dholgyal followers from Tibet”
- “Statement by the CTA on Shugden/Dholgyal followers from Tibet”
- “Limitations on Shugden Should Sustain: His Holiness”
If the topic came out in search, but when you click on it it says “page not found”, it should mean that the article was originally there but was removed right?
Can someone else please verify this also? If this is true, good for you Kalon Tripa Dr. Lobsang Sangay! You have done the right thing for your government and people!
This means that CTA is now has been quietly separating state and church (religion). State is secular, government, people; church is religious issues, what you can and cannot practice…
There are still Shugden mentioned here and there in some articles, but those with Shugden as the main topic, had been removed. Those articles with Shugden mentioned are articles in which the majority of the content is not Shugden related, but Shugden is just being mentioned as a one-liner for example by Dalai Lama, Samdhong Rinpoche etc.
On those articles with Shugden as the main topic, it is also purely secular, like “Delhi High Court Dismisses Dorjee Shugden Devotees’ Charges”.
The trend is clear now, those news with Shugden QUOTED by other personnel like Dalai Lama is still there, those are QUOTED and it does not represent CTA’s stand on Shugden issue; those news which mentioned Shugden devotees pressing charges against Dalai Lama, those news about other people making allegations against Dalai Lama regarding Suhgden is still there; BUT, those articles that represent the STAND of CTA regarding Shugden, IS GONE.
Also, few years ago until sometime last year, there used to be an anti-shugden website with every materials against Shugden called www.antishugden.com, and the registrar record clearly showed that the website was made by Gangchen Kyishong (CTA) (see pic attached), the CTA blatantly didn’t bother to hide their identity in creating the anti-shugden website back then, but the website has since been shutdown and Gangchen Kyishong has abandoned the website altogether (see pic), this is another clear sign that the CTA has been changing their stand against Shugden!
(Click to view larger image)
Also, the CTA some years ago had made an anti-shugden documentary video called “Dorjee Shugden, The Spirit and the Controversy” with clips accusing and embarrassing Shugden high lamas like Gangchen Rinpoche, and the latest check shows that it has also been removed from CTA’s official TV Station online (http://www.tibetonline.tv), it used to be there for the longest time. But now there are only three Shugden related videos on the TV station, two are Dalai Lama’s speech about Shugden, and another one made by Swiss TV. Again we can see that THE CTA HAS ABANDONED ALL MATERIALS ABOUT THEIR STAND AGAINST SHUGDEN. You still can see the original video “Dorjee Shugden, The Spirit and the Controversy” above.
IN OTHER WORDS, THE CTA HAS ABANDONED THEIR PREVIOUS STAND AGAINST SHUGDEN, WHICH IS TO PERSECUTE, TO BAN, TO OSTRACIZE, TO SIDELINE, TO OUTCAST SHUGDEN PRACTITIONERS!!!
Can we say that the ban against Shugden is half-lifted now?!?!
p/s. “His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)” still exists on Dalai Lama’s website (http://dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/his-holiness-advice) but it means now it is only a spiritual issue, and a Dalai Lama’s “personal issue”, a good development for Shugden practitioners!
Namdrol
Comment by dsdisciple
The tibetan government in exile real motivation for toning down DS talk and overt things on their website?
My thinking is that their focus will be more and more towards actually secular affairs as already stated by HHDL.
Tibetans running their affairs on their own without HHDL in the equation and in the long run one would also assume without the substantial financial contributions from HHDL worldwide teaching tours and associated brand Dalai Lama.
Presently, funding is made up of worldwide relief organizations, western governments, private charitable trusts, private individuals, independence tax (green book) and recently (blue book) donations solicited by any pro HHDL individuals in the west.
A large proportion is contributed from HHDL teachings abroad (not sure of the exact percentage but think its around 30%). So what happens to CTA if they cannot count on HHDL funding when he is not around in the future?
Will large donors be as forthcoming with financial support and aide when no Dalai Lama?
How will the CTA handle PR situations when Dalai Lama not around? Presently no media or reporters do not report negatively about Dalai Lama because he is big News around the world, and the world cannot get enough of him (sells papers, tv ratings, national, international news) not hard to see why.
The real question is not what is the motivation behind the CTA/TGIE but is their actually a clear separation of Spiritual and Secular affairs.
Who is taking leadership of this from the CTA/TGIE side?
Newly Elected Prime Minister Dr Lobsang Sangye could issue a statement with these subtle changes on their website that the MAIN FOCUS OF THE CTA IS TO FOCUS ON SECULAR AFFAIRS TO BRING BENEFIT TO ALL TIBETANS IRREGARDLESS OF THE DS AFFAIR AND BRING PEACE OF MIND TO ALL TIBETANS.
If anyone can add to the trail of the Phantom Understated Finances within the CTA? (not very transparent in my humble oppinion).
Please excuse me a bit off topic but will post more on the 4question thread soon
I think we need to collectively keep up the pressure and focus the spotlight onto the CTA representatives and what they are doing in relation to what they stand for, which we all know they have not done in equal measure for DS practitioners worldwide and in India.
CTA your words of honour should match what you stand for! Actions and words should be one and the same. You want to be respected by the International Community (as a progressive Buddhist Country) FOCUS ONLY ON SECULAR MATTERS would be a good start.
When the Dalai Lama is not around I don’t think the world will be as forgiving for indiscretions against its own people examples of change around the world? examples Egypt / Middle East / Syria etc…I am not comparing CTA to these places? some might say Yes? But you can see how the media treats these issues because BAD NEWS also is BIG NEWS…just food for thought.
Taken from the forum: /forum/index.php?topic=1739.60
English
Indonesia
Tibetan
shugdenprotect
February 18, 2012
Woohoo! Thank you Namdrol, for the good news.
The effort made by posting and commenting about this subject matter is bearing tangible fruits! This reminds me of my Guru’s teaching on being proactive and consistent in our efforts that will cause an eventual desired result. If we are sincere, we will consistently work for our Lord Dorje Shugden and the ban’s lift will manifest!
So, besides thanking Namdrol for this update, I would like to thank everyone for playing a role and contributing to this exciting news. May this result reinforce our faith in our Protector, the dorjeshugden website and this forum. May our stronger faith, in turn, enhance the intensity of our hard work and focus to ensure that this campaign to lift the ban comes to a completion as soon as possible.
Until the ban is lifted and the sangha members who suffered greatly in upholding this sacred worship can practice openly in glory and with dignity, shall we not go to rest and keep our fingers tapping away on our key pads.
May the need for CTA to survive within the secular political system continue to drive them to make more “right” decisions to distance themselves from HH’s stand on DS.
jeremyg
February 18, 2012
This is great news. It is a stepping stone in the removal of the ban. Thank you to the work of many teams, such as the one of this website, with sending letter to these organizations. Thank you to all the people on the forum who work tirelessly in contributing to the forum, to those who raise awareness about the Ban, and to those spreading Dorje Shugden through many means.
We must continue with what we are doing, it is not the time to ease up, because of one victory, but it should be a call to work even harder, as their is evidence that what we are doing is working. Lets keep contributing and raising awareness of the issue. Sooner or later the ban will become less and less publicized. It is because of all the hard work being done out there.
Thank you so much, may we dedicate the merit we attain through this type of work, whether it be contributing on this forum, or any other forms of DS work we do, to relieve the suffering of all DS practitioners, and to the benefit of future DS practitioners.
biggyboy
February 18, 2012
Yeah! It is indeed a great news! Thank you to Namdrol for keeping check on the latest progress of CTA.
Let this be the onset causes for the ban to be lifted much faster. How wise and brave for Kalon Tripa to have the articles removed…a commendable act. In fact, with all the collective writings and commenting on this website has indeed bore results. Congratulations to all who have contributed especially so to the admin of this website. This could be their first step to get on the good side and support of their fellow countrymen.
Quote,
http://tibet.net/2012/02/15/kalon-tripa-launches-tibet-policy-institute….”Kalon Tripa said the institute aims to carry out comprehensive research works on all aspect of Tibet-related issues, which he underlined would help the administration in framing policies for the next fifty years and making the Tibet issue a competent case on the international platform.”
Would the plight of the ostracized DS practitioners be looked into and allowed the freedom? Hmmm..
Anyway, lets all not rest on our laurels and continue to bang on our keyboards to have the ban be lifted soon.
VS
February 18, 2012
Wow…. thank you thank you thank you thank you Namdrol for this wonderful news. ‘The Cage’ has definitely been rattled!!!
Yes, it might be too soon for the bottle of champagne, but this is definitely a step forward for all DS warriors around the world.
Thank you to members and friends of ds.com for your continuous effort in promoting ds. Thank you Dr Lobsang Sangye for initiating this move and walking out of HHDL’s shadow. May this move create the causes for the lifting of the ban soon.
Losang_Tenpa
February 18, 2012
The Dalai Lama has not changed anything on his website, which I am sure gets many more viewers than the CTA website
http://www.dalailama.com/messages#shugden
thaimonk
February 18, 2012
So what would you like to do about it?
lotus1
February 18, 2012
Yes, when I tried to check the link, it is showing “Page not found” too. Searched through the Chinese website and do not find the relevant articles too.
If it is due to CTA is reconsidering their ban on DS under the leadership of Lobsang Sangyye, it is really a great news to rejoice.
May the ban be lifted and DS practitioners can freely practice and more people can be benefited from the supreme protector.
happysun
February 18, 2012
This is a very very great news for many who really hoping the BAN can remove fast!!! Sorry I want to say I not really know what was CTA had done in previous years to dorje shudgen practitioner. But I believed that is will be many ugly things had done by them to “torture” the dorje shugden practitioner. Now, under this new Tibetan government, they started to change their trend…..I think, if not they won’t bother to remove those links.
I not sure what is the real motivation from Tibetan government side….suddenly changed the trend. but I believe the new Tibetan government start think about the BAN issue seriously nowadays. They seem like try to separate spiritual and politic which had conceptualized over 10 years ago by Dalai Lama.
The BAN issue no right or wrong….however because the ban then someone be hurt then I think this should be considering….why? Because at least 90% of Tibatan ds practitioner practice ds only stand in pure motivation, they didn’t deserve this kind of”punishment”. I think for this reason, as a new Tibetan government should be consider…the BANNN issue.
dsdisciple
February 18, 2012
Hi HappySun,
The tibetan government in exile real motivation for toning down DS talk and overt things on their website?
My thinking is that their focus will be more and more towards actually secular affairs as already stated by HHDL.
Tibetans running their affairs on their own without HHDL in the equation and in the long run one would also assume without the substantial financial contributions from HHDL worldwide teaching tours and associated brand Dalai Lama.
Presently, funding is made up of worldwide relief organizations, western governments, private charitable trusts, private individuals, independence tax (green book) and recently (blue book) donations solicited by any pro HHDL individuals in the west.
A large proportion is contributed from HHDL teachings abroad (not sure of the exact percentage but think its around 30%). So what happens to CTA if they cannot count on HHDL funding when he is not around in the future?
Will large donors be as forthcoming with financial support and aide when no Dalai Lama?
How will the CTA handle PR situations when Dalai Lama not around? Presently no media or reporters do not report negatively about Dalai Lama because he is big News around the world, and the world cannot get enough of him (sells papers, tv ratings, national, international news) not hard to see why.
The real question is not what is the motivation behind the CTA/TGIE but is their actually a clear separation of Spiritual and Secular affairs.
Who is taking leadership of this from the CTA/TGIE side?
Newly Elected Prime Minister Dr Lobsang Sangye could issue a statement with these subtle changes on their website that the MAIN FOCUS OF THE CTA IS TO FOCUS ON SECULAR AFFAIRS TO BRING BENEFIT TO ALL TIBETANS IRREGARDLESS OF THE DS AFFAIR AND BRING PEACE OF MIND TO ALL TIBETANS.
Hope this helps HS? if anyone can add to the trail of the Phantom Understated Finances within the CTA? (not very transparent in my humble oppinion).
Please excuse me a bit off topic but will post more on the 4question thread soon
I think we need to collectively keep up the pressure and focus the spotlight onto the CTA representatives and what they are doing in relation to what they stand for, which we all know they have not done in equal measure for DS practitioners worldwide and in India.
CTA your words of honour should match what you stand for! Actions and words should be one and the same. You want to be respected by the International Community (as a progressive Buddhist Country) FOCUS ONLY ON SECULAR MATTERS would be a good start.
When the Dalai Lama is not around I don’t think the world will be as forgiving for indiscretions against its own people examples of change around the world? examples Egypt / Middle East / Syria etc…I am not comparing CTA to these places? some might say Yes? But you can see how the media treats these issues because BAD NEWS also is BIG NEWS…just food for thought.
xo
beggar
February 18, 2012
Namdrol! This is incredible news – totally brightened my day. THANK YOU! I rejoice in your efforts to have found this out.
I rejoice also in all the work that this website and its people have done to put pressure (nicely!) on the government over these few years. We may think, in the short term, that a few letters couldn’t change anything, that maybe they might just be thrown away or whatever. A few people have said this to me and scoffed at the idea. I disagree. whether or not the CTA and their people actually read letters is not the point (perhaps some of them don’t even speak english well!). But surely, just receiving the letters alerts them to the fact that there are people who are watching the situation and who are QUESTIONING in very logical, clear ways. The letters become an embarrassment to them. It shows them that the ban isn’t just affecting the few hundred thousand Tibetans in exile in India but THE WORLD IS WATCHING.
IF they want to compete on a global scale as an internationally recognised people, they they had better get their act together and act in accordance with the global standards of human rights and governance of the people.
Karmically, also, the very effort of preparing these letters – from writing to sending to discussing them online – definitely contributes to something beyond what we can see. Karmically, we are creating the causes for the truth of Dorje Shugden’s practice to grow in the world, unfettered. By doing all we can to draw attention to the silliness of the ban and its illogic, we create the cause for the ban to be diluted. It is logical after all – the more knowledge, education and awareness there is in the world about the truth of Dorje Shugden’s nature, the more difficult it becomes to quash the practice by that silly illogic upheld by anti-shugdenpas.
Karmically, all these acts add up to become a huge lake of water. Whatever puny efforts by the CTA to denounce the practice become only like a small pot of ink that they may try to tip into the lake – it becomes barely noticeable.
Congratulations again to dorjeshugden.com I think you deserve it. A great reward for all your hard work.
Next mission: to remove all the shugden references from the Dalai lama’s website also!??
Carpenter
February 18, 2012
Wow, this is surprising, indeed, when I click on the link, it shows page not found, further to check on whether is the website error or not, I have click on other link and all got no problem except Dorje Shugden issue.
After the tone down comment re Shugden by HHDL and now shugden link in CTA page is gone, this is a clear sign that the ban of Dorje Shugden is slowly faded away. I have also tried to log in to http://www.antishugden.com several times, but it says page is not loading, not sure is my PC problem or the site is down.
From the consistency and spread of Dorje Shugden, I guess the CTA now has reconsidered the statement of Dorje Shugden. The fact is, regardless of what deity they believe / worship, the citizen is still the citizen, a country is depend on the people, projects, money contributions, investments, everything that the government wanted to do will depend on the people, but if the government is splitting up the people, how foolish it will be.
If the CTA is really removing this state of discrimination, Tibet will definitely grow and become a much better country. Can’t wait for Tibet to become a spiritually freedom for Buddhism.
Rihanna
February 18, 2012
This is a very positive news that topics on Shugden have been removed from CTA website. All of you who did this website should be commended for a job well done. There is so much contents here and I am sure has provided the much needed information to the CTA. Perhaps many on the decision makers board in CTA do not even know much about who Shugden really is and they just went along with the decision. I say this with conviction because when I first heard about the ban years ago, I was confused myself. I have been following this website and has provided me and my colleagues with a clear picture on this matter.
This new CTA administration has made a wise decision in correcting their misconception. Or so it seems. How can they be campaigning around the world to free tibet on grounds of freedom and democracy when they themselves do not walk the talk and surpress their own people on freedom of choice of spiritual practice?? Does not make one bit of sense to me!
Positive Change
February 18, 2012
I believe there is cause to rejoice… however, CTA’s stance is still rather “unclear”. They may have removed “incriminating evidence” towards their discriminatory positions and written stance on their website but that can be seen as purely a self defence game plan.
Having said that, it is very good that they are even considering taking this step. So perhaps the splilt between secular and spiritual can be attained even within the CTA? We will have to keep a close watch on this and perhaps some encouragement to CTA with this regard could be good (e.g. send them messages on their website or write in to let them know).
It is a positive step for sure and I know with the spread of Dorje Shudgen around the planet, the ban will indeed become a thing of the past… in fact, the ban would have “served its purpose” so to speak.
Keep up the good work the team behind dorjeshugden.com as I am sure all the rattling is indeed creating quite a ruckus now and it is just a matter of time… Thank you and I am sure everyone here in the forum will continue to contribute and share.
Tenzin Malgyur
February 18, 2012
This is incredible news. Thank you Namdrol for bringing this ray of light into my life which is looking so bleak at this moment. I would say that all the prayers and hopes of all the Shugden practitioners all over the world are being answered. To all the people everywhere who are working very hard to get the ban lifted, please carry on with your cause. This is proof all your hard work are bearing fruits. May the ban be lifted soon. Very soon.
brian
February 18, 2012
This sounds like a dream come true for every Dorje Shugden faithfuls! I consider maybe the pressure is just too much for CTA to “silently” remove the webpages. I guess this is also part of the pressence made by the new Prime Minister in power to come down and make his stance felt by finally setting religion should not be political.
This is just sooooooo good to know of! Finally there is hope for the discriminated and much bullied Dorje Shugden fans! I hope no more ill treatment from CTAs or pro HHDL supporters please!
diamond223
February 25, 2012
Great, great news for Dorje Shugden’s practitioners!!!
Anti Dorje Shugden’s topics have removed by CTA’s website! Which means that CTA has looked into these issue seriously. Reason for CTA to remove anti Dorje Shugden’s articles in the website because CTA has started to make research and found out in the past years what they accused Dorje Shugden is not true at all.
Thank you to Dr. Lobsang Sangye, you have brought hope to Dorje Shugden’s practitioners that the BAN will be lifted soon and in the near future the practitioners will be able to practice Dorje shugden openly without people putting them down.
abcd
March 13, 2012
i think there is a mistake, the reason you find “page not found” is a technical problem rather then delibrate act of removing content. when you can search list of article it means it’s actually there, else why not delete them all, the reason is links are just broken(technical problem only tech people will know these). I checked now and it’s all there. There are hundreds of page not found links which doesn’t content a single word of shugden. I think’s it’s like making mountain out of mole.
http://tibet.net/2008/06/05/his-holiness-the-dalai-lamas-advice-concerning-dolgyal/
Diamond Girl
April 1, 2012
It is shameful that these unethical articles are back up again. WHY? Why regress? SHAME! Just when there was hope that the CTA could differentiate between secular business and religious interference, they fall backwards. How very ridiculous! This kind of regression just makes me and so many others lose faith that there can be hope with the CTA. How can a government, if this is the right word to describe, have such flipping minds? How will they ever win their country back? Read more on how people feel about this nonsense:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1837.0